OT Portland and surrounding area Homeless Situation

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Nah, I'll keep calling you out for posting ignorant BS. I scanned your links giving them all the attention they are worth. You posted examples and pictures of places nobody has suggested Portland try to copy in an attempt to move the attention away from how wrong you are.

Same old BS you've always done.

I'll keep calling it out for the garbage it is. But I won't just let you spam your garbage unchallenged.

Are fucking serious??? This proves you didnt read anything. I didnt post any pictures of anything i want Portland to copy.

if you were actually following along, i said the world has way more poverty stricken areas than the us has. I then posted pictures Nd articles.
You dismiss them as me saying i want Portland to follow their models?
I don't think you even listen to what you say yourself, let alone what anyone else says.

wtf?lmfao


This one takes the cake!!!! Hahahaha

no need for me even to comment further. You haven't a clue what ive said.
Talk about garbage….

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Did you check out the link with info?
Did you?

Nope. I dismissed them as garbage without even checking them out. Them i posted completely wrong info about your post, implying you want to follow models that created this poverty??


But now im going to insult you because you have once again posted links that counter some things ive said. So im going to dismiss those links and insult you again. Cause thats how we solve things and make them better!!! I know all and have the answer to solve everything and if you refute it again? Ill just say i should gi lve you less attention and insult you.


Funny funny stuff. Thanks for the laughs @Phatguysrule

 

[yankeesince59]

Déjà vu.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's almost like we could just put them in existing homes and save a BUTTLOAD of money...

Hasn't there been a housing shortage though?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Hasn't there been a housing shortage though?

There has. And the refusal to tax (or apply some other stiff penalty) for having vacant houses or apartments is a big part of the problem, IMO.

Punishing companies and individuals for keeping vacant properties would help to ease that shortage.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Are fucking serious??? This proves you didnt read anything. I didnt post any pictures of anything i want Portland to copy.

if you were actually following along, i said the world has way more poverty stricken areas than the us has. I then posted pictures Nd articles.
You dismiss them as me saying i want Portland to follow their models?
I don't think you even listen to what you say yourself, let alone what anyone else says.

wtf?lmfao


This one takes the cake!!!! Hahahaha

no need for me even to comment further. You haven't a clue what ive said.
Talk about garbage….

Shockingly you replied with gobbledygook. Keep it up, and people will just keep avoiding your thread.

 

[Natebishop3]

There has. And the refusal to tax (or apply some other stiff penalty) for having vacant houses or apartments is a big part of the problem, IMO.

Punishing companies and individuals for keeping vacant properties would help to ease that shortage.

I think they should convert office space downtown into more housing.

 

[Chris Craig]

What a disrespectful punk.

 

[Chris Craig]

i agree tents aren't the solution, but i disagree we should just put them in shelters first.
Do you not think they should be screened/evaluated to determine their first need? Whether it be mental help, detox and addition help, etc?

Moving homeless around will just move the same problems around if we don't first determine each individuals true needs.
Messes outside of tents will be outside of the shelters for some, if the don't first get the priority help they need.
Intensive in patient treatment and/or mental health treatment would come with room and board. Why put them in shelters first? Why not screen and get them where they need to get to first?

Shelter needs to come first. Food and shelter are the base of the hierarchy of needs. If you get them in shelter, you can then evaluate their needs further.

Obviously resources such as detox and mental health services need to be available.

 

[Chris Craig]

This is not what i said. This does not aid towards a productive convo, fyi.

what is the difference between building shelters and expanding health care facilities and drug treatment facilities to handle larger capacities?

Yes costs, but ive been told time and time again we can afford to fix this. So if we can, why not expand the facilities that will provide a great encompassing help to those im need vs a shelter without any additional/ conjunctional aid?

And what is the difference between the homeless shitting on the streets downtown, vs the current shelter on the east side by the freeway?

We keep saying most on the streets are in need of mental help aNd addiction treatment. If this is the case, why isn't this top priority? Assess who on the streets need this type of help and get them there and then the balance who just need a pick me up can go directly to shelters?

Healthcare facilities and drug treatment facilities are necessary, but only for those who need them. Shelter needs to be separate from that. If you were forced to live in a hospital or treatment facility would that feel like a home? People need their basic needs met in order to open up and decide to do more.

 

[Chris Craig]

Why cant the assessment and transition happen at the same time?


And i agree on the fish thing, but that is a statement that backs my thoughts.
Why give them a shelter to make the same mistakes? Fix their issues and they can then build their own shelter… so to speak.
I view giving shelters with little other help in place, the same as giving a fish.
I view getting them help to be productive, more like teaching them to fish to be self sufficient.

My thought is have a carpool van downtown.
A couple people evaluating each individual who says they would like to be off the streets. Those who state as much and are evalled, get in the van and go to the proper place. If they have belongings needing protection, then we figure that out as well.

See the human hierarchy of needs.

 

[Chris Craig]

The type of person you are referring to will either move into a home and follow the law, leave the area, or be arrested.

And we'll have our public spaces back again

Criminalizing homelessness is wrong.

 

[Chris Craig]

lol. No this supports the theory that some people value principles over enabling continual poor decision making. You can try to insult it all you want. Wont change the fact that you are Absolutely trying to take individuals’ rights away from the majority to help a minority who cant make better choices and work harder.

You talk of people making poor choices when desperate. There is no desperate in this country. Our worst neighborhoods are dream communities for many parts of the third world.
This country was founded on hard work to survive and we have gone too soft. Period.
This country provides soooo many opportunities for those who actually put forth effort to improve themselves its ridiculous to claim we have sooo many in such a desperate level of poverty, that their poor decisions should be excused and we should fund then without change in thier behavior.
There are homeless people who do not break laws. They can distinguish right from wrong.
I refuse to buy into any of your insulting propaganda.
You continue to ignore the points made about The homeless specifically in Portland have a larger base of anarchistic desires. You bring up models from other places that do not address the points made several times about specific of the issues in this city.

How do you suggest we deal with the large percentage of healthy homeless youth that want to see the system torn down, live in tents, steal to get high and wait for the next protest to come out and try to instigate and antagonize to push their wants on everyone else?

What is your specific answer in dealing with this sect that runs around in Portland? Straight forward answer.

There is desperation in this country. Lots of it, for those who have fallen through the cracks. Yes, we have more resources than 3rd world countries. We are one of the richest countries in the world, and yet we slap a band-aid on a gaping wound to make it seem like something is being done.

There is the opportunity to come back from homeless out there, but it's hard. It was an uphill battle for me and I wasn't dealing with mental illness or drug problems.

What is missing is trust. These people are not being treated like human beings, but like an infestation. We need to build trust. We get those willing off the street first. We help them without obligation. This builds trust with the rest.

Of course if people are breaking the law, they should be arrested. But, homelessness itself should not be a crime, especially since it is a symptom of our broken systems.

 

[Chris Craig]

There has. And the refusal to tax (or apply some other stiff penalty) for having vacant houses or apartments is a big part of the problem, IMO.

Punishing companies and individuals for keeping vacant properties would help to ease that shortage.

Not sure imposing more taxes on people already having trouble paying taxes because they are having trouble renting their house out because people can't afford it, is a good answer.

 

[Chris Craig]

@BlazerBender @Phatguysrule maybe take a break from replying to each other's posts in this thread.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Criminalizing homelessness is wrong.

My proposal, and what Finland, SLC, etc has done is not criminalizing homelessness. It's offering homeless people homes.

The only people who would be arrested are those who choose to commit property damage, violence, or theft.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I think they should convert office space downtown into more housing.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Chris Craig]

My proposal, and what Finland, SLC, etc has done is not criminalizing homelessness. It's offering homeless people homes.

The only people who would be arrested are those who choose to commit property damage, violence, or theft.

That's fine.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not sure imposing more taxes on people already having trouble paying taxes because they are having trouble renting their house out because people can't afford it, is a good answer.

The people with vacancies aren't having trouble paying taxes or they would rent their units out. That would more than cover the taxes.

And it would go a long way toward helping alleviate our housing shortage.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

There has. And the refusal to tax (or apply some other stiff penalty) for having vacant houses or apartments is a big part of the problem, IMO.

Punishing companies and individuals for keeping vacant properties would help to ease that shortage.

If i buy property and want a house on it to remain vacant, thsts my right. Tax me more cor keeping it vacant?

never gonna happen. But you keep trying to take from one to give to another. See how far you get with it.

 

[barfo]

The people with vacancies aren't having trouble paying taxes or they would rent their units out. That would more than cover the taxes.

And it would go a long way toward helping alleviate our housing shortage.

What is the advantage to a landlord to having a vacancy? I suppose there are some that are just incompetent and thus unable to rent their units, but it doesn't make financial sense currently to keep buildings empty, does it? I'm having a hard time imagining there's some huge stock of rental units that are intentionally being kept vacant.

barfo

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Shockingly you replied with gobbledygook. Keep it up, and people will just keep avoiding your thread.

And yet here you are avoiding “my” thread…

please do. You have made your opinion more than clear snd you cant handle that some disagree so you continue to come in the thread and yell louder and call everything else googlywhatever. Lol.

You are selling your proposal so masterfully!!!


Lol.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

There is desperation in this country. Lots of it, for those who have fallen through the cracks. Yes, we have more resources than 3rd world countries. We are one of the richest countries in the world, and yet we slap a band-aid on a gaping wound to make it seem like something is being done.

There is the opportunity to come back from homeless out there, but it's hard. It was an uphill battle for me and I wasn't dealing with mental illness or drug problems.

What is missing is trust. These people are not being treated like human beings, but like an infestation. We need to build trust. We get those willing off the street first. We help them without obligation. This builds trust with the rest.

Of course if people are breaking the law, they should be arrested. But, homelessness itself should not be a crime, especially since it is a symptom of our broken systems.

Many in portland chose homelessness over joining the system. Thats fine. Until they break laws to support themselves, which happens every day.
Most criminals are not caught in the act. There needs to be another solution than pulling cops off the streets making it even harder to catch criminals in the act. This is a way more complicated situation in Portland than to just say there are homeless and there are criminals.

Most homeless in Portland, are criminals.
Id put money on there being a good percentage of warrants out for many homeless in Portland.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Shelter needs to come first. Food and shelter are the base of the hierarchy of needs. If you get them in shelter, you can then evaluate their needs further.

Obviously resources such as detox and mental health services need to be available.

we have them.
We dont need to put them in houses for months. We can assess their needs within hours and send them directly there. Detox, jail, wherever. Then take the ones left and let them in shelters with a mandated job placement program with an obligation to start paying rent for the shelter after six months of employment if they don't want to move out on their own.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

If someone has an addiction that makes their behavior negatively impact others around them with theft snd or violence, i don't care about comfortable they are im said facility until they can become productive members of society again.
When do we care more a out the comfortability of those around these people instead of these peoples comfort?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Healthcare facilities and drug treatment facilities are necessary, but only for those who need them. Shelter needs to be separate from that. If you were forced to live in a hospital or treatment facility would that feel like a home? People need their basic needs met in order to open up and decide to do more.

There is desperation in this country. Lots of it, for those who have fallen through the cracks. Yes, we have more resources than 3rd world countries. We are one of the richest countries in the world, and yet we slap a band-aid on a gaping wound to make it seem like something is being done.

There is the opportunity to come back from homeless out there, but it's hard. It was an uphill battle for me and I wasn't dealing with mental illness or drug problems.

What is missing is trust. These people are not being treated like human beings, but like an infestation. We need to build trust. We get those willing off the street first. We help them without obligation. This builds trust with the rest.

Of course if people are breaking the law, they should be arrested. But, homelessness itself should not be a crime, especially since it is a symptom of our broken systems.

The desperation felt and/or exhibit, does not compare to what other countries worst areas are. Put the rich aside. Were talking a out the poorest of poor areas. We are not near the top. Not even close.
Go google earth neighborhoods in the Philippines and tell me we are as bad as they are.
We don't have near the poverty scale as some and yet we have way more opportunities for those in poverty im this country to grt out of compared to most other countries.
The lack of work ethic aNd responsibilities of individuals should not be subsidized by hard working tax payers.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Not worth my time. Nice try though.

Worth your time to respond though. You do just like to argue instead of debate info. Thanks for proving as much.

 

[Phatguysrule]

What is the advantage to a landlord to having a vacancy? I suppose there are some that are just incompetent and thus unable to rent their units, but it doesn't make financial sense currently to keep buildings empty, does it? I'm having a hard time imagining there's some huge stock of rental units that are intentionally being kept vacant.

barfo

It doesn't need to be a rental unit. Just an empty space that could be a rental unit. Could be a house.

I've seen many houses sit empty for years before they are remodeled and put back on the market for rent. It happens all the time. If you buy it at auction it doesn't hurt you much to take your time to get it on the market. So large companies buy up what they can and many sit until they get around to fixing them.

There are 16,000,000 empty units in the US and only 500,000 homeless. Get all of them in homes and there would still be over 15,000,000 empty units.

That doesn't even include converting office space into residential.

Just need to change up the incentives to get more homes into the hands of people and make sitting on vacant space more painful.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Worth your time to respond though. You do just like to argue instead of debate info. Thanks for proving as much.

Lol, oh the irony...

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

What is the advantage to a landlord to having a vacancy? I suppose there are some that are just incompetent and thus unable to rent their units, but it doesn't make financial sense currently to keep buildings empty, does it? I'm having a hard time imagining there's some huge stock of rental units that are intentionally being kept vacant.

barfo

You're right - there isn't a huge supply of vacant rentals.

However it most definitely is a MUCH better financial choice to keep a rental vacant, than to fill it with someone who will destroy it. The cost of a bad rental far outstrips the benefit of having it rented.