Perfect time to blow it up

[HailBlazers]

I don't think you guys realize how hard it is to find someone like Dame. Both on the court and off it. He was just first team all nba and is loyal to the core and is on contract for 3 more years. Good luck finding and developing that in the draft.

/Thread

 

[illmatic99]

And after 5 years they are contenders, we haven’t been contenders in 17 years.

And if they had a shit load of good luck couldn’t you say Sac/Orl had a shit load of bad luck? Look at Phoenix, they are headed in right direction because of lottery too.

We've gone over this a million times before. What Philly did is out of dumb luck and stupidity as much as it was a legit team build.

They started blowing up the team in 2013 and ended up with Noel and MCW, while they could have had CJ and Giannis. Noel got hurt, so they tanked again and ended up with Embiid. Embiid got hurt so they ended up with Okafor (while they could have picked Porzingis). They then got nothing in return for two highly touted picks in Noel and Okafor, and tanked again to get Simmons. Simmons then gets hurt for a full season, forcing them to tank again only to land another bust in Fultz.

They fell ass backwards into the team they have. No way in hell that is repeatable.

 

[LayneStaley]

How are they contenders right now? Don't they need to prove a little something first?

They made it further in the playoffs this year than we have the past 4 years and they are a top 3 team in their conference(maybe top 2) going into next season. I’d say that makes them contenders to reach the finals.

 

[TBpup]

Unless Dame requests a trade and wants out, there is no way in hell I move him. Try like mad to actually build a roster that fits around him first before getting rid of him. Neil totally fucked us over.

And unfortunately, those last 5 words is why we even have to discuss a rebuild. I'd love to build around Dame but not sure how that is very possible or likely right now due to the financial mess Neil put this organization in. Ever year now seems like a waste of Dame's prime and it pains me to see that.

 

[LayneStaley]

I agree!! Dame is untouchable!

No one should be untouchable in a trade when you have only made it to the second round ONCE(due to injuries) in the past 5 years.

 

[Natebishop3]

I see a lot of the same people who stuck by LMA right up until his final decision, the same people who called a few of us crazy for wanting to trade him, are the same people who are willing to go down with this ship. I love Dame. He might be the best Blazer of all time. But this team is in the middle of the lake with its rudder stuck and it's spinning in circles.

We aren't going to sign any big free agents.

We aren't going to get a high enough draft pick to bring in another superstar.

Our only trade assets are Dame and CJ.

So what exactly is going to change in the next few years, other than Dame being more and more frustrated with the direction of the team? And while Dame is extremely loyal to the city, I have to think he's seeing the same things that we are. He has to be getting frustrated with the front office. I know I would be.

 

[rotary111]

No one should be untouchable in a trade when you have only made it to the second round ONCE(due to injuries) in the past 5 years.

Except Dame.

 

[LayneStaley]

And unfortunately, those last 5 words is why we even have to discuss a rebuild. I'd love to build around Dame but not sure how that is very possible or likely right now due to the financial mess Neil put this organization in. Ever year now seems like a waste of Dame's prime and it pains me to see that.

Let’s just keep him so he keeps us good enough to stay outta the lottery but not good enough to make it to the second round, then we can get nothing when his contract is up and he leaves cause he’s sick of not advancing past the first round. That’s what untouchable Dame is gonna lead to.....let the bashing begin.

 

[Strenuus]

Let’s just keep him so he keeps us good enough to stay outta the lottery but not good enough to make it to the second round, then we can get nothing when his contract is up and he leaves cause he’s sick of not advancing past the first round. That’s what untouchable Dame is gonna lead to.....let the bashing begin.

I'll ride it out.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I see a lot of the same people who stuck by LMA right up until his final decision, the same people who called a few of us crazy for wanting to trade him, are the same people who are willing to go down with this ship. I love Dame. He might be the best Blazer of all time. But this team is in the middle of the lake with its rudder stuck and it's spinning in circles.

We aren't going to sign any big free agents.

We aren't going to get a high enough draft pick to bring in another superstar.

Our only trade assets are Dame and CJ.

So what exactly is going to change in the next few years, other than Dame being more and more frustrated with the direction of the team? And while Dame is extremely loyal to the city, I have to think he's seeing the same things that we are. He has to be getting frustrated with the front office. I know I would be.

And as I said then too, whenever things don't go your way again, you'll call for whoever the cornerstone of the franchise to get traded again. This time its Lillard. and then after him it will be the next guy.

Calling to trade a guy in his prime who is first team all NBA, who wants to play in a small team market, loves Portland. Sure, he may get frustrated one day. But I'm willing to get to that point.

 

[Orion Bailey]

They made it further in the playoffs this year than we have the past 4 years and they are a top 3 team in their conference(maybe top 2) going into next season. I’d say that makes them contenders to reach the finals.

Okay, cause contenders to make the finals and contenders to win a ring are different things. Of course they are contenders in the East. The East now has two teams on the up and neither of them can compete with the top 2 teams in the west, so calling them a contender I find to be stretched quite thin.

 

[Natebishop3]

And as I said then too, whenever things don't go your way again, you'll call for whoever the cornerstone of the franchise to get traded again. This time its Lillard. and then after him it will be the next guy.

Calling to trade a guy in his prime who is first team all NBA, who wants to play in a small team market, loves Portland. Sure, he may get frustrated one day. But I'm willing to get to that point.

Because it's not about Dame. It's not about any one player. It's about the team. I want to win a championship. Period.

I suspect people will feel differently if we finish 8th again and get swept out of the first round by the Rockets, Warriors or Lakers.

A lot of Duck fans didn't want to get rid of Helrich, even though the writing was clearly on the wall. He wasn't recruiting well, and he was riding out the coattails of the Chip Kelly era. Once Mariota was gone, it was extremely obvious that he wasn't the right coach, and now the Ducks are trying to rebuild.

Something has to change with this team. Either fire Stotts, or Neil, or start rebuilding, but something has to change. It's mind boggling that this is basically the same damn team that we had a few years ago, and everyone else in the west has gotten better.

 

[dviss1]

Root for the franchise we trade Lillard to then, you are clearly not a Blazers fan if you prepend Lillard's career to Blazers success.

Your post can SUCK IT.

It eerily wreaks of bullshit. You don't get to tell people they're not true fans because of their opinion...

That's like someone they're not a real American...

 

[dviss1]

I ride or die with Dame Lillard, fuck a rebuild with him in his prime. If we drafted a scenario 14 million times with blowing it up and tanking, we won't get a player of Dame's caliber.

He is the best thing to happen to this franchise and the perfect player for this city. How people want to trade him is unfathomable for me. From his leadership, embracing of Portland, skills, and attitude, it just doesn't get any better for me.

This!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Because it's not about Dame. It's not about any one player. It's about the team. I want to win a championship. Period.

I suspect people will feel differently if we finish 8th again and get swept out of the first round by the Rockets, Warriors or Lakers.

A lot of Duck fans didn't want to get rid of Helrich, even though the writing was clearly on the wall. He wasn't recruiting well, and he was riding out the coattails of the Chip Kelly era. Once Mariota was gone, it was extremely obvious that he wasn't the right coach, and now the Ducks are trying to rebuild.

Something has to change with this team. Either fire Stotts, or Neil, or start rebuilding, but something has to change. It's mind boggling that this is basically the same damn team that we had a few years ago, and everyone else in the west has gotten better.

Trading Lillard is the last thing we should consider or call for. We blow it up AFTER we have exhausted all avenues.

1. Fire Olshey
2. Fire Stotts
3. Trade everyone we can
..
..
..
..
999999. Trade Lillard.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

It is certainly a conundrum... you have no hope of winning a title, you abhor mediocrity, and you can't stomach the thought of tanking. Is there a 4th option?

One thing that the crash and burn of the Bob Whitsitt era, combined with the Jailblazers period, showed me is that this team's front office will never do anything again that will risk the Moda Center not being filled to capacity (or close to). I mean, Paul Allen, when faced with actually losing money, filed bankruptcy on the Rose Garden and was looking to sell the team. The Roy/Oden/Aldridge years convinced him back to the fold, but be sure, he won't tolerate losing money again. He needs that arena filled every night. And he won't do that with a tanking squad. The easiest path to all of this are perpetual mediocrity, first round playoff exits, and teams that are exciting, scrappy underdogs that always give the appearance of "turning the corner" or "being one player away from taking the next step", but they never do. Once in a while, due to a stroke of draft luck or a favorable matchup, they might get to the 2nd round of the playoffs, but the true elite of the NBA always smack the Blazers back down to "their place", and the team never makes the necessary moves to capitalize. They simply count their money from the unexpected extra games' revenue, enjoy the PR boost from the long-suffering fanbase, and stay the course.

Yes, this team should tank. As built, they have no hope whatsoever of competing vs. the new-look Lakers, the historically dominant Warriors, and the win-at-all-costs Rockets. OKC, with their star power, won't be down for long, I doubt the NBA itself will allow it. The issue is, will the fans and the front office allow it? Will trading/losing fan favorites Lillard and McCollum cause irreparable damage to the fan's relationship to the team? Can the front office stomach losing money for 2-5 years while building a new team/culture from the ground up? My gut reaction is no, the team will not do it. Us Blazer fans are stuck with the never ending hype of a team that is always "on the cusp", but doomed to it's fate year after year.

If I were Dame and CJ, I'd demand out now while their value is still high.

 

[Natebishop3]

Trading Lillard is the last thing we should consider or call for. We blow it up AFTER we have exhausted all avenues.

1. Fire Olshey
2. Fire Stotts
3. Trade everyone we can
..
..
..
..
999999. Trade Lillard.

Okay, so obviously we're not firing any of those people this year. So let's say this year plays out, we finish 8th, get swept and fire Stotts. We bring in a new guy, he gets maybe a little better production... or maybe he doesn't..... so we fire Neil. Now we're two more years into this shit, no closer to a title, and Dame is 2 years older. He's in his final year. Now what? We hope that Dame signs an extension? We trade him for pennies on the dollar because he's going to be a free agent? What happens then?

 

[illmatic99]

It is certainly a conundrum... you have no hope of winning a title, you abhor mediocrity, and you can't stomach the thought of tanking. Is there a 4th option?

One thing that the crash and burn of the Bob Whitsitt era, combined with the Jailblazers period, showed me is that this team's front office will never do anything again that will risk the Moda Center not being filled to capacity (or close to). I mean, Paul Allen, when faced with actually losing money, filed bankruptcy on the Rose Garden and was looking to sell the team. The Roy/Oden/Aldridge years convinced him back to the fold, but be sure, he won't tolerate losing money again. He needs that arena filled every night. And he won't do that with a tanking squad. The easiest path to all of this are perpetual mediocrity, first round playoff exits, and teams that are exciting, scrappy underdogs that always give the appearance of "turning the corner" or "being one player away from taking the next step", but they never do. Once in a while, due to a stroke of draft luck or a favorable matchup, they might get to the 2nd round of the playoffs, but the true elite of the NBA always smack the Blazers back down to "their place", and the team never makes the necessary moves to capitalize. They simply count their money from the unexpected extra games' revenue, enjoy the PR boost from the long-suffering fanbase, and stay the course.

Yes, this team should tank. As built, they have no hope whatsoever of competing vs. the new-look Lakers, the historically dominant Warriors, and the win-at-all-costs Rockets. OKC, with their star power, won't be down for long, I doubt the NBA itself will allow it. The issue is, will the fans and the front office allow it? Will trading/losing fan favorites Lillard and McCollum cause irreparable damage to the fan's relationship to the team? Can the front office stomach losing money for 2-5 years while building a new team/culture from the ground up? My gut reaction is no, the team will not do it. Us Blazer fans are stuck with the never ending hype of a team that is always "on the cusp", but doomed to it's fate year after year.

If I were Dame and CJ, I'd demand out now while their value is still high.

I disagree with your notion that we need to tank and that Dame/CJ should want out. But the Paul Allen part is terrific insight. It goes unnoticed among the pro tank crowd.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Okay, so obviously we're not firing any of those people this year. So let's say this year plays out, we finish 8th, get swept and fire Stotts. We bring in a new guy, he gets maybe a little better production... or maybe he doesn't..... so we fire Neil. Now we're two more years into this shit, no closer to a title, and Dame is 2 years older. He's in his final year. Now what? We hope that Dame signs an extension? We trade him for pennies on the dollar because he's going to be a free agent? What happens then?

This is the same kind of thought that OKC would wither and die without KD. Now they have Paul George.

Things change all the time in the league. What is now, won't be the situation down the line. In 2 years, everyone's contracts come of the books outside of Dame/CJ

 

[BBert]

5 yrs and a shit load of luck.

An asteroid will strike earth before the Blazers experience the same string of events that the 76ers have had over the last few years.

 

[BBert]

Southern Oregon

That explains the accent.

 

[LeeRC]

A few years ago was the perfect time to rebuild around CJ and Dame. Imagine that we had Simmons, Tatum, or Jackson on this team. All this feel good BS about "playoff experience" or 'riding till the end' is just pride and hubris.

The truth is that it's still not too late to rebuild around CJ, Dame, and Nurk. You'll only risk Lillard being what D-Rob was to the Spurs when Duncan came in.

If the Blazers can't acquire a decent free agent, the team needs to trade away Aminu and Harkless for picks and sign D-League players. The Blazers were bad enough without Ed Davis that it can tank for 2-3 years to get a new star as the face of the franchise.

Then, once all the shitty contracts go up, the Blazers can use it on roleplayers to surround the team's "Big 4".

 

[BBert]

My idea of "tanking" is to move the contracts we don't want, not the ones we do want.

The contracts "I" want, are Dame/CJ/Nurk/Collins. Maybe Moe depending on which Moe we get this season. Also the cheap ones: Simons, Trent, WBIV.

The contracts we don't want are Turner, and Meyers if we're not going to play him. Maybe Aminu.

If it's me, I do whatever it takes to dump Turner (and Meyers), even if it sets us back this season. There has to be some team that will take Turner and Meyers off our hands. It's just a matter of making it worth their while.

 

[BBert]

My idea of "tanking" is to move the contracts we don't want, not the ones we do want.

The contracts "I" want, are Dame/CJ/Nurk/Collins. Maybe Moe depending on which Moe we get this season. Also the cheap ones: Simons, Trent, WBIV.

The contracts we don't want are Turner, and Meyers if we're not going to play him. Maybe Aminu.

If it's me, I do whatever it takes to dump Turner (and Meyers), even if it sets us back this season. There has to be some team that will take Turner and Meyers off our hands. It's just a matter of making it worth their while.

Edit: Out of that group I'm perfectly fine trading CJ, if it's for a needle mover at a different position. I'd even trade him for Kawhi, even though it sounds like he wants to play for the Evil Empire.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

If it's me, I do whatever it takes to dump Turner (and Meyers), even if it sets us back this season. There has to be some team that will take Turner and Meyers off our hands. It's just a matter of making it worth their while.

I think if it were that easy, it would have happened by now. Let's face it, those four "untouchable" players you mentioned are the only pieces of value the Blazers have right now. Other teams are going to want them to make the moves you seek. Catch-22.

 

[BBert]

I see a lot of the same people who stuck by LMA right up until his final decision, the same people who called a few of us crazy for wanting to trade him, are the same people who are willing to go down with this ship. I love Dame. He might be the best Blazer of all time. But this team is in the middle of the lake with its rudder stuck and it's spinning in circles.

We aren't going to sign any big free agents.

We aren't going to get a high enough draft pick to bring in another superstar.

Our only trade assets are Dame and CJ.

So what exactly is going to change in the next few years, other than Dame being more and more frustrated with the direction of the team? And while Dame is extremely loyal to the city, I have to think he's seeing the same things that we are. He has to be getting frustrated with the front office. I know I would be.

I was right there with you on trading Aldridge when the inside info indicated he was unhappy here two years before he left.

The difference is that Dame is not going to Aldridge us. If the day comes that Dame wants traded, I will support Dame's decision and wish him well, and I will support the Blazers trading him.

 

[Natebishop3]

This is the same kind of thought that OKC would wither and die without KD. Now they have Paul George.

Things change all the time in the league. What is now, won't be the situation down the line. In 2 years, everyone's contracts come of the books outside of Dame/CJ

OKC wouldn't have been able to trade for George if they hadn't moved one of their core pieces to acquire Oladipo and Sabonis. It's not like they just lucked into Paul George. Their GM made a significant move and then parlayed that move into George.

 

[illmatic99]

An asteroid will strike earth before the Blazers experience the same string of events that the 76ers have had over the last few years.

If they hit on one of those picks in Noel, MCW, Okafor, or had some injury luck, they would not be where they are now.

 

[Chris Craig]

OKC wouldn't have been able to trade for George if they hadn't moved one of their core pieces to acquire Oladipo and Sabonis. It's not like they just lucked into Paul George. Their GM made a significant move and then parlayed that move into George.

Yeah they did. They got lucky that Pritchard has a grudge against Portland

 

[oldfisherman]

This a no win situation.

If the decision is made to blow up the roster, it will be when Mr. Allen believes it is the best option.

Mr. Allen let the team get blown up once. The summer they traded Batum, and let LaMarsha, Rolo, and Wes walk away with nothing in return. 4 of our 5 starters gone.

When Mr. Allen believes it is time, my guess is he will blow up the front office before he blows up the roster. NO had his swing at rebuilding a blown up team, and got the roster into this mess.

Mr. Allen always wants his team in the playoffs. I do not believe he will go into full tank mode.