Poll o' the day: Rank the Oakland PGs

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Rank them best first: Payton, Kidd, Dame

  • Total voters
    33
Rastapopoulos

Rastapopoulos

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Best first.
Gary Payton: the OG. Couldn't shoot but defended like a motherfucker. All-time trash talker - didn't back down from MJ in the finals.
Jason Kidd: also taken #2 in the draft. Also couldn't shoot. Also a good defender, but may have been the best passer of his era. Dragged two mediocre Nets teams to the finals and finally got a ring with Dallas (where he started).
Dame: kind of the anti-Kidd. Definitely the best shooter or scorer of the three, and it's not close.
 
I went Lillard > Kidd > Payton.

Payton was one of my favorite players of the 1990s, but I decided to rank them based on whom I'd want in today's game and lack of shooting is just a killer these days. Rubio is a great defender and maybe the best passer of his generation and yet has settled in as a role-player because his lack of shooting has really killed the team offenses he's been a part of. Lillard's shooting is too valuable not to make him #1 here, and I put Kidd second because he did actually develop a late-career three-point stroke. That at least provides hope that if he came up today and was putting all his focus into developing a shot, he might be successful.
 
Minstrel said:
I went Lillard > Kidd > Payton.

Payton was one of my favorite players of the 1990s, but I decided to rank them based on whom I'd want in today's game and lack of shooting is just a killer these days. Rubio is a great defender and maybe the best passer of his generation and yet has settled in as a role-player because his lack of shooting has really killed the team offenses he's been a part of.
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Ranking five-player lineups by offensive rating, and setting the minutes to 200 minimum (to weed out noise) gets:
upload_2020-7-3_13-25-17.png
Rubio, Booker and Oubre are the only players to feature more than once in the top 6. (Nice to see that top one! Let's hope it wasn't all because of Ariza...)
 
Kidd's not getting much love here.
 

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BigGameDamian said:
Would Gary Payton be an All Star in today's NBA?
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I am a Oregon state fan so I love Gary Payton but I gotta admit he probably wouldn’t be an all star in today’s nba. I see him being like a glorified version of Patrick Beverly.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Would Dame score 25 a game with the glove on him?
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Different hand checking rules changed the game, which was done with intent to make it more “exciting”. Payton was great with the rules of his era. Dame is great in the current era. Not sure either would be able to switch eras and still have the same impact. Dame’s D would be pretty weak for Payton’s era, but he probably could adjust better than GP who just couldn’t shoot well enough for today’s game.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Ranking five-player lineups by offensive rating, and setting the minutes to 200 minimum (to weed out noise) gets:
View attachment 32298
Rubio, Booker and Oubre are the only players to feature more than once in the top 6. (Nice to see that top one! Let's hope it wasn't all because of Ariza...)
Click to expand...

200 minutes in a single season doesn't actually weed out much noise in using these types of team metrics to evaluate a given individual. That said, this is actually one of the rare seasons in Rubio's career where he's shooting a decent percentage from three, at .351.

I'm a fan of Rubio's. If he could shoot well, I think he'd be a perpetual All Star and maybe Hall of Famer. But I think as things stand, Lillard has much more positive impact on team success than Rubio. I think Kidd and Payton might end up in the Rubio neighborhood today, though Kidd had an advantage as a rebounder and, as I mentioned before, at least showed the hope that focused effort might have yielded a superior shot if he played today.
 
Minstrel said:
200 minutes in a single season doesn't actually weed out much noise in using these types of team metrics to evaluate a given individual. That said, this is actually one of the rare seasons in Rubio's career where he's shooting a decent percentage from three, at .351.

I'm a fan of Rubio's. If he could shoot well, I think he'd be a perpetual All Star and maybe Hall of Famer. But I think as things stand, Lillard has much more positive impact on team success than Rubio. I think Kidd and Payton might end up in the Rubio neighborhood today, though Kidd had an advantage as a rebounder and, as I mentioned before, at least showed the hope that focused effort might have yielded a superior shot if he played today.
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Of course Lillard > Rubio. That said, I think Rubio could be to some team what Iguodala was for the Warriors. I think he could actually do that for the Blazers. OKC has show that 3 PGs at once can be a winning combo, and Dame could play some off the ball next to Rubio. Here's hoping the Suns lowball him or are prepared to dump him because they want to move Booker to PG
 
If we're talking about 90's NBA I'd go Payton, Dame, Kidd. If it's today's NBA I'd go Dame, Kidd, Payton.
 
damianlillard said:
I am a Oregon state fan so I love Gary Payton but I gotta admit he probably wouldn’t be an all star in today’s nba. I see him being like a glorified version of Patrick Beverly.
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Only if Dame is a glorified Randolph Childress
 
Payton and Kidd were exceptionally good around the basket. Rubio simply has no consistent offense. That's a failure of a comparison, IMO.
 
Doubters can keep doubting. But Dame is a special talent. The best to ever wear the Trailblazers uniform IMO. But i've only been a fan since '77.
 
tykendo said:
Dame is a special talent. The best to ever wear the Trailblazers uniform IMO.
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iu
 
I went Kidd, Damian, GP. Kidd was an incredible passer. Might be the best I’ve ever seen. He also was a 9x all nba defense. He was a terrible shooter coming into the league and ended up top 10 all time in 3’s. He was also one of the most incredible college players ever - GP was right there with him. Kidd also had great size. Damian can’t come close defensively to either one of them.
 
Minstrel said:
I went Lillard > Kidd > Payton.

Payton was one of my favorite players of the 1990s, but I decided to rank them based on whom I'd want in today's game and lack of shooting is just a killer these days. Rubio is a great defender and maybe the best passer of his generation and yet has settled in as a role-player because his lack of shooting has really killed the team offenses he's been a part of. Lillard's shooting is too valuable not to make him #1 here, and I put Kidd second because he did actually develop a late-career three-point stroke. That at least provides hope that if he came up today and was putting all his focus into developing a shot, he might be successful.
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Rubio shot 35% from three this year. You're right about Kidd. In fact, is one of the most prolific three point shot makers in the history of the NBA.
 
Another thought. Kidd went to 3 NBA Finals while Gary Payton (who yes, went to one NBA Final) is known for choking in both the NBA Playoffs & the NCAA Tournament.
 
I chose payton first, then Dame.

then i went back and looked up Payton stats.

looks like i chose him for personal memories and not logical stats rankings.

i still put payton over Kidd for me though.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Another thought. Kidd went to 3 NBA Finals while Gary Payton (who yes, went to one NBA Final) is known for choking in both the NBA Playoffs & the NCAA Tournament.
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Didn't Payton go to three finals? Sonics, Lakers, Heat? Granted he was only really relevant in the first.
 
calvin natt said:
I went Kidd, Damian, GP. Kidd was an incredible passer. Might be the best I’ve ever seen. He also was a 9x all nba defense. He was a terrible shooter coming into the league and ended up top 10 all time in 3’s. He was also one of the most incredible college players ever - GP was right there with him. Kidd also had great size. Damian can’t come close defensively to either one of them.
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And Kidd and Payton don't come close offensively to Dame.
 
Dame's passing is very underrated. It's like he has eyes in the back of his head. Some of the crazing angles he hits with pinpoint accuracy are ridiculous. One of the best long cross court passers i've ever seen . But his scoring prowess is so great, many overlook that portion of his game. And he's shown that with better finishers, his assist totals have gone up. And i feel, those numbers will continue to rise.
 
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