Plan C (When Utah Matches): Marvin Williams?

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Put me down as very high on Marvin Williams. He would be a definite upgrade and allow us to move other players, specifically Travis, to facilitate a PG upgrade.
 
maxiep said:
I like Marvin and think he still has serious upside. Unlike TO, he actually cares about defense. He can also understand offensive sets. I'd love to steal him from the Hawks, just as long as we move TO and possibly Webs.
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Webster will be back and he is better than Williams imo. We need his 3 pt shooting.
 
Marvin Williams is a better player than Outlaw...and if worst case, POR can put pressure on ATL to match a heavily incentivized contract to retain him, then they should...who are they missing out on by doing so? Glen Davis?
 
Blaze01 said:
Marvin Williams is a better player than Outlaw...and if worst case, POR can put pressure on ATL to match a heavily incentivized contract to retain him, then they should...who are they missing out on by doing so? Glen Davis?
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So Portlands big plan in the summer of 09' is simply to piss other NBA teams off by having to match ridiculous offers to their own players?


I like Davis too. If Hedo, Millsap, Childress, Williams, Hinrich, Ariza, Artest, Odom, MIller, Bibby or Sessions don't work out, he should be the guy
 
Mediocre Man said:
I like Davis too. If Hedo, Millsap, Childress, Williams, Hinrich, Ariza, Artest, Odom, MIller, Bibby or Sessions don't work out, he should be the guy
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Thankfully, Bibby has been re-signed by Atlanta. The only way Bibby "wouldn't have worked out" for us is if Portland had signed him.
 
Mediocre Man said:
So Portlands big plan in the summer of 09' is simply to piss other NBA teams off by having to match ridiculous offers to their own players?


I like Davis too. If Hedo, Millsap, Childress, Williams, Hinrich, Ariza, Artest, Odom, MIller, Bibby or Sessions don't work out, he should be the guy
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I just think KP is trying to improve his karma by doing favors for all of the restricted free agents out there.

Making offers that are large, but will still be matched, thereby giving them a big raise.

KP's giving ways really are outstanding.
 
B-Roy said:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/outlatr01.html

Outlaw

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima02.html

Williams

Too lazy to post individual stats, but they are very, very comparable. Per Min stats, ADV stats, raw stats...etc.
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Code: 
Rk            Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1      Travis Outlaw 2008-09  24 81  6 2246 6.2 13.6 .453 1.4 3.8 .377 2.8 3.9 .723 1.1 4.2 5.3 1.3 0.8 0.9 1.5 2.7 16.6
2    Marvin Williams 2008-09  22 61 59 2093 4.9 10.7 .458 0.9 2.7 .355 3.8 4.7 .806 1.9 4.7 6.6 1.4 1.0 0.7 1.2 2.2 14.5


Code: 
Rk            Player  Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS  WS
1      Travis Outlaw 2008-09  24 81 2246 15.1 .541 .505  3.8 14.6  9.1  6.3  1.2  2.0  8.9 22.0  111  109 2.9 2.1 5.0
2    Marvin Williams 2008-09  22 61 2093 16.0 .569 .502  6.2 15.2 10.7  6.3  1.5  1.4  8.6 18.2  117  108 3.8 2.2 6.0



Marvin is clearly better. His teams core more and give up less when he is on the floor. He shoots better from the field and the line, and gets to the line more often
 
Mediocre Man said:
So Portlands big plan in the summer of 09' is simply to piss other NBA teams off by having to match ridiculous offers to their own players?


I like Davis too. If Hedo, Millsap, Childress, Williams, Hinrich, Ariza, Artest, Odom, MIller, Bibby or Sessions don't work out, he should be the guy
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Forcing ATL to match Williams would open up the prospect of landing Childress.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Code: 
Rk            Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1      Travis Outlaw 2008-09  24 81  6 2246 6.2 13.6 .453 1.4 3.8 .377 2.8 3.9 .723 1.1 4.2 5.3 1.3 0.8 0.9 1.5 2.7 16.6
2    Marvin Williams 2008-09  22 61 59 2093 4.9 10.7 .458 0.9 2.7 .355 3.8 4.7 .806 1.9 4.7 6.6 1.4 1.0 0.7 1.2 2.2 14.5


Code: 
Rk            Player  Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS  WS
1      Travis Outlaw 2008-09  24 81 2246 15.1 .541 .505  3.8 14.6  9.1  6.3  1.2  2.0  8.9 22.0  111  109 2.9 2.1 5.0
2    Marvin Williams 2008-09  22 61 2093 16.0 .569 .502  6.2 15.2 10.7  6.3  1.5  1.4  8.6 18.2  117  108 3.8 2.2 6.0



Marvin is clearly better. His teams core more and give up less when he is on the floor. He shoots better from the field and the line, and gets to the line more often
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Not to mention that Williams is in a bad situation and he's still improving. TO has the green light and has capped out.
 
maxiep said:
Not every win has to be a home run. But how do we lose making an offer for Millsap or for Williams?
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You don't


Unless you wanted Bass, and the 7 day waiting period made you miss him?


I don't view either as a win or loss if we don't get them. If we did get one of them, then I think win.
 
Here's something to blow your mind...in "clutch" minutes Travis played 72% of the minutes available, had a "win%" of 60%, and the following stats (Marvin played 70%, and his win% was 61.8%):
By48min FG. FGA FG% eFG% Ast'd Blk'd FTM Pts
Outlaw 9.1 23.0 .397 .413 48% 3% 4.4 23.4
Marvin 4.4 7.5 .588 .765 80% 0% 5.3 16.8
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So to recap: In the two things where Travis is considered good for our team (shooting and clutch), he shoots worse than Marvin in FG% and eFG%. He's much, much, MUCH worse as a "clutch" player. Marvin also drew fouls at 150% the rate of Travis. Though he was a slightly worse ballhandler, and a slightly better playmaker. Anyone actually debating "defense" or "IQ"? I can't name a single thing Travis does better than Marvin, at two years older and 2 years more experience. And Marvin's starting, so that whole "playing against backups" thing actually works against Travis in this regard.

How is he not "much" better?
 
B-Roy said:
Too lazy to post individual stats, but they are very, very comparable. Per Min stats, ADV stats, raw stats...etc.
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They are comparable but Williams is the better player now, and once he's the same age as Outlaw in a couple of years, Williams will likely be far and away the better player. He's already the better defender and his toughness is greatly needed. I'd be on board for making him the next target.

The good thing about this Summer is we will add yet more quality players to our already solid core of quality players. It's unfortunate that certain fans don't see this.
 
tlongII said:
Webster will be back and he is better than Williams imo. We need his 3 pt shooting.
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You know I hope so, but Webster has never impressed me besides the pre season games right before he broke his foot. It's the prettiest jumper that never goes in when you need it to that I have ever seen.
 
hasoos said:
You know I hope so, but Webster has never impressed me besides the pre season games right before he broke his foot. It's the prettiest jumper that never goes in when you need it to that I have ever seen.
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The game Webster scored 24 points in 1 quarter convinced me he can be a big time player.
 
tlongII said:
The game Webster scored 24 points in 1 quarter convinced me he can be a big time player.
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That was fun, but considering the other 218 career games where he never came close to that and the fact that he's almost a year post injury and he's not even cleared to do anything more strenuous than walking and shooting set shots ... you're not the least bit concerned?
 
tlongII said:
The game Webster scored 24 points in 1 quarter convinced me he can be a big time player.
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Tony Delk once scored 53 points in one game! Clearly he can be a big-time player.

What's that? His career is over? Well, what a let-down.
 
Minstrel said:
Tony Delk once scored 53 points in one game! Clearly he can be a big-time player.

What's that? His career is over? Well, what a let-down.
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Tony Delk is a short shooting guard. No comparison at all to Webster.
 
Williams would be a decent signing, but even less team altering then Milsap.

If Portland signed Williams instead of Sessions I would be fairly disappointed.

Much like signing Milsap instead of Sessions.
 
LittleAlex said:
Williams would be a decent signing, but even less team altering then Milsap.

If Portland signed Williams instead of Sessions I would be fairly disappointed.

Much like signing Milsap instead of Sessions.
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Or Hedo, or Ariza, or Odom, or Miller, or every other FA they have has interest in over Sessions this off season.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Or Hedo, or Ariza, or Odom, or Miller, or every other FA they have has interest in over Sessions this off season.
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Yes, this is true.

I am probably just fixating on Sessons because I think Blake is terrible and needs to go in order for the team to get to the next level.

Sessions is the only available point guard that seems like a real upgrade over the long term.

And I am still mystified as to why Portland went after Milsap as a 9 million dollar backup when they keep talking about breaking even. Wouldn't those two things be at odds?
 
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