OT Portland and surrounding area Homeless Situation

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I just want to say, Im all for helping those trying to help themselves.
My personal interactions and first hand experiences tell me most do not want to conform into productive members of society.
Most are on the streets due to an addition that took them over.
Most will say they want to quit, but most also don't reveal that prior to being an addict, they weren't for being productive. They were for fighting the system that makes them slaves to large corporations.
This foundational pushback on current society and lack of wanting to be a productive member, has most looking to other means of personal, if only temporary, happiness by trying to change reality( drug use, live off the grid, etc.)

Many of these types have no want to join the masses.

So now we come to homeless shelters and camps.
I believe most will not be taken care of if we provide shelters for all homeless, without first investigating each persons history to determine their mindset moving forward.
If this doesn't take place, i fear most camps will be damaged or destroyed like many makeshift camps already have.
Here is a bar taken over by homeless that went up in flames. I fear this will be the similar result for camps if we don't first figure out the true mindset of those we are trying to help.
There should be more in patient programs, where most of the homeless should go first. To detox and get help for their addiction. With in patient treatment comes with everything homeless shelters do.

They need help. We should help them. But we shouldn't enable them. I fear Providing shelter without treatment,
will be a failed attempt in the long run.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-squatters-took-abandoned-bar-went-flames.amp

Not looking to blame, or insult opinions, but discuss thoughts on this.

Who else has worked closely with the homeless who has a different first hand opinion? Would love to hear it if it's on the up and up.
No studies include the cost ramifications of vandalism aNd upkeep of shelters, if the occupants do not comply and damage things. So numbers don't mean much to me. But your opinions aNd thoughts do. What say you on this topic?

 

[Hoopguru]

Detox then evaluate if they want a program to help them get on there feet. There must be a commitment on both person and gov.
You are right on with respect to some even before addiction and homelessness that just want to buck the system and have a history of not being productive . We need more mental hospitals and detox centers and assistance for those wanting to turn over a new leaf.

 

[Strenuus]

It's multi tiered and multi faceted. You need a lot of tentacles working to make it work.

Trouble is, people want this solved yesterday. That's my worry. It's just not shelter, it's just not detox, it's just not inpatient, it's just not mental health care, it's just not financial literacy, it's just not resources to getting a job. It's all of those combined. And that takes time and resources and collaboration to do those in a manner efficient with the persons pace. That's what makes it so difficult.

Oh, and the fact you need a $25+ hour job to even live in the fucking city unless you want roommates/have a significant other.

It feels like it's almost gone so far with capitalism and the lack of caring about another human being it's going to take decades to make it right. Yes, decades. We don't have anything close to a livable wage to help them out. Some don't want help, I get it. But to those who do, THAT road is hard as hell right now.

Multi tiered.

 

[Chris Craig]

I have been homeless. It's uphill battle to come back from that, even if one wants to. There are some who choose to stay homeless, even become homeless, but for most it is not a choice. A lot of people facing homeless can't really be productive members of society. There are many who are old and disabled. They couldn't work if they wanted too. Some are dealing deeply with mental health issues. They can't get better because this system is built so poorly, it's set against them.

A lot of homeless people have turned to drugs. A good number likely did them before becoming homeless. Not giving homeless people resources if they don't do drug/alcohol treatment or get mental health won't have the affect you think it will. The homeless will just further distrust the system. They will die quicker, if that's what you want, without food, shelter, and other resources. But, they will just be replaced by others.

The cost of living is so great now, like Stren said, you'd have to make $20 + bucks an hour to afford just the basics anymore. They are starting at such a disadvantage.

It's going to take a multitude of measures put in place simultaneously in order to fix this problem. It's going to take time. With the system as it is, this issue is only going to get worse. The number of homeless will continue to grow exponentially.

We need low income housing that doesn't inflate and push people out onto the streets. We need temporarily housing for the homeless, we need programs and social services in place to help the ones who are addicts and alcoholics. We need a better mental health care system. (A better health care system all together). We need programs to help them find work. Etc.

They need to be treated like human beings. They need to be and feel supported in order to successfully come back from homelessness and the other issues some of them are dealing with.

 

[riverman]

My youngest brother was homeless much of his life but it wasn't mental illness or drugs, it was his gambling addiction...running from debts that kept him homeless....if he ever got ahead much he'd gamble it away within days. He passed away a few years ago but everyone in my family tried to help him...I tried many times ...in the end, it was his choice to live the way he did. Hee found a few women who'd put up with him for short stretches but that never lasted. I've never been homeless but I've been a couch guest a time after a break up or two when I was younger and that wears thin real fast. Some people are easily defeated in life. There's not one answer other than the cost of living is brutal for anyone who's lost their job or home for any reason. My home is my most prized possession.

 

[Stevenson]

I don't know the answer, and I don't know if encampments are right or wrong, but I do know that living, sleeping, defecting, fucking, and doing drugs on streets that were never meant for living is not acceptable. It ruins a city, and such a small percentage of people do not have the right to ruin a city.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

It's multi tiered and multi faceted. You need a lot of tentacles working to make it work.

Trouble is, people want this solved yesterday. That's my worry. It's just not shelter, it's just not detox, it's just not inpatient, it's just not mental health care, it's just not financial literacy, it's just not resources to getting a job. It's all of those combined. And that takes time and resources and collaboration to do those in a manner efficient with the persons pace. That's what makes it so difficult.

Oh, and the fact you need a $25+ hour job to even live in the fucking city unless you want roommates/have a significant other.

It feels like it's almost gone so far with capitalism and the lack of caring about another human being it's going to take decades to make it right. Yes, decades. We don't have anything close to a livable wage to help them out. Some don't want help, I get it. But to those who do, THAT road is hard as hell right now.

Multi tiered.

I agree, and nearly impossible odds to effectively put into action everything that needs to happen all at once. So we need to triage the priorities.
What is the most important first step? What is the second most important step and/ or the next step that the first step needs, to reach optimal success?, etc.

I would think there are smarter people than I assessing the situation and creating a sound plan, but i have not seen anything divulged to the public in such comprehensive detail.

To me, the first thing to do would be an on the street survey of who would like off the streets. Those who say yes, are then interviewed. A quick physical to assess any potential immediate health concerns, needing to be addressed. Name run for any outstanding warrants (most who know they are wanted will say no to the first question aNd wont want off the street, in all likelihood).
A questionnaire as to how they got there, an assessment of any signs of addition or getting an admission to addiction. Etc.

Once this is done, then we can determine the next course of action, based on the assessment/interview.
Those sober and in need of financial help to have a roof and shower to clean up and get a job, get free shelter for a certain duration of time, combined with an entry into a job placement program, with an agreement to find gainful employment within one year and start paying a designated rent within one year of finding gainful employment.
Thst rent would be a rent to own option and these shelters need to be set up in locations that would understand this would be permanent.

Those who need help with addiction, get just that. But it must be an inpatient, 100% detox help, and then they can move to a shelter once they have completed the steps to sobriety.

Those with warrants go to jail and sit before a judge.


obviously alot more to it than that, but i think that is the priority starting point, if we ever want to see any lasting improvement.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Opinion: An opportunity for a reset on homeless strategy in Multnomah County

https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/...on-homeless-strategy-in-multnomah-county.html

 

[Strenuus]

Opinion: An opportunity for a reset on homeless strategy in Multnomah County

https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/...on-homeless-strategy-in-multnomah-county.html

Well that gives me little hope lol. But it's such a dense process there's no real shortcuts. It's gonna be longitudinal in practice by default.

Capitalism also is killing our country. But that's a whole other topic.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[THE HCP]

Down here in Phoenix ….. a ton of homeless down here in and around downtown. They must like the dry hot weather.

 

[julius]

Down here in Phoenix ….. a ton of homeless down here in and around downtown. They must like the dry hot weather.

You must be lyin', nothing bad happens in climates where it doesn't rain.

 

[riverman]

Down here in Phoenix ….. a ton of homeless down here in and around downtown. They must like the dry hot weather.

The damned wall keeps them from escaping to Mexico!

 

[Phatguysrule]

We've seen how this is solved. By getting people into secure homes until we can get them access to services.

Of course it's more complex than that, but that has to be the start. Getting everyone into a home who is willing to move in.

You can't manage a transient population. It's impossible.

If they have an address they are willing to settle into then you have a chance.

 

[Shaboid]

There needs to be more microshelter pods. Get people into a secure location so they can transition to sober living or permanent housing. Tents are not the solution, I know that.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Id love to watch that guy get his ass whooped for that.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

We've seen how this is solved. By getting people into secure homes until we can get them access to services.

Of course it's more complex than that, but that has to be the start. Getting everyone into a home who is willing to move in.

You can't manage a transient population. It's impossible.

If they have an address they are willing to settle into then you have a chance.

There needs to be more microshelter pods. Get people into a secure location so they can transition to sober living or permanent housing. Tents are not the solution, I know that.

i agree tents aren't the solution, but i disagree we should just put them in shelters first.
Do you not think they should be screened/evaluated to determine their first need? Whether it be mental help, detox and addition help, etc?

Moving homeless around will just move the same problems around if we don't first determine each individuals true needs.
Messes outside of tents will be outside of the shelters for some, if the don't first get the priority help they need.
Intensive in patient treatment and/or mental health treatment would come with room and board. Why put them in shelters first? Why not screen and get them where they need to get to first?

 

[Phatguysrule]

i agree tents aren't the solution, but i disagree we should just put them in shelters first.
Do you not think they should be screened/evaluated to determine their first need? Whether it be mental help, detox and addition help, etc?

Moving homeless around will just move the same problems around if we don't first determine each individuals true needs.
Messes outside of tents will be outside of the shelters for some, if the don't first get the priority help they need.
Intensive in patient treatment and/or mental health treatment would come with room and board. Why put them in shelters first? Why not screen and get them where they need to get to first?

Screening and evaluation is part of placing them in homes. That's easy. The home is the carrot that gets them to cooperate.

It's not generally difficult to tell if a person is incapable of living on their own. And most adults are capable. And there are workers who know many of these people.

Getting mental health treatment with room and board IS getting them in homes. But you have to have the space (the home) available before you can offer it.

 

[Hoopguru]

Id love to watch that guy get his ass whooped for that.

Karma will catch up to him......

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Screening and evaluation is part of placing them in homes. That's easy. The home is the carrot that gets them to cooperate.

It's not generally difficult to tell if a person is incapable of living on their own. And most adults are capable. And there are workers who know many of these people.

Getting mental health treatment with room and board IS getting them in homes. But you have to have the space (the home) available before you can offer it.

right. And what im saying i think its more important to get the space available in the detox, addiction treatment facilities and mental health care facilities so when they have a roof over their head they aren't still in the mental head space that causes negativity around the and within their surroundings.
My first hand experience tells me that moving a troubled person from a tent on the street to a shelter is not going to improve thier situation without the help they need mentally and physically.
I agree cant have one without the other. Which is why im mostly against putting people into shelters without an eval to help their true core needs.
if this is the case, the prioritized focus, to me, should be expanding the facilities that can actually provide help. Not just a roof without help. If we dont have enough space in mental health care facilities, then that should be the top focus. Not shelters. Or in tandem. Shelters for those truly just down and out but mentally stable and sober. Everyone else needs to go into a treatment/health care facility of some sort.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Karma will catch up to him......

i hope so. Watching that literally made me sick that someone could do that to someone else.

 

[Hoopguru]

i hope so. Watching that literally made me aick that someone could do that to someone else.

For sure an act of cruelty!

 

[Shaboid]

i agree tents aren't the solution, but i disagree we should just put them in shelters first.
Do you not think they should be screened/evaluated to determine their first need? Whether it be mental help, detox and addition help, etc?

Moving homeless around will just move the same problems around if we don't first determine each individuals true needs.
Messes outside of tents will be outside of the shelters for some, if the don't first get the priority help they need.
Intensive in patient treatment and/or mental health treatment would come with room and board. Why put them in shelters first? Why not screen and get them where they need to get to first?

I have toured a micropod shelter and if done in the way I observed, it is effective. The facility was clean, each individual has a "case worker", and the average stay was just under 90 days. Not all found permanent housing after as there are numerous barriers for these individuals, but giving them a secure location to store their belongings and working to overcome them is essential. One important factor is that these places are closed off to everyone but the "residents". They are enclosed by a fence and have security at the entrance. The only people that can be there are the residents. Sure, detox and all that is helpful, there are tons of services that are available, but if you can't leave your tent without all your shit getting jacked and destroyed, you won't.

 

[Stevenson]

i agree tents aren't the solution, but i disagree we should just put them in shelters first.
Do you not think they should be screened/evaluated to determine their first need? Whether it be mental help, detox and addition help, etc?

Moving homeless around will just move the same problems around if we don't first determine each individuals true needs.
Messes outside of tents will be outside of the shelters for some, if the don't first get the priority help they need.
Intensive in patient treatment and/or mental health treatment would come with room and board. Why put them in shelters first? Why not screen and get them where they need to get to first?

Yeah, we should let them live, sleep, shit, and do drugs openly on our city streets, making them unsafe and ruining the city for everyone until we have a hugely expensive mass solution.

 

[Phatguysrule]

right. And what im saying i think its more important to get the space available in the detox, addiction treatment facilities and mental health care facilities so when they have a roof over their head they aren't still in the mental head space that causes negativity around the and within their surroundings.
My first hand experience tells me that moving a troubled person from a tent on the street to a shelter is not going to improve thier situation without the help they need mentally and physically.
I agree cant have one without the other. Which is why im mostly against putting people into shelters without an eval to help their true core needs.
if this is the case, the prioritized focus, to me, should be expanding the facilities that can actually provide help. Not just a roof without help. If we dont have enough space in mental health care facilities, then that should be the top focus. Not shelters. Or in tandem. Shelters for those truly just down and out but mentally stable and sober. Everyone else needs to go into a treatment/health care facility of some sort.

Yeah. Nobody has suggested a roof without help. That's not a consideration, as far as I'm aware.

The roof and steady address makes the help easier to organize and provide, thereby is a force multiplier. You can help more people with a smaller workforce.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I have toured a micropod shelter and if done in the way I observed, it is effective. The facility was clean, each individual has a "case worker", and the average stay was just under 90 days. Not all found permanent housing after as there are numerous barriers for these individuals, but giving them a secure location to store their belongings and working to overcome them is essential. One important factor is that these places are closed off to everyone but the "residents". They are enclosed by a fence and have security at the entrance. The only people that can be there are the residents. Sure, detox and all that is helpful, there are tons of services that are available, but if you can't leave your tent without all your shit getting jacked and destroyed, you won't.

Bingo. This would be a fantastic step on the way to permanent housing.

There must be no restrictions on the residents regarding curfews or access to their pods and the pods must be secure.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Yeah, we should let them live, sleep, shit, and do drugs openly on our city streets, making them unsafe and ruining the city for everyone until we have a hugely expensive mass solution.

This is not what i said. This does not aid towards a productive convo, fyi.

what is the difference between building shelters and expanding health care facilities and drug treatment facilities to handle larger capacities?

Yes costs, but ive been told time and time again we can afford to fix this. So if we can, why not expand the facilities that will provide a great encompassing help to those im need vs a shelter without any additional/ conjunctional aid?

And what is the difference between the homeless shitting on the streets downtown, vs the current shelter on the east side by the freeway?

We keep saying most on the streets are in need of mental help aNd addiction treatment. If this is the case, why isn't this top priority? Assess who on the streets need this type of help and get them there and then the balance who just need a pick me up can go directly to shelters?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I have toured a micropod shelter and if done in the way I observed, it is effective. The facility was clean, each individual has a "case worker", and the average stay was just under 90 days. Not all found permanent housing after as there are numerous barriers for these individuals, but giving them a secure location to store their belongings and working to overcome them is essential. One important factor is that these places are closed off to everyone but the "residents". They are enclosed by a fence and have security at the entrance. The only people that can be there are the residents. Sure, detox and all that is helpful, there are tons of services that are available, but if you can't leave your tent without all your shit getting jacked and destroyed, you won't.

Some good points, but in patient treatment would mean they arent going back to their tent to find things stolen every day.
We would need to provide a storage for the individuals goods for thier duration of treatment. Id be for that if it helps motivate then to get the proper help they need.

 

[Shaboid]

Some good points, but in patient treatment would mean they arent going back to their tent to find things stolen every day.
We would need to provide a storage for the individuals goods for thier duration of treatment. Id be for that if it helps motivate then to get the proper help they need.

If they want treatment sure, but you aren't going to be successful forcing them in. Assessments are done all the time. The main problem is that they are assessed on xyz St. Then tomorrow are sleeping on the corner of abc and def St. How are you going to provide people help if they don't have a location to be found. Drugs are a problem for sure, but forcing people into expensive in patient treatment against their wishes will not be effective.

The whole teach a man to fish vs giving him a fish saying makes a bit of sense here.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

If they want treatment sure, but you aren't going to be successful forcing them in. Assessments are done all the time. The main problem is that they are assessed on xyz St. Then tomorrow are sleeping on the corner of abc and def St. How are you going to provide people help if they don't have a location to be found. Drugs are a problem for sure, but forcing people into expensive in patient treatment against their wishes will not be effective.

The whole teach a man to fish vs giving him a fish saying makes a bit of sense here.

Why cant the assessment and transition happen at the same time?


And i agree on the fish thing, but that is a statement that backs my thoughts.
Why give them a shelter to make the same mistakes? Fix their issues and they can then build their own shelter… so to speak.
I view giving shelters with little other help in place, the same as giving a fish.
I view getting them help to be productive, more like teaching them to fish to be self sufficient.

My thought is have a carpool van downtown.
A couple people evaluating each individual who says they would like to be off the streets. Those who state as much and are evalled, get in the van and go to the proper place. If they have belongings needing protection, then we figure that out as well.