Poll on Dame's question

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Go Young or get something done?

  • Go young

    Votes: 30 51.7%

  • Get something done

    Votes: 28 48.3%
  • Total voters
    58
TBpup said:
No, an incorrect absolute statement was made, and I suggested a different course of reply. Impressive how incorrectly that was taken.....again. :D
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So, when you said that the Blazers wouldn’t be walking away from an impressive playoff run, you were referring to the fact that the Blazers have not been a playoff team the previous four seasons. You weren’t assuming that they wouldn’t potentially be walking away from a brilliant playoff run with Dame next season after a major trade.

Why didn’t you say so?
 
It would be interesting to see the reaction around here if the Blazers traded Dame to the Lakers for Russell, Hachimura and picks.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Gets us close enough to keep Dame happy. We don't have to be a shoo-in to win the whole thing. Dame just wants a punchers chance, IMO.
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I want the team to be the feared, merciless, undisputed baddest MFer on the planet. Not a hopeful contender or even a one off, I want an era of dominance.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
I want the team to be the hated, merciless, undisputed baddest MFer on the planet. Not a hopeful contender or even a one off, I want an era of dominance.

STOMP
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If the Blazers get Wemby, there's a chance. Spurs tanked for Duncan. Rest is Championship Glory History.
 
It is. Just raises blood pressure. Which we're all great at doing in America these days.
 
STOMP said:
I want the team to be the feared, merciless, undisputed baddest MFer on the planet. Not a hopeful contender or even a one off, I want an era of dominance.

STOMP
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A fine goal, sure. Unfortunately most teams never get that. Like, the vast majority...
 
STOMP said:
I want the team to be the feared, merciless, undisputed baddest MFer on the planet. Not a hopeful contender or even a one off, I want an era of dominance.

STOMP
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Win #1, draft Wemby. Trade Dame for #2, draft Scoot. Scoot/Sharpe/Wemby big 3.

Then get a better coach.
 
Phatguysrule said:
A fine goal, sure. Unfortunately most teams never get that. Like, the vast majority...
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of course, the vast majority of teams think they've a chance going into the season but few of them are actually even competitive. Your proposed path of appeasing a star well on the wrong side of 30 by trading away the future for vets is hardly good odds on a championship either, especially a team as bad as Portland which is several players of the caliber you're talking up away. Having just looked at the list of champions over the past 20 years, only the 2020* Lakers even sort of fit that bill, but of course the future they gave up was for one of the league's elite talents (26 year old Anthony Davis) who basically forced his way to LA. I'm open to that sort of move, not Ant + the 2023 lotto pick for Pascal Siakam or fuckhead Randle.

The Spurs & Warriors provided a blueprint of how a team hitting on multiple picks can dominate for an era.

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
of course, the vast majority of teams think they've a chance going into the season but few of them are actually even competitive. Your proposed path of appeasing a star well on the wrong side of 30 by trading away the future for vets is hardly good odds on a championship either, especially a team as bad as Portland which is several players of the caliber you're talking up away. Having just looked at the list of champions over the past 20 years, only the 2020* Lakers even sort of fit that bill, but of course the future they gave up was for one of the league's elite talents (26 year old Anthony Davis) who basically forced his way to LA. I'm open to that sort of move, not Ant + the 2023 lotto pick for Pascal Siakam or fuckhead Randle.

The Spurs & Warriors provided a blueprint of how a team hitting on multiple picks can dominate for an era.

STOMP
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Golden State being a doormat for decades isn't really a path I'm interested in following...

Getting the #1 pick twice in a decade like San Antonio did isn't as easy now either. They drafted their other talent mostly mid to late first round, which we've also had the opportunity to do while making the playoffs. We've just not been lucky or evaluated talent well enough.

We followed San Antonio's "strategy" by tanking when Dame was injured. We got #7 rather than #1. We got Sharpe. Which is awesome. San Antonio didn't trade Robinson after getting Duncan.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Golden State being a doormat for decades isn't really a path I'm interested in following.
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What a odd reply. It didn't take them a decade of losing to turn it around, it took their new management hitting on 3 draft picks the highest of which was #7... the same spot Portland took Sharpe. It also took them moving the clearcut fan favorite for a viable Big (Bogut) because they rightly recognized that Steph and Ellis were too small a backcourt combo to adequately D up, but mainly it was drafting Curry #7, Thompson #11 & Draymond #35

Getting the #1 pick twice in a decade like San Antonio did isn't as easy now either. They drafted their other talent mostly mid to late first round, which we've also had the opportunity to do while making the playoffs. We've just not been lucky or evaluated talent well enough.
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Ding ding ding. Portland has the opportunity to add a major piece for their future in this upcoming draft. As you noted, the new management showed their talent evaluation chops in their very first draft taking Shaedon. I'm for giving them another shot at putting together a team... it's the Portland Trailblazers not the Damian Lillard appeasement tour.

San Antonio didn't trade Robinson after getting Duncan.
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you are really grasping at straws aren't you? Why in the world would they have traded Robinson after getting Duncan? Everyone knew they were going to be a great combo as both were super mobile versatile Bigs. It came as zero surprise that they were immediately dominant with TD. If Portland lucks into the #1, you won't hear me suggesting they should trade Dame or Ant or even Nurk as VW can operate outside the paint and is a versatile defender... they'll be ready to compete with the best.

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
I want the team to be the feared, merciless, undisputed baddest MFer on the planet. Not a hopeful contender or even a one off, I want an era of dominance.

STOMP
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That would be guys like Buck Williams, Mo Lucas, Kermit Washington or Brian Grant. Some of the toughest Blazers that I can recall.
 
STOMP said:
What a odd reply. It didn't take them a decade of losing to turn it around, it took their new management hitting on 3 draft picks the highest of which was #7... the same spot Portland took Sharpe. It also took them moving the clearcut fan favorite for a viable Big (Bogut) because they rightly recognized that Steph and Ellis were too small a backcourt combo to adequately D up, but mainly it was drafting Curry #7, Thompson #11 & Draymond #35
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All if which we could get with Dame. We've already got the #7 (Sharpe), and Ant is the late pick that turned out to have big potential (and we can trade him since he doesn't fit with Dame), and we can turn this year's pick into another something special that fits well with Dame.

STOMP said:
Ding ding ding. Portland has the opportunity to add a major piece for their future in this upcoming draft. As you noted, the new management showed their talent evaluation chops in their very first draft taking Shaedon. I'm for giving them another shot at putting together a team... it's the Portland Trailblazers not the Damian Lillard appeasement tour.
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Which means we'll be well prepared to transition from Dame if swinging for the fences doesn't work out.

STOMP said:
you are really grasping at straws aren't you? Why in the world would they have traded Robinson after getting Duncan? Everyone knew they were going to be a great combo as both were super mobile versatile Bigs. It came as zero surprise that they were immediately dominant with TD. If Portland lucks into the #1, you won't hear me suggesting they should trade Dame or Ant or even Nurk as VW can operate outside the paint and is a versatile defender... they'll be ready to compete with the best.

STOMP
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Just like Dame and Sharpe should work really well together, being a top PG and a skilled and athletic wing.
 
Phatguysrule said:
All if which we could get with Dame. We've already got the #7 (Sharpe), and Ant is the late pick that turned out to have big potential (and we can trade him since he doesn't fit with Dame), and we can turn this year's pick into another something special that fits well with Dame.
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What if other GMs don't value Ant highly? His advanced stats sure aren't great. Dame has stated (basically) get me vet support now or I'm out. You've stated you're for moving Ant + the lotto pick to target a guy pushing 30 that IMO have no chance of putting Portland over the top into contender status. So after they've moved Ant + the lotto for a 30ish player that won't get them into the elite status, they've neither today or tomorrow to look forward to.

Which means we'll be well prepared to transition from Dame if swinging for the fences doesn't work out.
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Sorry no. It means management will be hamstrung with overpriced guys on the wrong side of 30 when things don't work out and they'll have no young talent coming up to surround Shaedon with because they traded it all away. The potentially elite guys they could have been developing to run beside SS will be on other rosters.

Just like Dame and Sharpe should work really well together, being a top PG and a skilled and athletic wing.
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You've now pivoted to try and paint sunshine comparing this situation to Robinson-Duncan. First off, while I love Sharpe's potential as a player he is no where in the vicinity of where Duncan was when he came into the league. But where I see this comparison primarily falling apart is the difference between positions. There are very very few guys of David Robinson's size let alone athleticism, so when he was only 80% of what he was at his peak, he was still an effective 5. Because of the number of guys PG sized, they don't have the same sort of slack when they start their slide. While Dame is very skilled, he's not a Jason Kidd sort of PG savant. The basis of his success has always been his quickness and tremendous J. The day is coming when he won't be able to take his man off the dribble, when his physical advantages fade. When that happens even somewhat, it's a steep hill to irrelevance.

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
What if other GMs don't value Ant highly? His advanced stats sure aren't great. Dame has stated (basically) get me vet support now or I'm out. You've stated you're for moving Ant + the lotto pick to target a guy pushing 30 that IMO have no chance of putting Portland over the top into contender status. So after they've moved Ant + the lotto for a 30ish player that won't get them into the elite status, they've neither today or tomorrow to look forward to.
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We'll know if it gets us close this coming season. Dame's value will be roughly similar to what it is now. We'll have Grant locked up, sure. But we don't need to bid against ourselves to get him. Just pay his market rate.

STOMP said:
Sorry no. It means management will be hamstrung with overpriced guys on the wrong side of 30 when things don't work out and they'll have no young talent coming up to surround Shaedon with because they traded it all away. The potentially elite guys they could have been developing to run beside SS will be on other rosters.
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Sharpe is 19. We can push his timeline back a year to take a poke at a title.

STOMP said:
You've now pivoted to try and paint sunshine comparing this situation to Robinson-Duncan. Where I see this comparison primarily falling apart is the difference between positions. There are very very few guys of David Robinson's size let alone athleticism, so when he was only 80% of what he was at his peak, he was still an effective 5. Because of the number of guys PG sized, they don't have the same sort of slack when they start their slide. While Dame is very skilled, he's not a Jason Kidd sort of PG savant. The basis of his success has always been his quickness and tremendous J. The day is coming when he won't be able to take his man off the dribble, when his physical advantages fade. When that happens even somewhat, it's a steep hill to irrelevance.

STOMP
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I'm not. I'm saying that IMO the odds of us finding ourselves in a San Antonio like situation with the next Robinson/Duncan are far more remote than getting a shot at a title with Dame.

I get what you're saying. I'd just like to give it a shot with Dame. Another season is not likely to ruin his trade value.

Though I do understand that it's a risk.
 
Phatguysrule said:
We'll know if it gets us close this coming season. Dame's value will be roughly similar to what it is now. We'll have Grant locked up, sure. But we don't need to bid against ourselves to get him. Just pay his market rate.
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But (going your route) Ant and this years draft capitol will have gone to acquiring some 30ish year old forward. If they trade your hoped for proposed package for Siakam (which I don't think will be available), you do know that he's up for a new contract after this next year right?

I get what you're saying. I'd just like to give it a shot with Dame. Another season is not likely to ruin his trade value. Though I do understand that it's a risk.
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Among other things completely unrealistic, I'd like Dame to stay healthy and at the peak of his abilities forever. However, reality is often a bitch. Older players get injured more often and take longer to recover from injury. An injury at his age is likely and would absolutely ruin his trade value. Who wants to trade for a guy coming off an injury making 45 Mil?

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
But (going your route) Ant and this years draft capitol will have gone to acquiring some 30ish year old forward. If they trade your hoped for proposed package for Siakam (which I don't think will be available), you do know that he's up for a new contract after this next year right?


Among other things completely unrealistic, I'd like Dame to stay healthy and at the peak of his abilities forever. However, reality is often a bitch. Older players get injured more often and take longer to recover from injury. An injury at his age is likely and would absolutely ruin his trade value. Who wants to trade for a guy coming off an injury making 45 Mil?

STOMP
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I don't think we'll have any trouble getting 2 first round picks for Dame at any time in the next year. Especially when he's just had the most productive season of his career.

We'll be able to trade Grant for a first round pick. More than likely Siakam as well, even if we overpay a bit to re-sign him.

We'll be fine.
 
STOMP said:
I want the team to be the feared, merciless, undisputed baddest MFer on the planet. Not a hopeful contender or even a one off, I want an era of dominance.

STOMP
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How many teams have ACTUALLY been that? Celtics, Lakers, bulls, spurs, warriors. Am I missing any? 5 out of 30 teams have had any type of run like that. You can't be mad at a team when you set nearly impossible standards to begin with. That's a you thing, not a team thing. Be realistic.
 
STOMP, the Blazers don't have to do that. Instead, trade Simons to the Jazz for Lauri Markkanen who is the ideal PF and only makes $16.5M/yr.
 
Strenuus said:
How many teams have ACTUALLY been that? Celtics, Lakers, bulls, spurs, warriors. Am I missing any? 5 out of 30 teams have had any type of run like that. You can't be mad at a team when you set nearly impossible standards to begin with. That's a you thing, not a team thing. Be realistic.
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It's an impossible standard that I want my team to go for it building internally instead of going back to the year to year patchwork insanity that this board has been cheering for years under Soapy? Of course with 32 teams, any path chosen faces long odds at winning a single title let alone contending for many. Portland was all set up for an era of contending with Roy LA and Oden, but then injuries happened. But that they went for it had me (and others) more excited/optimistic about the Blazers then I've been the entire time during Dame's career. The course being advocated I'm arguing against from the outset has no chance of producing a title and will leave them with a bunch of broken down overpaid has beens in just a couple years and little in the cupboards. So sorry, but thats being realistic.

STOMP
 
I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that Cronin was under the same pressure last offseason but not only kept our pick but also drafted one of the youngest (and certainly most inexperienced) players in the draft. So I am hopeful he's just adopting the Mel Brooks strategy of agreeing with everything people tell him to do and then just doing what he wants to do anyway. The downside of this is that he traded away Josh Hart for Cam Reddish. Now maybe Hart had told him there was no way he was re-signing, but if not, I kinda wish he'd've been prioritized over Jerami.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that Cronin was under the same pressure last offseason but not only kept our pick but also drafted one of the youngest (and certainly most inexperienced) players in the draft. So I am hopeful he's just adopting the Mel Brooks strategy of agreeing with everything people tell him to do and then just doing what he wants to do anyway. The downside of this is that he traded away Josh Hart for Cam Reddish. Now maybe Hart had told him there was no way he was re-signing, but if not, I kinda wish he'd've been prioritized over Jerami.
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I believe Hart said exactly that. Otherwise there was no reason to let him go.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that Cronin was under the same pressure last offseason but not only kept our pick but also drafted one of the youngest (and certainly most inexperienced) players in the draft. So I am hopeful he's just adopting the Mel Brooks strategy of agreeing with everything people tell him to do and then just doing what he wants to do anyway. The downside of this is that he traded away Josh Hart for Cam Reddish. Now maybe Hart had told him there was no way he was re-signing, but if not, I kinda wish he'd've been prioritized over Jerami.
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Hart had no position on this team
 
STOMP said:
It's an impossible standard that I want my team to go for it building internally instead of going back to the year to year patchwork insanity that this board has been cheering for years under Soapy? Of course with 32 teams, any path chosen faces long odds at winning a single title let alone contending for many. Portland was all set up for an era of contending with Roy LA and Oden, but then injuries happened. But that they went for it had me (and others) more excited/optimistic about the Blazers then I've been the entire time during Dame's career. The course being advocated I'm arguing against from the outset has no chance of producing a title and will leave them with a bunch of broken down overpaid has beens in just a couple years and little in the cupboards. So sorry, but thats being realistic.

STOMP
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It's not hard to suck in the NBA. We can do that whenever we choose, and we can trade guys like Grant and whoever else doesn't work out for picks to jumpstart that at any time.

What's hard to do is getting All Stars to want to be here. We have one. That's the most realistic start on a championship, IMO.

I'd like to show other All Stars that Portland can be a good destination as well.
 
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