Passion is dead
- Thread starter Nate Dogg
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ABM
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The way I figure, if one's outward actions don't match up with his/her internal beliefs/motivations (i.e. hypocrites), it becomes an integrity issue......in other words, a matter or condition of the (being true to the) heart itself. Harder for me to explain.
tlongII
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Eastoff
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jlprk
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Did you read the thread? His wife is lying to him that she's not over at her boyfriend's house. She won't have sex with her husband because she's satiated by her boyfriend. If he moves out or divorces her, he's stuck for enormous amounts of money. Treating her like a queen won't change things. It's the sex, not arguments, that is causing this. I frankly don't have a clue as to how he can emerge from this with any happiness.
It's not just you, there are several other posts here that are disconnected from reality. It's as if some of you copied and pasted standardized, noncustomized advice from somewhere.
ucatchtrout
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This is a complicated matter. Clearly they both need professional help here. There is a difference between keeping your mind set on a few positive things until help arrives and making a career of kissing ass. There are children here who will grow up in a broken home unless they both put on their big boy pants and go get some professional help. Keeping peace in the family until that happens is one of the few things than can help at this point. Dissecting this any further without the wifes side of the story, and on an internet message board is of no value.
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mook
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I have to admit I have a hard time understanding how he comes out of this in a month feeling good about this. My own advice may be too late to help at this point. Perhaps if he'd tried my "Erin's Day" technique instead of "Friends With Benefits" two years ago to spice things up, it'd be different. Maybe not.
I disagree that it's the sex causing this. There was something lacking in the relationship they tried fixing by FWB. It only seemed to compound the problem. Now she seems to be trying to fix it by hiding out at a friend's house.
I really feel bad for the kids in this. At this point if I were in his shoes I'd base every decision going forward only on what's truly good for them. Will they be happy if mommy and daddy aren't talking? Is it ok for them if mommy vanishes at times? Think about how they perceive things now, and how they'll perceive things a year or five years from now. If it seems likely it'll be just as hopeless then as it is now, it's time to do something. It's the responsibility of any good parent to do what they can to give the best lives possible to their kids.
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Hmm... very sad thing and I'm sure I don't have enough info to respond properly, but here's what I'd do:
1. Mail it in with the wife. She is gone, emotionally.
2. Figure out what you want now. Do you want sex? Do you want a woman who actually wants to spend time with you and/or has the same interests? Really think about what you want so you can figure out how to get there.
3. Exercise. Maybe you already do that, but try to get in better shape than whatever you are. It will make you feel better and it will give you more confidence (with women and everything).
4. Figure out how to disengage from her. Make sure that the kids are going to be taken care of one way or the other, of course, but you deserve more from your mate--and in your life--than you're getting now.
Ed O.
1. Mail it in with the wife. She is gone, emotionally.
2. Figure out what you want now. Do you want sex? Do you want a woman who actually wants to spend time with you and/or has the same interests? Really think about what you want so you can figure out how to get there.
3. Exercise. Maybe you already do that, but try to get in better shape than whatever you are. It will make you feel better and it will give you more confidence (with women and everything).
4. Figure out how to disengage from her. Make sure that the kids are going to be taken care of one way or the other, of course, but you deserve more from your mate--and in your life--than you're getting now.
Ed O.
ebott
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I concur
BlazerWookee
UNTILT THE DAMN PINWHEEL!
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Become the #1 golfer in the world. But for the love of God, don't go leaving a nine iron laying around where your wife can get her hands on it...
BTW, don't misinterpret my flippancy for callous disregard for your situation. I'm just trying to lighten the mood a little...
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ABM
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You're right, it was a generalization on my part. All things being equal, though, that is the essence of the individual needs.
That's based upon the notion that each loves the other. In this case...........
BlazerWookee
UNTILT THE DAMN PINWHEEL!
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jlprk
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Some posters give standardized advice and mention arguments being a problem. But he said nothing about any verbal conflict. I read him as saying that he is only now quietly beginning to realize that she's lying to him about her whereabouts. So, to the contrary--he needs to assert himself and argue.
Government dogma is that all that counts is the children. We must live our lives for our children (in order to ease the job of the legal system later spending money on them). Men must destroy our own lives because all that counts is the children's welfare (translation--this saves the government money by ordering child support payents, and saves the government day care costs by taxing men to support ex-wives through welfare). "All that counts is the children" really means that all that counts is saving the government money by having men subsidize their children being ripped away from them.
Love your kids, but not to your own detriment. They are capable of making just as much adjustment as you, and they should have to. (And fight to get custody of half of them and not pay her anything.)
(I got into this thread too much...maybe because I'm divorced...I'm done with it.)
TradeNurkicNow
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instead of "being intimate" you should try "fucking"
mook
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I don't think it has much to do with government. The two primary directives of any organism, from yeast to kangaroos to basketball bulletin board posters is to: a) Reproduce and b) Survive.
Looking out for your offspring so they can then successfully reproduce somewhere down the line is only natural.
I also disagree with any assumption that staying with a wife who is unresponsive or whatever is necessarily good for the kids. My own parents would have done a much better job raising me so many decades ago if they'd just divorced when it was clear it was a lousy marriage. (I'm not traumatized or anything--I just look at so much of it as a massively wasted opportunity for them to be happy. Them being happy would've made me happier.)
If you are loving your kids to your own detriment by staying in a bad marriage, you are lying to yourself. Kids are much better off with two happy and divorced parents than two parents who fight but live together.
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DaRizzle
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married people dont fuck....they fornicate
ABM
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No, non-married people fornicate, silly.
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Love without sacrifice is not love--it's convenience. If you love your kids only up to the "not to your own detriment" point, then you don't deserve to have them (IMO).
maxiep
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Eastoff
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and teach them that love only exists between parent and child, but not between logical adults? Teach them that logical adults cheat on each other, and put on falsities? You don't think children notice these things over time? That it's okay to lie about these things? You can still be a good parent and have a divorce. But you should try to avoid it.
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I never said anything about divorce. I talked about sacrifice, about putting your child's interests above your own. Whether or not a divorce is more or less harmful to the child is debateable; whether or not the child's good should be given primacy is not.
Eastoff
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Nate Dogg
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I marked the days on the calendar when we were intimate and it was about once a month. Then I had a hunch that it was getting worse after a year or so. We are separated now and now she doesn't even want me to touch her belly or side. So much for feelings for her towards me. What waste of 7 married years in my life.
P.S. Zagsfan.. You have any female friends that would like to date?
P.S. Zagsfan.. You have any female friends that would like to date?
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Natebishop3
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This is just my personal experience, but women you meet on the internet are crazy. All of them. Stay away from internet chicks.
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Obviously I'm late to the party and not as old as you bastards but just wanted to throw in that I'm sure Nate's biggest worry is if there's a divorce then that means a hell of a lot less time with the kids. I always wondered what it was like for my dad seeing me like two days a week for most of my childhood. That got less and less as I got older and by mid-late HS I saw him maybe twice a month. Its hard being divorced yet trying to stay in close proximity of the kids I imagine. At some point you have to move on with other jobs, relationships, etc. etc. But if the kid is with the mom 85% of the time then thats his home, all his friends are there, etc.
The psychology crap is hardly worth arguing over. Any way you slice it you can argue the kids are gonna be this or that. Most people I know whose parents were divorced (myself included) say that their childhood was riddled with parents arguing with one another or about one another constantly anyway. Getting divorced might help some issues but then it becomes custody, making decisions about schools, more money for child support. I'm pretty godamn sure most of the arguing becomes more about the parents being pissed off at one another anyway.
I was gonna say before that I think you're lying to yourself Nate. I see that now you've realized the intimate relationship you had is long dead. You're better than that anyway. Go out there and get some strange ass. Make sure you're over her though. Lord knows you oughta be by now.
I'm cracking a beer in your honor right now
.
The psychology crap is hardly worth arguing over. Any way you slice it you can argue the kids are gonna be this or that. Most people I know whose parents were divorced (myself included) say that their childhood was riddled with parents arguing with one another or about one another constantly anyway. Getting divorced might help some issues but then it becomes custody, making decisions about schools, more money for child support. I'm pretty godamn sure most of the arguing becomes more about the parents being pissed off at one another anyway.
I was gonna say before that I think you're lying to yourself Nate. I see that now you've realized the intimate relationship you had is long dead. You're better than that anyway. Go out there and get some strange ass. Make sure you're over her though. Lord knows you oughta be by now.
I'm cracking a beer in your honor right now
.
Sug
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http://www.portlandrelationshipcenter.com/relationship-issues
You should try these folks out, they are very good at what they do. They use a process called Imago, and it really does work. They take insurance, and they have several people available to work you guys in. Give it a go.
You should try these folks out, they are very good at what they do. They use a process called Imago, and it really does work. They take insurance, and they have several people available to work you guys in. Give it a go.
Nate Dogg
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She sent me a text msg today on my phone telling me to start packing up some boxes while I was at work. I txt msged her back saying it was disrespectul while at work and told her "whatever". She admitted later that she was PMS'in and didn't know that family members were coming over for Valentines dinner later. I cleared the kitchen counter and loaded up the dishes into the dishwasher before I left for work before this rant. She appologized to me on the phone that she went onto a rant because she was stressed that our son wasn't helping on cleaning up the living room. She was much nicer to me when I came home from work when her family members were in the house.
She seems to have outbursts one in a while but then doesn't give me credit when other things are taken care of.
I bet she will realize that I did a lots of stuff for the kids and the house when I move out eventually. I paid the bills and transfered over $$ for her share for electricity, comcast, etc. Shes not a heartless bitch but I had hoped that our bedroom behavior was more creative but then again she didn't make any attempts on trying things different.
She seems to have outbursts one in a while but then doesn't give me credit when other things are taken care of.
I bet she will realize that I did a lots of stuff for the kids and the house when I move out eventually. I paid the bills and transfered over $$ for her share for electricity, comcast, etc. Shes not a heartless bitch but I had hoped that our bedroom behavior was more creative but then again she didn't make any attempts on trying things different.
Nate Dogg
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Thanks RUN BJM and others for your input.
I think in general her personality is one of those female types that just doesn't want to be publicly affectionate and doesn't recognize the small things that I did for her. Shes a big girl, over 200lbs and rarely does shopping for herself. She doesn't dress sexy unless shes going out with her female friends or a weekend trip with her female friends. I bought her undies from Victoria secret the last 4 years because she doesn't have the time for it and some other underwear online for her to dress sexy. She has never worn the top that I bought her 3 years ago or the underwear that I got for her. I got jealous and mad that she bought and wore some sexy underwear for a male friend of hers when we had our FWB agreement within the last year. However FWB is not what destroyed our relationship. I am just distraught that I bought theses outfits for her and she never wore them for me. I wonder now how long she really wanted to hold onto this relationship when I tried things when i appreciated her.
I think in general her personality is one of those female types that just doesn't want to be publicly affectionate and doesn't recognize the small things that I did for her. Shes a big girl, over 200lbs and rarely does shopping for herself. She doesn't dress sexy unless shes going out with her female friends or a weekend trip with her female friends. I bought her undies from Victoria secret the last 4 years because she doesn't have the time for it and some other underwear online for her to dress sexy. She has never worn the top that I bought her 3 years ago or the underwear that I got for her. I got jealous and mad that she bought and wore some sexy underwear for a male friend of hers when we had our FWB agreement within the last year. However FWB is not what destroyed our relationship. I am just distraught that I bought theses outfits for her and she never wore them for me. I wonder now how long she really wanted to hold onto this relationship when I tried things when i appreciated her.