Please give up on Darren Collison

[Rastapopoulos]

Collison seems to be the new obsession for this board - Rudy Gay II.

Forget about him.

Why on earth would the Hornets give up on him? If Chris Paul comes back, he's unbelievably cheap insurance. If not, they need him.

The Hornets are rumored to be being sold. If not, they're more likely to get rid of Chris Paul (expensive) than Collison (dirt cheap). If they are, they're committed to winning and won't give up Collison unless it's for a genuinely useful player. But with Chris Paul's current status, either way they'll hold on to Collison at least until next season and probably longer.

We had our shot at Collison or Beaubois this past draft. Collison went (surprisingly) before our pick and might have been the guy we were targeting. Beaubois went WITH our pick (that we swapped with Dallas), so either we were okay with losing him (despite working him out a billion times) or we thought he would be available in the second round. Either way, the draft was our shot, and we didn't do it. It's too late now.

On the other hand, DJ Augustin might well be available!

 

[Nikolokolus]

This deserved its own thread?

 

[hasoos]

Why didn't you just post this in the thread on Collison already. All you are doing is stating your opinoin on the same exact topic that is open in the other thread.

 

[Wheels]

I dont see how it would be sensible to have 2 very good players at the same position. Especially when its a cash strapped organization. Lets say the team is being sold, unloading a contract like Posey, getting an insurance covered on like JPEC... that could make a difference. Collison isnt one who sells tickets CP3 is. That could also mean a lot to an interested buyer.

 

[RR7]

Before Collison it was Sessions, before Sessions it was Augustin, before Augustin it was Conley(and then wasn't, and then was after he was good again), before Conley it was...I dunno. Oh, Devin Harris. Throw in Calderon, Hinrich at various times. But Conley didn't do much, and all of a sudden, when the buy high option wasn't available(even though they were low ball offers), people lost interest. Then Augustin came out this season, adn didn't do much/was benched. And the offers for him, and demand and call for him is....where? BUY LOW. No. Let's wait until he strings together a goo dmonth,a nd try then. Quite a few wanted Sessions, and was discussed for the past year. His name didn't come up much this season. Still will on occasion when someone wants to move Rudy to Minnesota because of Rubio. Now Collison.
The constant always sems that people love these guys when they are performing well, but try to get them with crap offers(look, all teams have scouts. If we think Rudy sucks, you can't fault teams for not giving up their prized PG prospect for him). And when they perform poorly, nobody suggests buying low on them. Because then they've apparently been exposed or something, they see the flaws, and the desire is gone. If N.O. wanted JUST to mvoe salary with Collison, then a team with cap space is a much more likely option than adding someone WITH salary, like Joel. Even if it's covered by insurance, it still counts towards the LT. And IF they want talent, well, you can't sit here and call Rudy shit, and then expect him to get you someone's hot PG prospect.

All that being said, I'm not all that interested personally in Collison. I'd still like us to try for Conley, especially if they are looking to play Mayo potentially at the point. If Wall goes to NJ, wouldn't mind taking a look at Devin Harris. Would love for Detroit to either lose interest in Stuckey, or look to move long term salary(Rip) and move him to make it happen. But those are three long shots, and unlikely as well. I'm not overly concerned about needing a PG of the future on our team, though. Just doesn't seem as necessary as many make it to be, IMO.

 

[Tortimer]

I have to agree we are not going to get Collison. I liked him last year in the draft but we didn't get him. He has even played better then I thought he would. NO is not going to trade him but if they did they would want more then the Blazers would give them in trade. I also agree with RR7 somewhat. Guys like Augustin, Sessions etc are not that good and I'm not sure KP ever wanted them. Mostly posters from here and Olive. I still like Conley but would only want him if we keep Oden. The only way Harris would be available is if the Nets get the #1 pick and draft Wall. They would still want a lot for him in trade and we probably couldn't get him unless it was a 3 way trade and we gave up a lot. I don't think Bayless is that bad and is both a good SG and getting better as a PG. I like players that can raise their game in the playoffs and it seems like Bayless might be one.

 

[Minstrel]

Before Collison it was Sessions, before Sessions it was Augustin, before Augustin it was Conley(and then wasn't, and then was after he was good again), before Conley it was...I dunno. Oh, Devin Harris. Throw in Calderon, Hinrich at various times.
...
And when they perform poorly, nobody suggests buying low on them. Because then they've apparently been exposed or something, they see the flaws, and the desire is gone.

The problem with your comments is that you're connecting a lot of people who separately wanted different players into one single group who wanted them all.

For example, I always wanted Devin Harris and Ramon Sessions. I never wanted Augustin, Conley or Collison. I continue to want Harris and Sessions, exactly in the hopes that their stock is down and thus their price might be lower. I also think their price should be lower, because a down season matters. It's more information, and it dims their potential a bit. However, I think there are reasons why the current season isn't the best measure of their abilities: Devin Harris because he had some injuries and played with very little talent, which is more relevant for a point guard than any other position IMO, and Sessions because he was plugged into a triangle offense that he probably isn't ideal for.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The problem with your comments is that you're connecting a lot of people who separately wanted different players into one single group who wanted them all.

For example, I always wanted Devin Harris and Ramon Sessions. I never wanted Augustin, Conley or Collison. I continue to want Harris and Sessions, exactly in the hopes that their stock is down and thus their price might be lower. I also think their price should be lower, because a down season matters. It's more information, and it dims their potential a bit. However, I think there are reasons why the current season isn't the best measure of their abilities: Devin Harris because he had some injuries and played with very little talent, which is more relevant for a point guard than any other position IMO, and Sessions because he was plugged into a triangle offense that he probably isn't ideal for.

I'm in the same boat (except I actually wouldn't mind Collison). Sessions still seems like a decent target, especially because of how badly a pick and roll point guard without an outside jumper is in the triangle and it doesn't hurt that Minny is so undertalented at the wings and overloaded with young point guards and another waiting in Europe.

 

[RR7]

The only group I was tying everyone into was the Blazers board as a whole. The flavor of the month/year of the board. Obviously not everyone likes every single player on there. But you see a high amount of threads and posts begin with all of those players, in some succession or another. I guess it is more common to talk about someone performing well. It's just, in most people's off season plans, you see this, with a grab of the latest hot guy. I hardly see lists made, or topics started about, what we shoudl do is try to grab Harris while his value is down, or grab Sessions now, when they have no use for him, etc. Sessions wasn't mentioned much this season. But I am guessing if he had a 30-20 game in the last week, there'd be no less than 3 different topics within a week afterwards, and he'd be included in most people's plans.

I agree with you on harris. Never been a big fan of Sessions, personally. Not trying to call everyone out for just liking Collison, or saying every single poster has gone through every one of those PGS. Just seems that, in general, every 3-4 months, there is a new PG of the future that pops up, and a handful of peopl ewill jump on wanting him, and then that fire slowly burns. Less so, in cases like this, where he never had a chance to have poor outings, he finished high,a dn so it will be remembered during the offseason.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I still think he'd be a fairly good young guy to target. Packages involving our pick, Rudy, Bayless, and Pryzbilla's expiring (and insurance heavy) contract I think could help us land a good young PG personally.

We could save teams a lot of money potentially.

I would really like to go after either Conley or Collison. This year's shown that the team (and Roy) does perform better with an actual PG (and I would think an actual offense might help too), and I think Bayless won't really ever be one.

Not saying the other team would do any of these (but they all work or come very close financially)

Martell/Bayless/Pryzbilla (need filler) for Peja/Collison
saves them almost 9 million when you consider Pryzbilla contract

Rudy/Pryzbilla for Posey/Collison (need filler) -
saves them all of Posey's deal next year and more money.

Bayless/Webster for Posey/Collison


I personally like the idea of sending Rudy or Bayless to NY (along w/Pryz), Lee somewhere, and us getting Conley, Collison, etc.

 

[RR7]

Martell/Bayless/Pryzbilla (need filler) for Peja/Collison
saves them almost 9 million when you consider Pryzbilla contract

Rudy/Pryzbilla for Posey/Collison (need filler) -
saves them all of Posey's deal next year and more money.

Bayless/Webster for Posey/Collison


I personally like the idea of sending Rudy or Bayless to NY (along w/Pryz), Lee somewhere, and us getting Conley, Collison, etc.

9 million? How so? IF, and it's still an IF, insurance picks up Joel's deal, they still pay 20%. Martell and Bayless have contracts that go past this year, which Peja does not. The total salary going out for them is fairly close,(within a million or so) as a whole(4 years of Collison, 1 year of Peja) to (1 year of Joel, 3 years of Martell, 2 of Bayless). So they don't really save any money. And they lose out on more if Joel can play at all.

I'd prefer to not take on Posey, personally. He's done as a player, IMO. And it more amounts to paying Collison 7.5 and 8 a year the next two years as our backup PG.

But, I imagine other teams are just as sold on Collison as you are, there are quite a few teams with cap space. If the biggest goal for N.O. is saving money, then teams with cap space are going to hold alot mroe value than teams without(Us). If, say, the Clippers really likd the idea of bringing Collison back to LA, to learn under another UCLA PG(Davis), with their cap space, they can just trade Posey and Collison for nothng at all. Or Peterson adn Collison. That's a lot better financially than what we have to offer.

I don't see NY in any way taking on Joel's deal with their cap space. They paid two future firsts, and their pick from this past season(Hill) to get rid of Jeffries, who will make less than Joel. All that to just take back on joel for Rudy and Bayless? Can't see it.

 

[RoyToy]

Conleyconleyconleyconleyconleyconleyconleyconley

 

[LittleAlex]

Collison seems to be the new obsession for this board - Rudy Gay II.

Forget about him.

Why on earth would the Hornets give up on him? If Chris Paul comes back, he's unbelievably cheap insurance. If not, they need him.

The Hornets are rumored to be being sold. If not, they're more likely to get rid of Chris Paul (expensive) than Collison (dirt cheap). If they are, they're committed to winning and won't give up Collison unless it's for a genuinely useful player. But with Chris Paul's current status, either way they'll hold on to Collison at least until next season and probably longer.

We had our shot at Collison or Beaubois this past draft. Collison went (surprisingly) before our pick and might have been the guy we were targeting. Beaubois went WITH our pick (that we swapped with Dallas), so either we were okay with losing him (despite working him out a billion times) or we thought he would be available in the second round. Either way, the draft was our shot, and we didn't do it. It's too late now.

On the other hand, DJ Augustin might well be available!

DJ couldn't beat out Felton for playing time. Not sure he is even an NBA level player much less a valuable point guard prospect.