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[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think of it as a big 2.5. CJ is 3/4ths of a star, Nurk is 3/4ths of a star. Dames a star. When they’re all healthy very good team!

 

[wizenheimer]

Nope it’s a Big 3.

wrong...that's just diluting the meaning

if you're going to talk about a "big 3" or a "big 2" they all should have at the least, been all-stars more than once

when you're talking players like Dame and Curry and Durant and Lebron and Jokic and Kawhi and Paul George and Harden and CP3 and Giannis, players like CJ and Nurk haven't earned the way into the conversation yet unless you're a homer. They aren't elite players and if they are then there are 50 or 60 elite players in the league and elite doesn't mean what it used to or what it should

If Portland actually had a big 3 then doubling and trapping Dame wouldn't work because the other two would pick up the slack and punish the defense, and Portland wouldn't have exited the playoffs on 3 straight sweeps. Portland only has a big 1

 

[tlongII]

Wait til Nurk. Big 3.

 

[blazerfan11]

wrong...that's just diluting the meaning

if you're going to talk about a "big 3" or a "big 2" they all should have at the least, been all-stars more than once

when you're talking players like Dame and Curry and Durant and Lebron and Jokic and Kawhi and Paul George and Harden and CP3 and Giannis, players like CJ and Nurk haven't earned the way into the conversation yet unless you're a homer. They aren't elite players and if they are then there are 50 or 60 elite players in the league and elite doesn't mean what it used to or what it should

If Portland actually had a big 3 then doubling and trapping Dame wouldn't work because the other two would pick up the slack and punish the defense, and Portland wouldn't have exited the playoffs on 3 straight sweeps. Portland only has a big 1

I don’t agree with that. Portland is just crappy at beating double teams. A guy will be open near the hoop and we’ll throw the ball laterally.

 

[SIeepwalker]

We have a Big 3, not a Big 2.

Meyers got traded, didn't you hear ?

 

[STOMP]

No way Collins goes at 5. He probably stays at 10. Maybe anywhere from 9 to 12.

Kuzma, john collins, de'aaron fox, jayson tatum, donovon mitchell off the top of my head easily get drafted before him.

Well I did say it's probably a little early to pass judgement on the guys from the 2017 draft, so I'm projecting what some of these young players will become. The one's who're a little older and have had bigger roles are easier to project then a one and done like Zach who has been behind established vets on a good team. That you'd list Kuzma as someone who "easily get drafted before him" made me laugh and realize that we will never find much common ground. KK is a tweener forward with some athleticism. Playing for young and awful Lakers teams, he's enjoyed big minutes right away. But both watching him play and digging in the numbers reveals he's been an okay at best player who didn't improve 1 iota in his 2nd year (red flag). I really value D from the frontcourt (which downgrades John Collins for me) and love Zach's shot blocking and ability to switch off 3-5. Not sure if you realize it but Zach even shot a higher percentage from deep last year then KK & is 2 1/2 years younger.

If I were a GM I'd want guys like you to be GMs too.

STOMP

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Well I did say it's probably a little early to pass judgement on the guys from the 2017 draft, so I'm projecting what some of these young players will become. The one's who're a little older and have had bigger roles are easier to project then a one and done like Zach who has been behind established vets on a good team. That you'd list Kuzma as someone who "easily get drafted before him" made me laugh and realize that we will never find much common ground. KK is a tweener forward with some athleticism. Playing for young and awful Lakers teams, he's enjoyed big minutes right away. But both watching him play and digging in the numbers reveals he's been an okay at best player who didn't improve 1 iota in his 2nd year (red flag). I really value D from the frontcourt (which downgrades John Collins for me) and love Zach's shot blocking and ability to switch off 3-5. Not sure if you realize it but Zach even shot a higher percentage from deep last year then KK & is 2 1/2 years younger.

If I were a GM I'd want guys like you to be GMs too.

STOMP

Yikes. Collins has potential, and I personally like him. But, no way he gets drafted over Kuzma if the draft was redone today. Not even close.

If you want to fall in love on potential, that's great. But, Kuzma can play in this league. There isn't really much to the "tweener" in today's NBA. Kuzma is only 2 years older btw.

 

[BonesJones]

Yikes. Collins has potential, and I personally like him. But, no way he gets drafted over Kuzma if the draft was redone today. Not even close.

If you want to fall in love on potential, that's great. But, Kuzma can play in this league. There isn't really much to the "tweener" in today's NBA. Kuzma is only 2 years older btw.

Kuzma isn't all that much better than Collins. Kuzma is extremely overhyped and not the guy you want playing off of stars.

Collins has a ton of room left to grow and Kuzma is probably what he's always going to be.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Kuzma isn't all that much better than Collins. Kuzma is extremely overhyped and not the guy you want playing off of stars.

Collins has a ton of room left to grow and Kuzma is probably what he's always going to be.

I'm not saying I disagree. But come on now. Kuzma would be picked before Collins if the draft was redone.

Could Collins improve and show more on the court? Yeah, and he has shown glimpses. We will get a better look next season.

Kuzma has shown more on the court so far. To say otherwise is banking on Collins potential. Which is a maybe.

I've banked on tons of players potential to see them never live up to it.

 

[Blazers Roy]

wrong...that's just diluting the meaning

if you're going to talk about a "big 3" or a "big 2" they all should have at the least, been all-stars more than once

when you're talking players like Dame and Curry and Durant and Lebron and Jokic and Kawhi and Paul George and Harden and CP3 and Giannis, players like CJ and Nurk haven't earned the way into the conversation yet unless you're a homer. They aren't elite players and if they are then there are 50 or 60 elite players in the league and elite doesn't mean what it used to or what it should

If Portland actually had a big 3 then doubling and trapping Dame wouldn't work because the other two would pick up the slack and punish the defense, and Portland wouldn't have exited the playoffs on 3 straight sweeps. Portland only has a big 1

I disagree.
Ray Allen and Chris Bosh were the original members of championship "big 3s" and they didn't play at an all-star level really. I don't remember them being any better than CJ now. Even Wade was carried by Lebron in some games.

The All-Star is horse shit, it doesn't mean much. Mike Conley deserved to be an all-star at least 3 or 4 times. There were times when he was at Lillard's level if you take both ends into account.

Also, trapping Dame works because teams could leave Harkless and Aminu open and our starting Center can't shoot 3s. CJ and Dame were equally bad in that Pelicans series. Dame had a bad series against GS as well, i don't pin the blame of his performance on his teammates and he wouldn't either.

I do agree we don't have a "big 3" per se. I just don't agree with your reasoning.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm not sure what you mean by "original members"...?

big-3's are not a new development. Wilt-West-Goodrich led the Lakers to 72 wins and the title. Russell-Havlicek-Jones won several. In the 80's there was Magic-Kareem-Worthy vs Bird-Mchale-Parrish, and both trios had incredible supporting casts. Jordan-Pippen were a big-2 good enough to win 6 titles especially with sidekicks like Grant and Rodman. Kobe-Shaq were another dominant big 2. The Spurs had Duncan-Parker-Manu

Bosh and Ray Allen were better than CJ and it's not close. For chrissakes, Bosh had been in 6 all-star games before he joined Miami, and Ray Allen had been in 7 before he joined the Celtics. Between the 2 of them they appeared in 21 all-star games and were on 4 all-NBA teams. Yeah, those guys played 3rd fiddle on those championship teams but they didn't leave their talent in the locker room

The Blazers Had a big 2 in Walton-Lucas when they won the championship, and a 3rd player, Lionel Hollins was better than CJ because he played both ends of the floor. The Blazer trio of Dexler-Porter-Williams were better than Portland's current trio and they never won a title

but it's pointless in getting bogged down in whether CJ belongs in those lists of names (he doesn't) because the main thing is every single one of those examples except maybe the last one had a big-2 much better than anything Portland has. Like I said, Portland has a big 1

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm not sure what you mean by "original members"...?

big-3's are not a new development. Wilt-West-Goodrich led the Lakers to 72 wins and the title. Russell-Havlicek-Jones won several. In the 80's there was Magic-Kareem-Worthy vs Bird-Mchale-Parrish, and both trios had incredible supporting casts. Jordan-Pippen were a big-2 good enough to win 6 titles especially with sidekicks like Grant and Rodman. Kobe-Shaq were another dominant big 2. The Spurs had Duncan-Parker-Manu

Bosh and Ray Allen were better than CJ and it's not close. For chrissakes, Bosh had been in 6 all-star games before he joined Miami, and Ray Allen had been in 7 before he joined the Celtics. Between the 2 of them they appeared in 21 all-star games and were on 4 all-NBA teams. Yeah, those guys played 3rd fiddle on those championship teams but they didn't leave their talent in the locker room

The Blazers Had a big 2 in Walton-Lucas when they won the championship, and a 3rd player, Lionel Hollins was better than CJ because he played both ends of the floor. The Blazer trio of Dexler-Porter-Williams were better than Portland's current trio and they never won a title

but it's pointless in getting bogged down in whether CJ belongs in those lists of names (he doesn't) because the main thing is every single one of those examples except maybe the last one had a big-2 much better than anything Portland has. Like I said, Portland has a big 1

I think before the Injury Nurk was the 2nd best player on the team, not CJ. I also dont think it was that close. He was turning into one of the better all around centers in the NBA. Most centers tend to be either good on one and end and not the other like Jokic or all they do is Rebound and play defense with their only offense being basically dunks. Nurkic was becoming a very good all-round center. That injury still just sucks...

 

[wizenheimer]

I think before the Injury Nurk was the 2nd best player on the team, not CJ. I also dont think it was that close. He was turning into one of the better all around centers in the NBA. Most centers tend to be either good on one and end and not the other like Jokic or all they do is Rebound and play defense with their only offense being basically dunks. Nurkic was becoming a very good all-round center. That injury still just sucks...

yeah I agree with that, and that it's not really close. Or wasn't until the injury

 

[STOMP]

Yikes. Collins has potential, and I personally like him. But, no way he gets drafted over Kuzma if the draft was redone today. Not even close.

If you want to fall in love on potential, that's great. But, Kuzma can play in this league. There isn't really much to the "tweener" in today's NBA. Kuzma is only 2 years older btw.

I said 2 1/2 years older... to be more precise, 2 years and 4 months. So sorry. Kuzma shot 30% from 3 last year, which frankly sucks for any forward in today's NBA and thats especially so for one without a back to the basket game. If anything he regressed in his 2nd year, when he should be on a steep uptick... like Collins. He can play in this league (obviously so can Collins), but his ceiling seems to be as a decent backup. A PER of 15 is the mean for an average NBA player, Kuzma's two seasons of extended garbage time stat stuffing with pathetic Lakers squads resulted in PERs of 14.2 and then 14.0 and his defense is equally meh. I'll take Collins all day as the promise of the bigger, longer, much younger, better shooting, shotblocker is better then someone who's apparently peaked at almost mediocre. Whats his calling card? It's definitely not D. It's not shooting. He's not a playmaker. Wheres the upside? You can go back to his predraft and see he's mediocre as an NBA athlete. I'd definitely take him over Biggie (Swanigan), but over a young 4/5 who's shown promise on both ends of the floor? & Please give me another big laugh and pretend to speak for what NBA GMs would do on a redraft. Say it even more emphatically this time for extra chuckles. If I'm selecting in this redraft, no way mediocre Kyle goes in the top 10. None chance.

STOMP

 

[SlyPokerCat]

I said 2 1/2 years older... to be more precise, 2 years and 4 months. So sorry. Kuzma shot 30% from 3 last year, which frankly sucks for any forward in today's NBA and thats especially so for one without a back to the basket game. If anything he regressed in his 2nd year, when he should be on a steep uptick... like Collins. He can play in this league (obviously so can Collins), but his ceiling seems to be as a decent backup. A PER of 15 is the mean for an average NBA player, Kuzma's two seasons of extended garbage time stat stuffing with pathetic Lakers squads resulted in PERs of 14.2 and then 14.0 and his defense is equally meh. I'll take Collins all day as the promise of the bigger, longer, much younger, better shooting, shotblocker is better then someone who's apparently peaked at almost mediocre. Whats his calling card? It's definitely not D. It's not shooting. He's not a playmaker. Wheres the upside? You can go back to his predraft and see he's mediocre as an NBA athlete. I'd definitely take him over Biggie (Swanigan), but over a young 4/5 who's shown promise on both ends of the floor? & Please give me another big laugh and pretend to speak for what NBA GMs would do on a redraft. Say it even more emphatically this time for extra chuckles. If I'm selecting in this redraft, no way mediocre Kyle goes in the top 10. None chance.

STOMP

Instead of going round and round with you because we will never agree I'll leave you with this. I hope you are right on Zach.

 

[BBert]

Yikes. Collins has potential, and I personally like him. But, no way he gets drafted over Kuzma if the draft was redone today. Not even close.

Good. That means we'd have a chance to draft him again

 

[Blazers Roy]

I'm not sure what you mean by "original members"...?

big-3's are not a new development. Wilt-West-Goodrich led the Lakers to 72 wins and the title. Russell-Havlicek-Jones won several. In the 80's there was Magic-Kareem-Worthy vs Bird-Mchale-Parrish, and both trios had incredible supporting casts. Jordan-Pippen were a big-2 good enough to win 6 titles especially with sidekicks like Grant and Rodman. Kobe-Shaq were another dominant big 2. The Spurs had Duncan-Parker-Manu

Bosh and Ray Allen were better than CJ and it's not close. For chrissakes, Bosh had been in 6 all-star games before he joined Miami, and Ray Allen had been in 7 before he joined the Celtics. Between the 2 of them they appeared in 21 all-star games and were on 4 all-NBA teams. Yeah, those guys played 3rd fiddle on those championship teams but they didn't leave their talent in the locker room

The Blazers Had a big 2 in Walton-Lucas when they won the championship, and a 3rd player, Lionel Hollins was better than CJ because he played both ends of the floor. The Blazer trio of Dexler-Porter-Williams were better than Portland's current trio and they never won a title

but it's pointless in getting bogged down in whether CJ belongs in those lists of names (he doesn't) because the main thing is every single one of those examples except maybe the last one had a big-2 much better than anything Portland has. Like I said, Portland has a big 1

I'm aware there were star studded teams in the past lol. I was obviously referring to this latest fad which started with the KG-Pierce-Allen trio.

You know that your argument is weak because you tell me about how Allen and Bosh played before they were part of a trio. Maybe you need to watch them again in those team's uniforms in order to see how they disappeared at times.
We're comparing CJ as part of a big 3 with players who recently won a championship as part of a big 3, that's where your argument began.

These are the players CJ has to compete with in order to get in the all-star game:
Paul George \Stephen Curry \Russell Westbrook (historic stat machine) \ James Harden\ Klay Thompson\ Damian Lillard \(Normally Cp3 is here as well). + Donovan Mitchell(24 ppg) \Devin Booker (26 ppg)\ Mike Conley (21 ppg) \Jrue Holiday(21 ppg) \ Buddy Hield (20 ppg)


Here are the players Allen had to compete with in order to get into the 2005 all-star game:
T-mac\ Kobe\ Manu \ Nash \Mike Bibby\Parker (16ppg).

Prime Allen was probably better than CJ, no arguments there. It's just silly to prove it with a popularity contest like the all star game. Allen was not as good in Boston as well so i don't see the point of looking at his stats when he was younger.

It's also worth noting that both Bosh and Allen didn't have to deal with the overpowered Warriors. Don't you think Nurk\CJ\Lillard could put up a fight against Kobe\Gasol\Odom or Dirk\Terry\Marion ??