Patty Mills

[STOMP]

What happened with Damon was pretty simple. In Toronto, he was one of the fastest players in the league. He came to Portland, lost half a step, and became a liability.

Damon came into the league playing on an expansion team in it's first year, they had very little talent. That everything they did offensively went through him combined with extended garbage time to produce some impressive individual stats. With no one playing D, his inability to play any didn't stand out.

When he came to Portland he had to integrate with other talented players. His tendency to pound the ball for 15 seconds and then call his own number no longer cut it. His lack of PG feel for setting guys up and inability to feed the post were liabilities. Of course when in crunchtime of meaningful games teams exploited his size/lack of D going at him relentlessly.

Patty Mills is 2" taller then DS with a good sized wingspan. We'll see how his game translates, but I'm hoping I'm not reminded of Damon... I didn't even touch on what a shitty "me first" attitude that bonehead displayed.

STOMP

 

[hasoos]

Damon came into the league playing on an expansion team in it's first year, they had very little talent. That everything they did offensively went through him combined with extended garbage time to produce some impressive individual stats. With no one playing D, his inability to play any didn't stand out.

When he came to Portland he had to integrate with other talented players. His tendency to pound the ball for 15 seconds and then call his own number no longer cut it. His lack of PG feel for setting guys up and inability to feed the post were liabilities. Of course when in crunchtime of meaningful games teams exploited his size/lack of D going at him relentlessly.

Patty Mills is 2" taller then DS with a good sized wingspan. We'll see how his game translates, but I'm hoping I'm not reminded of Damon... I didn't even touch on what a shitty "me first" attitude that bonehead displayed.

STOMP

The Morale of the story? Beware of guys that score a lot on bad teams. See "Harvey Grant" if you need more information.

 

[Kaydow]

Damon came into the league playing on an expansion team in it's first year, they had very little talent. That everything they did offensively went through him combined with extended garbage time to produce some impressive individual stats. With no one playing D, his inability to play any didn't stand out.

When he came to Portland he had to integrate with other talented players. His tendency to pound the ball for 15 seconds and then call his own number no longer cut it. His lack of PG feel for setting guys up and inability to feed the post were liabilities. Of course when in crunchtime of meaningful games teams exploited his size/lack of D going at him relentlessly.

Patty Mills is 2" taller then DS with a good sized wingspan. We'll see how his game translates, but I'm hoping I'm not reminded of Damon... I didn't even touch on what a shitty "me first" attitude that bonehead displayed.

STOMP

All Good Points Stomp.

Remember this game? During the Bulls 72 win season, they lost to Damon's Raptors. It was after this game MJ said Damon was going to be a great player for years to come.

[video=youtube;XJ-vJhRld9o]

 

[Eastoff]

I always thought that he couldn't take the pressure of getting traded back to his hometown to be "the guy" on winning team.

Atleast we don't have to worry about that with our Point Guards?

 

[THE HCP]

Saw him in the hotel lobby this morning picking out suits online. Must think he's going to be around for awhile. Good luck my indigenous friend!

 

[hasoos]

Atleast we don't have to worry about that with our Point Guards?

Didn't you hear? The Blazers are moving to Melbourne!

 

[Further]

Patty Mills is 2" taller then DS with a good sized wingspan. We'll see how his game translates, but I'm hoping I'm not reminded of Damon... I didn't even touch on what a shitty "me first" attitude that bonehead displayed.

STOMP

His wingspan is 6'2" according to draftexpress, not very good if you ask me. just some examples, Chris Paul has a WS of 6'4.25". Bayless who is laughed at as having short arms has a WS of 6'3.5". Flynn about the same hight has a WS of 6'4". Mills is not small like ty Lawson at 6'1", but it's close.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The Morale of the story? Beware of guys that score a lot on bad teams. See "Harvey Grant" if you need more information.

I'll see your Harvey Grant and raise you one Tony Campbell. Campbell is the ultimate example of a big-time-scorer-on-a-crappy-team. The guy went from averaging 6.2 PPG for the Lakers to 23.2 PPG for the expansion Timberwolves.

That's the problem with guys who play on crappy teams. Somebody has to score. So, the guy who's putting up the most points often looks better than he really is. Put him on a team with other scoring options and he suddenly doesn't look so good.

One potential way to tell the REAL value of a player scoring >20 PPG on a crappy team is to compare his PER to his PPG. If the former is significantly higher than the latter, it shows the guy is really not much more than a chucker on a bad team. For example the year Campbell averaged 23.2 PPG, his PER was only 17.1 - indicative of a player who scores a lot at an inefficient rate and doesn't do much else to help his team. Compare that to Brandon Roy's numbers from last season. He actually scored less than Campbell (22.6 PPG vs. 23.2 PPG), but had a much higher PER (24.0 vs. 17.1). That's the difference between a REAL talent like Brandon Roy and a stat padding wannabe like Tony Campbell.

In Damon's case his PER was also on the low side for a player averaging 20 and 9. His PER his 1st two seasons in Toronto was 16.7 and 18.1. While those numbers aren't bad for a young player, you have to discount them a little due to the fact that they were inflated by him being the leading scorer on a bad team. Once he was put on a good team with other scoring options, Damon's production was more in line with his talent. During his time in Portland, he was basically an average player (with PERs hovering around 15) with a max. contract.

BNM

 

[andalusian]

One potential way to tell the REAL value of a player scoring >20 PPG on a crappy team is to compare his PER to his PPG. If the former is significantly higher than the latter, it shows the guy is really not much more than a chucker on a bad team.

Good argument against Mr. Monta Ellis in his current quest for All-Star spot...

 

[Boob-No-More]

Good argument against Mr. Monta Ellis in his current quest for All-Star spot...

Yep, he's having a very Campbellesque season.

Monta Ellis 2009-10: 25.7 PPG, 17.2 PER, team winning percentage = 28%

Tony Campbell 1989-90: 23.2 PPG, 17.1 PER, team winning percentage = 27%

BNM

 

[mook]

Good argument against Mr. Monta Ellis in his current quest for All-Star spot...

Really nice point. It's not easy for a guard to average 25 ppg, shoot 47%, and yet have a PER of just 17.2.

Ellis seemed to score on us at will the other night, he played 47 minutes, he racked up 30 points, and yet he didn't really seem to dominate the game.

It's funny because in many ways Ellis is the anti-Damon. He doesn't shoot threes but he's got a really good midrange and close-in game. But as far as overall impact on winning....maybe it's not a bad comparison.

 

[STOMP]

His wingspan is 6'2" according to draftexpress, not very good if you ask me. just some examples, Chris Paul has a WS of 6'4.25". Bayless who is laughed at as having short arms has a WS of 6'3.5". Flynn about the same hight has a WS of 6'4". Mills is not small like ty Lawson at 6'1", but it's close.

dude is 5'11.25 tall. A plus 2.75" ape index (climber term comparing height and wingspan) is decent for any size. I'm not sure who is laughing at him, but Bayless has an ape index of plus 1.75". I think of him as having solid size for 1. Mills is only 2" less on standing reach which is probably the most telling dimensional measurement.

both in size and mentality, Damon brought a whole different level of small to the table

STOMP

 

[maxiep]

Simple prediction: the pain in the foot will cause him to change the way he runs/moves. In favoring that foot, he will injury a joint.

Way to go. If you always think the worst, you're never disappointed.

 

[maxiep]

That is one quick dude. I look forward to him developing for a couple of weeks until we have to send him back to Idaho.

 

[Further]

dude is 5'11.25 tall. A plus 2.75" ape index (climber term comparing height and wingspan) is decent for any size. I'm not sure who is laughing at him, but Bayless has an ape index of plus 1.75". I think of him as having solid size for 1. Mills is only 2" less on standing reach which is probably the most telling dimensional measurement.

both in size and mentality, Damon brought a whole different level of small to the table

STOMP

If you read what I wrote, people laugh at Bayless, not Mills, and my point is that Mills WS is still 1.5 inches shorter than Bayless. Sure, the relation between height and WS is better for Mills, but you can;t claim a good WS. He has slightly shorter WS then most 6' players, but the main point is that most 6' players don't have the WS to defend well. Mills might be the exception because his foot speed is so freakish, that he can stay in front of his man. But any way you slice it his WS is mediocre at best.

If the average PG is 6'2" with a WS of 6'5" (these are not legit stats, just made them up) then anything less than 6'5" WS is below average even if a player is 5'5" with a WS of 6'3"

 

[Nikolokolus]

His wingspan is 6'2" according to draftexpress, not very good if you ask me. just some examples, Chris Paul has a WS of 6'4.25". Bayless who is laughed at as having short arms has a WS of 6'3.5". Flynn about the same hight has a WS of 6'4". Mills is not small like ty Lawson at 6'1", but it's close.

Isn't Mills 5'11" exactly like Ty Lawson?

 

[Further]

Isn't Mills 5'11" exactly like Ty Lawson?

I meant that Mills WS is not as small as Ty Lawsons.

 

[Darkwebs]

Isn't Mills 5'11" exactly like Ty Lawson?

Yeah, according to DraftExpress, both Mills and Lawson are the same height without shoes: 5' 11.25"

Mills have a wider wingspan by 1.25 inches approxmiately.

 

[STOMP]

If you read what I wrote, people laugh at Bayless, not Mills, and my point is that Mills WS is still 1.5 inches shorter than Bayless.

I did read it right and then mentioned I don't know who is laughing at Bayless for his short arms. He's got more then enough size and length for his position IMO.

Sure, the relation between height and WS is better for Mills, but you can;t claim a good WS. He has slightly shorter WS then most 6' players, but the main point is that most 6' players don't have the WS to defend well. Mills might be the exception because his foot speed is so freakish, that he can stay in front of his man. But any way you slice it his WS is mediocre at best.

his size is at the low end of acceptable. He's a little shorter then you'd like for a PG, but a good sized wingspan makes up for some of that deficiency. I'd point to Chris Paul making 1st team All NBA D last year yet having a standing reach 2" shorter then Mills as an example of this.

STOMP

 

[hasoos]

I meant that Mills WS is not as small as Ty Lawsons.

You know that's nice and all, but really what matters is if they get it done while they are on the court. I never ever during a game sit there and think "You know I sure am glad this player has this wingspan."

 

[Further]

I did read it right and then mentioned I don't know who is laughing at Bayless for his short arms. He's got more then enough size and length for his position IMO.

his size is at the low end of acceptable. He's a little shorter then you'd like for a PG, but a good sized wingspan makes up for some of that deficiency. I'd point to Chris Paul making 1st team All NBA D last year yet having a standing reach 2" shorter then Mills as an example of this.

STOMP

I am thinking there is a measurement issue here. After all, Paul's WS is 2.25inches greater than Mills yet they are about the same height. My guess is that the standing reach figures are incorrect.

Once again, I would like to reiterate that I do not think that Mills is too small to play. I don't know yet. I would agree with you that he is "at the low end of acceptable".

As far as who is laughing at Bayless, perhaps I phrased that wrong, but there were many jabs at him early on for his T-rex/gator arms. I remember a thread when he was drafted where people were questioning if his arms were long enough to get the ball around people. Obviously, these people were exaggerating, but this was what I was referring to.

 

[LittleAlex]

I'll see your Harvey Grant and raise you one Tony Campbell. Campbell is the ultimate example of a big-time-scorer-on-a-crappy-team. The guy went from averaging 6.2 PPG for the Lakers to 23.2 PPG for the expansion Timberwolves.
BNM

The thing is Campbell never played on the Trailblazers while Harvey Grant did.

And he was horrible.

 

[hasoos]

The thing is Campbell never played on the Trailblazers while Harvey Grant did.

And he was horrible.

Yea and on top of it, because he was such a bad shot when he was here, the announcers would try to talk him up as a defender. A defender who got bitch slapped every night.

 

[mook]

Just when I think I spend too much time thinking about my team, a debate starts about the arm length of a second round Idaho Stampede call up third string point guard.

And I realize there are indeed those who have it worse.

 

[handiman]

I never ever during a game sit there and think "You know I sure am glad this player has this wingspan."

I do ... every time I watch Wade.

 

[Further]

I do ... every time I watch Wade.

Or when I watch Batum

 

[handiman]

Him, too.

 

[BBert]

Damon came into the league playing on an expansion team in it's first year, they had very little talent. That everything they did offensively went through him combined with extended garbage time to produce some impressive individual stats. With no one playing D, his inability to play any didn't stand out.

When he came to Portland he had to integrate with other talented players. His tendency to pound the ball for 15 seconds and then call his own number no longer cut it. His lack of PG feel for setting guys up and inability to feed the post were liabilities. Of course when in crunchtime of meaningful games teams exploited his size/lack of D going at him relentlessly.

Patty Mills is 2" taller then DS with a good sized wingspan. We'll see how his game translates, but I'm hoping I'm not reminded of Damon... I didn't even touch on what a shitty "me first" attitude that bonehead displayed.

STOMP

Truth.

 

[STOMP]

I am thinking there is a measurement issue here. After all, Paul's WS is 2.25inches greater than Mills yet they are about the same height. My guess is that the standing reach figures are incorrect.

possibly, but if anything is amiss with these measurements, it's just as likely to be the WS figures

btw... I've never seen Mills play so I'm making no projections about his game

As far as who is laughing at Bayless, perhaps I phrased that wrong, but there were many jabs at him early on for his T-rex/gator arms. I remember a thread when he was drafted where people were questioning if his arms were long enough to get the ball around people. Obviously, these people were exaggerating, but this was what I was referring to.

posters are often ridiculous. I can recall being laughed at for having the gall to suggest that Chris Paul would be better then Bassy and that Roy would be a solid starter. Anyone who is suggesting that Bayless doesn't have an NBA body is just wrong as the league is filled with productive guards with less height weight and length... and of course few possess his hops.

STOMP

 

[Further]

possibly, but if anything is amiss with these measurements, it's just as likely to be the WS figures

btw... I've never seen Mills play so I'm making no projections about his game

True that we don't know for sure, but I think it is more likely that it is the standing reach and not the wingspan that is incorrect just based on watching Paul play. It is obvious that he has long arms for his body. I have not gotten a chance to notice anything about arm length regarding Mills, but I have noticed it with Paul.

posters are often ridiculous. I can recall being laughed at for having the gall to suggest that Chris Paul would be better then Bassy and that Roy would be a solid starter. Anyone who is suggesting that Bayless doesn't have an NBA body is just wrong as the league is filled with productive guards with less height weight and length... and of course few possess his hops.

STOMP

True. We have all said stuff that was laughed at by others that proved to be correct, and most of us, myself included, has laughed at stuff others said that proved to be true. I wanted the Blazers to get Butler instead of the Wiz way back in the day, and people jumped down my throat that he was an end of the bench player. Conversely, I thought it ridiculous when people said that Noah would be a good center in the NBA.