Pick a lane, Joe

[Phatguysrule]

If they put a smaller player out there then you are right, it won't work...... on defense. But the ones I listed I don't see as a problem. Most starting 4s don't have great handles. And the ones that do, no one is stopping anyway.

Chet does. He has skills, but it's not like he is blowing by people. I think a longer Ayton can guard him just as well as a shorter quicker PF. He won't shut him down, but who will?

Suggesting he can't guard Vanderbilt is hilarious. The dude takes about 5 shots a game...for a reason. If they want him to change their game plan where he takes more against us.....great. No one needs to rotate over to help. The guy has no handles. I think Ayton's mobility is similar to Towns.

It doesn't matter if they have handles. They are faster without the ball, too. So if they cut and get open Ayton's teammates will have to rotate to cover until Ayton can get there. If they can shoot and Ayton follows them out there, they can cut to the basket and they'll be dunking or Clingan will stop them and they'll have an easy dump to Clingan's man for a dunk.

This will make for a TON of extra effort and confusion on the defensive end. Ayton simply isn't quick enough to hang with 4s.

You want to make Vanderbilt a 15-20pt per game scorer? Having Ayton guard him will probably help in that goal. I don't think Ayton is as mobile as Towns.

Hey, if they try it and it works, great. I just don't think it will. And I hope they don't keep trying it once it doesn't work.

 

[Samuel]

Ayton played the 4 a lot in college.

so did RWIII. And played 4 in his final year with Boston, too.

 

[Hoopguru]

Ayton...Throughout his college career, he was used as a power forward instead of center; Dušan Ristić was Arizona's starting center instead. On December 9, 2017, Ayton recorded what was, at the time, a season-high 29 points and 18 rebounds in an 88–82 win over the Alabama Crimson Tide.

 

[beast blazer]

I have been watching a lot of Deandre Ayton highlights as of late. I didn't think he could play the 4 effectively but the more I watch him run the floor the more he reminds me of LMA. (Very good mid-rage shot)

If Robert Williams can stay healthy maybe we should experiment with him and Clingan at the center and start Ayton at the 4. (assuming we move Grant)

What is the worst that could happen......we end up tanking?

Yes, I've made the same comparison. Ayton actually has a better mid range shot than LA as well, and is no less athletic. Apparently that is too "2012" for many on this forum.

 

[wizenheimer]

Ayton has been in the NBA for 6 seasons. 82 games says he has never played a minute at PF in 6 seasons. BBREf, which is pretty liberal with their positional assignments says he played 10% of his minutes at PF in one season; that's it

but yeah, since the Blazers have 4 C's, and the two primary C's are drop-cover C's, let's fantasize that Ayton can change his stripes and gain lots of quickness

I see a list of PF's for other teams above that has some assumptions and omissions, mostly bad. One assumption that's bad is thinking that NBA teams don't know how to take advantage of a slow PF. And Ayton will be a slow PF. He's going to be screened all the time and he'll have to make decisions on screens and picks. His instinct will be drop coverage and if he's on the floor with Clingan that will create some good comedy. I guess it might help the tank though

 

[wizenheimer]

Yes, I've made the same comparison. Ayton actually has a better mid range shot than LA as well, and is no less athletic. Apparently that is too "2012" for many on this forum.

* in the 2012-13 season, 24% of shots in the NBA were from the 3pt line

* last year, 40% of shots were from the 3pt line

pretending that everything is about the same as it was 12-13 years ago is foolish

 

[beast blazer]

Ayton has been in the NBA for 6 seasons. 82 games says he has never played a minute at PF in 6 seasons. BBREf, which is pretty liberal with their positional assignments says he played 10% of his minutes at PF in one season; that's it

but yeah, since the Blazers have 4 C's, and the two primary C's are drop-cover C's, let's fantasize that Ayton can change his stripes and gain lots of quickness

I see a list of PF's for other teams above that has some assumptions and omissions, mostly bad. One assumption that's bad is thinking that NBA teams don't know how to take advantage of a slow PF. And Ayton will be a slow PF. He's going to be screened all the time and he'll have to make decisions on screens and picks. His instinct will be drop coverage and if he's on the floor with Clingan that will create some good comedy. I guess it might help the tank though

bleh bleh bleh bleh, you already magically know that it won't work, even though many teams have had success with two bigs. LA and Lopez aren't any different athletically or skillset than Ayton/Clingan.

There's a thing called putting your best players on the court.

 

[Pinwheel1]

* in the 2012-13 season, 24% of shots in the NBA were from the 3pt line

* last year, 40% of shots were from the 3pt line

pretending that everything is about the same as it was 12-13 years ago is foolish

Zig when others Zag.

 

[wizenheimer]

bleh bleh bleh bleh, you already magically know that it won't work, even though many teams have had success with two bigs. LA and Lopez aren't any different athletically or skillset than Ayton/Clingan.

don't forget Wilt and Luke Jackson in the 60's. Hakeem and Sampson in the 80's. Duncan and the Admiral in the 90's.

by the way, contrary to your assertion, I do not believe that Ayton is as quick or as reactive as LMA. I'm also skeptical that prime Aldridge would be anything but a C in today's NBA

 

[beast blazer]

* in the 2012-13 season, 24% of shots in the NBA were from the 3pt line

* last year, 40% of shots were from the 3pt line

pretending that everything is about the same as it was 12-13 years ago is foolish

That doesn't mean your PF has to shoot 3s. Ayton doesn't shoot 3s but he still has a 61.6 TS%.

A lot of the top PFs in the league are not really good 3pt shooters.

 

[wizenheimer]

Zig when others Zag.

you mean like zigging with undersized no-defense SG's when most of the NBA is zagging the other direction?

 

[HailBlazers]

I mean Ayton just has to face gaurd-em and who cares if they blow by to RWill/CKong.

 

[wizenheimer]

That doesn't mean your PF has to shoot 3s. Ayton doesn't shoot 3s but he still has a 61.6 TS%.

A lot of the top PFs in the league are not really good 3pt shooters.

I'm pretty sure that most of us skeptical about Ayton at PF are skeptical about his defense a lot more than his offense. I don't think Ayton will deal well with PF's and stretch-4's like Lebron, Durant, PG13, Kawhi, etc. that are masters of dribble-drive and using screens

by the way, 90% of Ayton's shots come within 16' of the hoop; most are in the paint. That's his wheelhouse (besides being allergic to contact). If Ayton is down in the low block, as he has been throughout his career, where is Clingan going to be...out near the 3pt line? That will be using him well won't it. For his career, his average shot distance has been 7.1 feet. That's deep in the paint. KAT's average shot distance has been 11.8 feet. Last year, Chet Holmgren's average shot distance was 12.8 feet

 

[blazerkor]

If Rob is healthy he can play both 4 and 5, he has that foot speed. So if it's Rob and Deandre or Rob and Donovan out there who really cares but Deandre and Donovan would be a disaster. Neither of those guys could even keep up with KAT on the defensive end. It's funny because Chauncey was talking about how Clingan can find success and he said we played a lot of drop coverage last year... and that's because that's where Deandre is most comfortable.

He's got quick feet for a C and really good north/south speed too but he's not a 4 in today's NBA. When I look at the list of front courts in the west that @Pinwheel1 compiled I don't know why he even posted it. The KAT/Gobert pairing is the only one that's even conceivably slow enough for Ayton/Clingan and although I doubt either of our guys are slower than Rudy... KAT would fuck either one of them up on the perimeter. His handle, his advantage in terms of speed (not huge but enough) and the combo of his shot and explosiveness would have him putting up huge numbers on Deandre.

I think we will see it this season and the only thing we'll see is Deandre getting exposed in space and other teams having a really hard time getting a board on either end when those two play together. The boards won't outweigh the shitty D though.

 

[blazerkor]

I'm pretty sure that most of us skeptical about Ayton at PF are skeptical about his defense a lot more than his offense. I don't think Ayton will deal well with PF's and stretch-4's like Lebron, Durant, PG13, Kawhi, etc. that are masters of dribble-drive and using screens

by the way, 90% of Ayton's shots come within 16' of the hoop; most are in the paint. That's his wheelhouse (besides being allergic to contact). If Ayton is down in the low block, as he has been throughout his career, where is Clingan going to be...out near the 3pt line? That will be using him well won't it. For his career, his average shot distance has been 7.1 feet. That's deep in the paint. KAT's average shot distance has been 11.8 feet. Last year, Chet Holmgren's average shot distance was 12.8 feet

Yeah with where DA gets his points and the fact that at least for now Clingan is going to be a garbage scorer (not that he won't score but he'll just get everything from cleaning up offensive glass and the dunker spot) I don't think spacing on offense would be a problem and we'd definitely have the advantage on the boards on both ends.

DA just isn't going to be able to handle the speed of the 4s in today's NBA. Him switching onto 4s here and there is one thing but if 4 is his primary position on defense, he'll have to be able to switch onto 3s here and there and always be trying to stay in front of 4s... sounds like a fucking nightmare to me but I think we'll see it and I hope I'm wrong.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

 

[tlongII]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

He’ll be in the rotation.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

When you can defend, set a solid screen, rebound, and pass as a center, you will be in the rotation.......if you can stay healthy.

 

[Foxx]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

You’re kidding right? Rebounds, blocks, screens, assists.. sorry we had a better option for bigs?

 

[Pinwheel1]

He's got quick feet for a C and really good north/south speed too but he's not a 4 in today's NBA. When I look at the list of front courts in the west that @Pinwheel1 compiled I don't know why he even posted it. The KAT/Gobert pairing is the only one that's even conceivably slow enough for Ayton/Clingan and although I doubt either of our guys are slower than Rudy... KAT would fuck either one of them up on the perimeter. His handle, his advantage in terms of speed (not huge but enough) and the combo of his shot and explosiveness would have him putting up huge numbers on Deandre.

I don't know, maybe for some basketball conversation about our team other than tank or not to tank, and when will GrAnt be traded.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

Terrible take.

 

[Foxx]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

Zach Edey, is that you?!

 

[inconceivable]

We're halfway through June and Grant still a Blazer. Smh

 

[Whyachi]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

I think Coach Billups will get him in a rotation. Probably very limited run at first, like Badji and Moses last season. Now if Ayton has to sit a few out, I could see Donovan starting the game. Maybe 25 minutes. Starting rookies is one of Cronin's favorite accomplishments.

 

[beast blazer]

I'm pretty sure that most of us skeptical about Ayton at PF are skeptical about his defense a lot more than his offense. I don't think Ayton will deal well with PF's and stretch-4's like Lebron, Durant, PG13, Kawhi, etc. that are masters of dribble-drive and using screens

by the way, 90% of Ayton's shots come within 16' of the hoop; most are in the paint. That's his wheelhouse (besides being allergic to contact). If Ayton is down in the low block, as he has been throughout his career, where is Clingan going to be...out near the 3pt line? That will be using him well won't it. For his career, his average shot distance has been 7.1 feet. That's deep in the paint. KAT's average shot distance has been 11.8 feet. Last year, Chet Holmgren's average shot distance was 12.8 feet

He doesn't have to be in just one location. He's got an elite mid range shot, and he'd have a nice size advantage over most PFs inside..

He has a 55% percentage from 16-3pt. That translates to a 36% 3pt shot, which is better than most PFs in the league.

You seem fixated on the idea that offense must be 1 center in the middle and 4 people hanging out on the 3pt line.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Will Clingan even be in the rotation as a rookie? He looks a long ways off from being a two way NBA player. I'd think if he improves a bit he could take Moses Brown spot as 3rd string or such, then get minutes late in the season when we have given up.

The only reason he wouldn't be in the rotation this year is if he gets pulled for making us win too much.

 

[illmatic99]

Kevin Pelton on the Lowe Post mentioned that Blazer management was trying to follow the"Houston model," and start winning now.

Then the Nike Hoop Summit and related practices happened in Portland at the PF where everyone realized how loaded the 2025 draft is even beyond Flagg. He thinks there was a distinct pivot to building for the future long term with an appetite for losing short term.

 

[Foxx]

Kevin Pelton on the Lowe Post mentioned that Blazer management was trying to follow the"Houston model," and start winning now.

Then the Nike Hoop Summit and related practices happened in Portland at the PF where everyone realized how loaded the 2025 draft is even beyond Flagg. He thinks there was a distinct pivot to building for the future long term with an appetite for losing short term.

I still make the argument we’re better off trying to acquire more 2025 lotto picks than to intentionally embrace a losing culture.

 

[illmatic99]

I still make the argument we’re better off trying to acquire more 2025 lotto picks than to intentionally embrace a losing culture.

I don't see other teams letting them go so easily.

 

[wizenheimer]

He doesn't have to be in just one location. He's got an elite mid range shot, and he'd have a nice size advantage over most PFs inside..

He has a 55% percentage from 16-3pt. That translates to a 36% 3pt shot, which is better than most PFs in the league.

You seem fixated on the idea that offense must be 1 center in the middle and 4 people hanging out on the 3pt line.

and you seem fixated on completely distorting things I've said in order to fit your arguments better

I'll make it easy for you to distort: I'm extremely skeptical that Clingan and Ayton can ever be an effective starting C & PF combo. I think they'd get boat-raced by better teams

I'm looking at the 4 conference finals teams:

* Boston's starting PF is Jayson Tatum. Their 2 C's are Horford and Porzingis; and Porzingis missed most of the playoffs so Boston went with Horford at the starting C. His average shot distance in the playoffs was 19 feet (Ayton 7.1). On Boston parked Horford out behind the 3 point line so the lane was open for all of the dribble-drives by Tatum, Brown, Jrue, and White

* Indiana went with 1 big in the playoffs, Myles Turner. He was also the primary big in the regular season. In that regular season his average shot distance was13.2 feet; in the playoffs it was 15.2 feet. Indiana's starting PF was Pascal Siakam; his backup was 6'8 Obi Toppin.

* Dallas went with 2 C's who are essentially the opposite of Ayton in Gafford and Lively. I don't believe they were ever on the floor at the same time (maybe a little?), even against Minny. Their Starting PF was PJ Washington; the backups were Derrick Jones and sometimes the often-injured Kleiber

* Minny is the example the fans of Ayton as the PF point at. But Ayton is not KAT; Clingan is not Gobert; and Simons is not Anthony Edwards. Blazers don't have a Jaden McDaniels either. And Dallas pretty easily beat Minny and their 90M triple towers with the budget pair of Gafford and Lively

obviously, looking at the top teams as templates for the current Blazer roster is mostly pointless. Portland is light years away from competing as a top team. The GM seems, IMO, to just be throwing darts at a board right now, with his off-hand. I wasn't happy Portland drafted Clingan at 7. He's a drop-cover C and I think those types of bigs have limitations. But now that's he's a Blazer...play him and see how far he can exceed those limitations. Start him at C; take that 7th pick out for a real test drive while the sticker is still on the window....and trade Ayton sooner rather than later