OT Passengers On Pennsylvania Train Watch Woman Get Raped, Do Nothing

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Tyrant of Ants said:
I had a close friend that I completely broke friendship with after we found out he was regularly physically abusive to his wife. Dude hid it really well for years, until one day it got so bad that his wife had to call the police and told them of his history of violence towards her. Only dirtbags hit women and children.
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couldnt agree more.

For me its not even a thought to put my life at risk to intervene seeing something like that.
When one witnesses thier mother running naked out to and down the street, being chased by a naked step father with a bat at 2am, it can stick with you.

As a 9 year old i was helpless. As an adult i will never not help.

my only fear is my anger towards the man makes me do worse than is needed to stop the situation.
That fear would never stop me from interfering though. But the rage i have felt, would feel, i know i could go red if dude is not 100% compliant when i intervene, and believes he is within his rights to commit such acts.

Worked up a bit now just thinking about things in detail. Lol.
If there is anything ill swing hastily for, Its to protect an innocent during an attack.

animals, women, chidren, elderly… attacks on these people/living things, get the blood pumping in me like little else.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's not hard to hurt a guy who is in the process of raping somebody. Just kick him in the head... Hit him with whatever you have.
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Preferably, apply a chokehold and let him take a quick nap. I once soccer kicked a dude in the head. At that moment dude definitely deserved to get his ass beaten badly, but I regretted putting him in the hospital for two months.

Natebishop3 said:
I have to say it..... every one of the situations in this thread would have been stopped by someone with a gun.
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Maybe. But for sure @EL PRESIDENTE's katana wielding skills would've saved the day!
 
Natebishop3 said:
I have to say it..... every one of the situations in this thread would have been stopped by someone with a gun.

Chris wouldn't have been stabbed. He would have maybe had to shoot a guy, but he wouldn't have been stabbed.

The lady above would not have been raped.

The people on that MAX train would not have been killed.

A responsible gun owner who is legally carrying could have prevented all of those stories from happening. With that said, I have had a concealed carry license but I did not really enjoy carrying. I don't like the potential for things to go badly in a different direction. But had there been someone carrying in those situations, it's very possible they could have gone another way.
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It would be nice if one of our options were to only arm good responsible people. Every situation also becomes expontially worse when the bad guy in the story has the gun, even if the good guy gets a gun also.
 
donkiez said:
It would be nice if one of our options were to only arm good responsible people. Every situation also becomes expontially worse when the bad guy in the story has the gun, even if the good guy gets a gun also.
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More guns usually spells more trouble. One only has to look at the Wild Wild West for an empirical example. Best to call the police unless you know you can avert a serious problem.
 
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donkiez said:
It would be nice if one of our options were to only arm good responsible people. Every situation also becomes expontially worse when the bad guy in the story has the gun, even if the good guy gets a gun also.
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stricter screening of gun license applicants.
However, freedoms and rights always come with a downside.
Porn is the inevitable byproduct of freedom of press. Racist rallies are the inevitable byproduct of freedom of speech.
mass shootings and murder with firearms is the inevitable byproduct of the right to bare arms.

This right was created so the people have the ability to defend and rise up against a tyrannical government. Having just declared freedom from an overwhelming British suppression of the people, where their citizens were unable to take up arms against thier rulers back home, this was felt as an unequivocal necessity to ensure the people never lost such abilities again.

Without this right, a civil rebellion can never take place if our government turns on us.

there are millions of quality gun owners in this country we never hear about. If aNd when the time comes, we will regret taking their guns away because of some lunatics.

guns don't kill people. People kill people. Taking guns aWay from legal owners, diminishes guns owned by the good people while the bad people still have them.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I have to say it..... every one of the situations in this thread would have been stopped by someone with a gun.

Chris wouldn't have been stabbed. He would have maybe had to shoot a guy, but he wouldn't have been stabbed.

The lady above would not have been raped.

The people on that MAX train would not have been killed.

A responsible gun owner who is legally carrying could have prevented all of those stories from happening. With that said, I have had a concealed carry license but I did not really enjoy carrying. I don't like the potential for things to go badly in a different direction. But had there been someone carrying in those situations, it's very possible they could have gone another way.
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Agree 100%
 
donkiez said:
It would be nice if one of our options were to only arm good responsible people. Every situation also becomes expontially worse when the bad guy in the story has the gun, even if the good guy gets a gun also.
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We do have that option. And we could institute it tomorrow.

Make it a felony to sell, or in any way provide a gun to anybody who has proven not be good or responsible enough to be armed. And anybody who cannot prove it.

You would prove it by marking the ID (drivers license, state ID, passport... Whatever official ID they have) of every person deemed to be unfit.

So currently that would exclude felons and some other people.

If you are found to have supplied one of these people with a weapon you get your very own ID weapons restriction (as well as a felony and possibly jail time).

Every state already has this capability. There is no database of gun owners, which is a huge point of contention for gun rights advocates and the NRA, and you no longer have to fill out background checks or rely on a potentially flawed background check system.
 
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crandc said:
A possibility none of you are going to like is that there were men who did nothing because they were enjoying it. I am not one of those who say all porn is rape but there is a sizable genre of rape born and it wouldn't exist if men didn't get off watching women be violated.
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It's a good point, but I have trouble with believing that. Maybe fewer than 10%. I'd like to think closer to 1% might have enjoyed it more than they wanted it to stop.

I don't think most men have the rape kink.

I have to think most of them were just cowards.
 
Natebishop3 said:
But that doesn’t stop it from happening and in Portland the cops might not respond for an hour.
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Portland or many other cities.

20 years ago it would take police 30 minutes to get to Hogan road just outside of Gresham.

Police aren't here to prevent crime. They are here to document it after the fact.
 
Chris Craig said:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/riders-watched-woman-raped-septa-153600568.html

A 35-year-old man in Pennsylvania is facing rape and assault charges after a woman was sexually assaulted on board a public transit train Wednesday night as riders witnessed the attack but did not intervene, authorities said on Friday.

The woman was assaulted at around 11 p.m. while riding the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) Market-Frankford line towards the town of Upper Darby.

"The assault was observed by a SEPTA employee, who called 911, enabling SEPTA officers to respond immediately and apprehend the suspect in the act," Andrew Busch, a SEPTA spokesperson, said in a statement.

SEPTA officers arrested the man, later identified as 35-year-old Fiston Ngoy, according to Upper Darby Police Superintendent Timothy Bernhardt.

Surveillance video captured the entirety of the assault, giving investigators enough evidence to charge Ngoy with rape and assault, Bernhardt told NBC Philadelphia.

The video also shows how riders, who also witnessed the attack, did nothing to help the woman being assaulted, according to Bernhardt.

"It's disturbing," he said. "I'm shocked, I have no words for it. I just can't imagine seeing what you were seeing through your own eyes and seeing what this woman was going through that no one would step in and help her."

What the fuck is wrong with people. They just stand there and watch a woman get raped? They should all be in jail.

I see that shit, I'm pulling the dude off the woman and beating his ass.
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Id be carrying and would have put the barrel to his head.
 
My pessimistic feeling about humanity is that people would rather watch a tragedy unfold than step out of the anonymity of a crowd to draw attention to themselves and do something. Not everyone, of course, but the average person, man or woman. The Japanese have a (rather harsh) saying regarding this: the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. I think there's an element of that feeling to human nature and consequently, we also have heavy social conditioning in that regard.

I think there's also pretty heavy social conditioning for people to "mind their own business" because "you don't know every facet of situations you see in public."
 
Chris Craig said:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/riders-watched-woman-raped-septa-153600568.html

A 35-year-old man in Pennsylvania is facing rape and assault charges after a woman was sexually assaulted on board a public transit train Wednesday night as riders witnessed the attack but did not intervene, authorities said on Friday.

The woman was assaulted at around 11 p.m. while riding the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) Market-Frankford line towards the town of Upper Darby.

"The assault was observed by a SEPTA employee, who called 911, enabling SEPTA officers to respond immediately and apprehend the suspect in the act," Andrew Busch, a SEPTA spokesperson, said in a statement.

SEPTA officers arrested the man, later identified as 35-year-old Fiston Ngoy, according to Upper Darby Police Superintendent Timothy Bernhardt.

Surveillance video captured the entirety of the assault, giving investigators enough evidence to charge Ngoy with rape and assault, Bernhardt told NBC Philadelphia.

The video also shows how riders, who also witnessed the attack, did nothing to help the woman being assaulted, according to Bernhardt.

"It's disturbing," he said. "I'm shocked, I have no words for it. I just can't imagine seeing what you were seeing through your own eyes and seeing what this woman was going through that no one would step in and help her."

What the fuck is wrong with people. They just stand there and watch a woman get raped? They should all be in jail.

I see that shit, I'm pulling the dude off the woman and beating his ass.
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wtf that's awful.

i went to school in philly and that was the very same train line i used to avoid (mostly cuz i didnt wanna pay the $2). used to walk home from my lab at 10 at night in the ghetto instead of taking the train-- was super shady.
 
My daughters are all trained to use a hand gun and long guns and the have permits. Guaranteed if any if them were on that train or wherever they would have acted ,this is exactly why they wanted to be well trained.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
I have to say it..... every one of the situations in this thread would have been stopped by someone with a gun.

Chris wouldn't have been stabbed. He would have maybe had to shoot a guy, but he wouldn't have been stabbed.

The lady above would not have been raped.

The people on that MAX train would not have been killed.

A responsible gun owner who is legally carrying could have prevented all of those stories from happening. With that said, I have had a concealed carry license but I did not really enjoy carrying. I don't like the potential for things to go badly in a different direction. But had there been someone carrying in those situations, it's very possible they could have gone another way.
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But what if the thug was carrying a gun?

If you stopped them with lethal force, chances are YOU would be arrested.

These days, in this climate, its best to let people be if it doesn't affect you directly. Walkaway.

Also, how far can vigilante justice be taken? Should they subdue them? Would anyone care if this guy was murdered by people intervening? I'm sure he wouldn't be missed.
 
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illmatic99 said:
wtf that's awful.

i went to school in philly and that was the very same train line i used to avoid (mostly cuz i didnt wanna pay the $2). used to walk home from my lab at 10 at night in the ghetto instead of taking the train-- was super shady.
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If the train was shady itself, the riders probably are shady too.
 
Something *kinda* similar (vigilante justice) happened out here in LA recently. Some guy tried to run everyone over at a bar he got 86'd from. he crashed, they dragged him out of his car and straight up murdered him.

https://abc7.com/hawthorne-driver-beaten-to-death-driving-on-sidewalk-vigil/11129781/

Honestly, I thought it was awesome they beat this guy to death. But now the cops are out looking for the guys who enacted infinite justice.

Problem is, if you are trying to stop a guy raping a girl, its so easy to murder that person since its justified and will do society a favor.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
But what if the thug was carrying a gun?

If you stopped them with lethal force, chances are YOU would be arrested.

These days, in this climate, its best to let people be if it doesn't affect you directly. Walkaway.

Also, how far can vigilante justice be taken? Should they subdue them? Would anyone care if this guy was murdered by people intervening? I'm sure he wouldn't be missed.
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Incapacitate and subdue is sufficient
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Something *kinda* similar (vigilante justice) happened out here in LA recently. Some guy tried to run everyone over at a bar he got 86'd from. he crashed, they dragged him out of his car and straight up murdered him.

https://abc7.com/hawthorne-driver-beaten-to-death-driving-on-sidewalk-vigil/11129781/

Honestly, I thought it was awesome they beat this guy to death. But now the cops are out looking for the guys who enacted infinite justice.

Problem is, if you are trying to stop a guy raping a girl, its so easy to murder that person since its justified and will do society a favor.
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He did try to kill them first

Still, they took it to far.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Something *kinda* similar (vigilante justice) happened out here in LA recently. Some guy tried to run everyone over at a bar he got 86'd from. he crashed, they dragged him out of his car and straight up murdered him.

https://abc7.com/hawthorne-driver-beaten-to-death-driving-on-sidewalk-vigil/11129781/

Honestly, I thought it was awesome they beat this guy to death. But now the cops are out looking for the guys who enacted infinite justice.

Problem is, if you are trying to stop a guy raping a girl, its so easy to murder that person since its justified and will do society a favor.
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As I always like to say, sometimes you need a little street justice to set things right.
 
Minstrel said:
My pessimistic feeling about humanity is that people would rather watch a tragedy unfold than step out of the anonymity of a crowd to draw attention to themselves and do something. Not everyone, of course, but the average person, man or woman. The Japanese have a (rather harsh) saying regarding this: the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. I think there's an element of that feeling to human nature and consequently, we also have heavy social conditioning in that regard.

I think there's also pretty heavy social conditioning for people to "mind their own business" because "you don't know every facet of situations you see in public."
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There’s definitely that because most of the time I think it is the smart thing to do to mind your own business. @Natebishop3 and @EL PRESIDENTE explained why it would be smart for them to avoid getting hurt rather than to save a stranger. I think it’s perfectly natural for a lot of people to feel this way. After all, our natural instinct is to avoid danger. But also, empathy is a very strong emotional response in some people, which drives them to put themselves at risk to save another person.

I suppose I’m the type that likes to mind my own business. But I’ve encountered situations when I felt a sort of sense of duty to do the right thing, even if it wasn’t necessarily smart of me to personally get involved. I believe under certain situations, your humanity requires you to do what’s best for the whole even at the expense of the individual.

One day a super AI will probably be able to give us an answer to do exactly the smart/right thing in every situation.
 
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A gun barrel at the back of the guys head would have immediately stopped the rape. Then wait for authorities.
If the guy wants to take a wounding bullet to the nuts or lower torso thats up to him.

Every civilization and culture, even if people are suppressed under tyranny, individuals have identified/and trained with some sort of weapon for self defense or deterrent.
This world and all the different cultures, is no different.
 
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crandc said:
A possibility none of you are going to like is that there were men who did nothing because they were enjoying it. I am not one of those who say all porn is rape but there is a sizable genre of rape born and it wouldn't exist if men didn't get off watching women be violated.
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Why do you always immediately go to the worst intentions for men?
 
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