Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Syndrome

[D-Rock]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Actually you're incorrect. Also there's a wide margin of the test itself being inaccurate even if performed correctly.

But what I find interesting is that here is a test that has a huge margin for error (+ or -) and in this case (as in many others) the test indicated a greater chance of no Downs than yes Downs. The kid had Downs so the parents sued. It brings into play both morality and greed.

So if they had tested for athletic ability with a 35% margin for error and the kid couldn't dribble anything but food, is the maker of the test or the entity that administered the test "negligent" to the extent of malpractice?

There is a dangerous precedent set here by the Peoples Republic Of Multnomah County jury. The implications may be felt far and wide. Were I a hospital administrator I'd immediately cease all types of tests of all types to determine anything about the baby aside from ultrasound to determine breach... just prior to delivery If people want to know the sex ahead of time or anything else whatsoever, too bad. And if I were an insurance carrier, I'd immediately cease covering anything like this as well.

This is why I said we're becoming too litigious of a society. They only people it helps are the people getting the big pay outs because they're the only ones that can afford the big price hikes in medical expenses that come as a result of having to defend these types of cases. Less lawsuits, lower insurance rates (theoretically anyway). There's always a chance insurance companies would be the money grubbing entities everyone says they are.

Curious, Blazer Prophet, how'd you get into your line of work. It sounds interesting.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Anyone adopting a Down's kid will need lots of money from the government (that's how Michelle Bachmann supported herself), so no one will adopt. The government would have to put the kid in some kind of group home and pay much more than $3M. The parents are right and are offering taxpayers a bargain in lieu of putting her up for adoption.

Gee, why don't hospitals, or some other organization, provide every couple with a disabled child with cash? That way, they are less of a burden on our society/government?

If you choose to have a child, it should be your responsibility to take care of, and provide for, that child.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Lulz stereotypes are fun! I bet if they were in Clark county, they'd be handed some crack! Or if it was clackamas county they'd be handed some dirt with gold spray paint, or washington county some strip malls.

Lulz on you calling the reference a stereotype. I was simply responding to another poster's assertion that history shows, cases like this in Multnomah County side in favor of the plaintiff. I didn't say if it were in any other county, it would be any different. I don't pay attention to those counties. Just simply, I agree that if history is an indication (some people say history is the best indicator of the future), the couple would win.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Curious, Blazer Prophet, how'd you get into your line of work. It sounds interesting.

The short story is that I have a degree in aeronautics. I chose to live where I wanted and work outside my career field rather than live where I didn't want to and work in my career field. So I drifted into insurance claims (although I'm slightly anti insurance) and worked the field in Klamath & Lake county for years. Took a few years off to work social services (mostly with homeless & incarcerated vets), got laid off and came back to claims where I focused on claims litigation. Due to some extra CE and other training I became an arbitrator settling disputes between insurance companies and eventually made my way to the top rung where I settled cases up to $150K (the gig was voluntary and the extra hours were too long so I stopped a few years ago). I got fed up with how insurance companies were treating people and took a job specializing in dental/medical malpractice claims and dental risk management. I also do a wee bit of commercial property and subrogation claims. I handle most mediation cases in OR/WA/AZ/MT. It's interesting work and I get to see the real side of medical/dental malpractice stuff. In all honesty, only about 10% of the cases actually reach true "malpractice". The rest are either "pay us $50K or go to trial for $150K", nut jobs, revenge for turning patients over to collections, and some are not malpractice but large sympathy factors or at least debatable points (that still don't reach the level of malpractice). Currently on my desk is the nations first murder/suicide dental malpractice case. Heart breaking and fascinating.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Shocker that I agree with jlprk and MARIS61 on this one, though MARIS is extreme as usual.

It's a clear case of malpractice. The standard practice is to take cells from the fetus and test those in a lab. The malpractice was taking cells from the mother and testing those in the lab.

The parents had every right to test for potential defects and to have a 1st trimester abortion for any reason they chose. Even if that reason was they didn't want to have a child with a massive birth defect.

The money awarded them will not make up for a lifetime of caring for the child and the day to day burden that goes along with it. The money might pay for special schooling, a nanny, etc., to help make up for all that.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Actually you're incorrect. Also there's a wide margin of the test itself being inaccurate even if performed correctly.

I was responding to posts opposing the couple, which claimed that since the test is so accurate, the couple doesn't have a leg to stand on. Now you say the posters were wrong and the test is unreliable. Well, then you negated a couple of your compatriots in this thread, and the couple should sue the hospital to eliminate the test. Lawsuit either way.

89% of people in this situation abort because the child will be similar to a baby till he's 20, will be similar to a 5-year old the rest of his life, and will need a lot of money for care after they're dead. The choice is between ending the fetus' life or ending your own, for all practical purposes.

 

[D-Rock]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

The short story is that I have a degree in aeronautics. I chose to live where I wanted and work outside my career field rather than live where I didn't want to and work in my career field. So I drifted into insurance claims (although I'm slightly anti insurance) and worked the field in Klamath & Lake county for years. Took a few years off to work social services (mostly with homeless & incarcerated vets), got laid off and came back to claims where I focused on claims litigation. Due to some extra CE and other training I became an arbitrator settling disputes between insurance companies and eventually made my way to the top rung where I settled cases up to $150K (the gig was voluntary and the extra hours were too long so I stopped a few years ago). I got fed up with how insurance companies were treating people and took a job specializing in dental/medical malpractice claims and dental risk management. I also do a wee bit of commercial property and subrogation claims. I handle most mediation cases in OR/WA/AZ/MT. It's interesting work and I get to see the real side of medical/dental malpractice stuff. In all honesty, only about 10% of the cases actually reach true "malpractice". The rest are either "pay us $50K or go to trial for $150K", nut jobs, revenge for turning patients over to collections, and some are not malpractice but large sympathy factors or at least debatable points (that still don't reach the level of malpractice). Currently on my desk is the nations first murder/suicide dental malpractice case. Heart breaking and fascinating.

That sounds really interesting. I've graduated from law school and am awaiting bar results and my dad is a dentist. What you do is a nice combo of those things. And you didn't have to pay ridiculous law school tuition to do it. It sounds like the reality of malpractice is what I thought it is -- A lot of settlements just to get people out of their hair.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

You may be a nice kid now but soon you will be given way too much power and become an asshole.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I was responding to posts opposing the couple, which claimed that since the test is so accurate, the couple doesn't have a leg to stand on. Now you say the posters were wrong and the test is unreliable. Well, then you negated a couple of your compatriots in this thread, and the couple should sue the hospital to eliminate the test. Lawsuit either way.

Oh.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

It sounds like the reality of malpractice is what I thought it is -- A lot of settlements just to get people out of their hair.

Actually, that's really it when it comes to medical malpractice lawsuits. Plaintiff attorneys test the resolve of insurance carriers as to whether or not they want to spend $150,000 to go to trial or just pony up some money along the way. Insurance companies test the plaintiff's resolve by aptly demonstrating the weakness of their case and whether or not they want to spend $6-20,000 putting on a trial. Most the costs are for experts. That said, more often than not if they lose or the case is dismissed they stiff the money owed to the expert(s) and laugh about it. That's why plaintiffs often have a hard time finding quality experts unless they have the money to put into it up front. And poor people who may have a righteous case but no money are really up against the eight ball- although those usually settle out fairly quickly.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Flat-out.... You can't deny the couple are money-grubbing whores.

Hospitals have made mistakes that in hindsight, cost my family to individuals. But we were comfortable with the doctors, comfortable with their guidance, and in the end, two family members were lost. Both were tragedies, but color us dumb for not expecting the hospital and science to be perfect.

Both of these situations were serious enough that the hospital's legal counsel requested to discuss with us and/or our attorneys. We declined to meet, and we declined to seek compensation. We weren't comfortable be greedy, money-grabby whores and holding our hands out looking to cash in on another person's mistake(s).

My point isn't that they didn't have a leg to stand on. Legally, they likely did, and that's why an attorney was willing to represent them. I'm just saying that if everyone took every opportunity to take a free hand out at every opportunity that presented itself, the system would be even more reprehensible than it is. So kudos to that couple for continuing the trend. The couple could have chosen to expose the issue and forced OHSU to ensure it didn't happen again to the best of their abilities. Instead, they put a price tag on their child and his/her care. If it's such a hardship for them, they should have simply given the child up.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I'll be curious to see how the family's lifestyle changes over the next few years. Whether or not they get the Range Rover, upgrade house... or whether or not they keep their current profile and really do use the money for their child. I know the insurance company I work for pays for moth of the things they sued for. It'd be nice if a news agency tracked them with their new found riches.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I'll be curious to see how the family's lifestyle changes over the next few years. Whether or not they get the Range Rover, upgrade house... or whether or not they keep their current profile and really do use the money for their child. I know the insurance company I work for pays for moth of the things they sued for. It'd be nice if a news agency tracked them with their new found riches.

look at them, she's a stepford wife. they're going to buy a rover and granite countertops with the money.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I agree with Denny's comments. The hospital was negligent when they performed the test. Even though the test is not 100% accurate, it robbed the couple of a huge indicator. What they did with that information is there choice.

After the fact, I think the settlement was far too much. If the kid is that big of a burden, let someone else have it. Once they found out that the kid had Downs, it is entirely their choice what to do from that point forward. The administrator of the test should be liable, but not for offsetting the cost of a different life. My fear that would be other tests would be tampered with because of religious or personal beliefs. Reprecussions are the only way to deter this.

If the kid ends up also having a million dollar talent, does the hospital get a share of that?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I agree with Denny's comments. The hospital was negligent when they performed the test. Even though the test is not 100% accurate, it robbed the couple of a huge indicator. What they did with that information is there choice.

After the fact, I think the settlement was far too much. If the kid is that big of a burden, let someone else have it. Once they found out that the kid had Downs, it is entirely their choice what to do from that point forward. The administrator of the test should be liable, but not for offsetting the cost of a different life. My fear that would be other tests would be tampered with because of religious or personal beliefs. Reprecussions are the only way to deter this.

If the kid ends up also having a million dollar talent, does the hospital get a share of that?

Legally speaking, there's a big difference between unintended outcome, negligence and malpractice. All too often people like Denny assume that anything that appears to go wrong is automatically malpractice. That way of thinking may appear logical, but is far away from the truth of the matter.

 

[MARIS61]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Lulz on you calling the reference a stereotype. I was simply responding to another poster's assertion that history shows, cases like this in Multnomah County side in favor of the plaintiff. I didn't say if it were in any other county, it would be any different. I don't pay attention to those counties. Just simply, I agree that if history is an indication (some people say history is the best indicator of the future), the couple would win.

Historically, as you put it, civil and criminal courts and juries in all 50 states "side" with the plaintiff more often than not. Common sense says this is because people who have been wronged make up the vast majority of plaintiffs, for obvious reasons.

It's a sign that maybe good triumphs over evil more than not in our Justice System.

BTW, in a criminal court the plaintiff is represented by the DA for free. In a civil court the plaintiff must hire representation.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

Legally speaking, there's a big difference between unintended outcome, negligence and malpractice. All too often people like Denny assume that anything that appears to go wrong is automatically malpractice. That way of thinking may appear logical, but is far away from the truth of the matter.

I make no such assumption. From what I see in the article, the doctors/hospital/labs did not perform the test to standards. Harm was done to the parents.

If the test were performed to standards, and it said .1% chance of Downs, and the child was born with Downs, there is no case.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I spoke with someone today who in turn spoke with one of the attorneys who has spoken to a juror. As suspected it was a sympathy jury and the facts were not much debated. That's not to say they wouldn't have reached the same conclusion had they been a "fact" jury, but for an award like that on such shaky evidence sure made it appear like a sympathy jury.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I make no such assumption.

In that case, I apologize.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I keep asking, didn't you guys read the article?

The test was performed wrong. The person took the sample from the mother, not the baby. After he completely botched it, there were 2 other tests, ultrasounds, which indicated Downs, which should have caused more testing.

What is the issue? You keep claiming that the issue is, when the test is done right, there's always a risk of a wrong prediction. Irrelevant.

If you go in to have a tooth extracted and he amputates your nose, will you sue? If 2 further tests show you have no nose now, and the lab does nothing about it, will you sue?

I guess not. After all, there's always a small risk in extracting a tooth.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I keep asking, didn't you guys read the article?

The test was performed wrong. The person took the sample from the mother, not the baby. After he completely botched it, there were 2 other tests, ultrasounds, which indicated Downs, which should have caused more testing.

What is the issue? You keep claiming that the issue is, when the test is done right, there's always a risk of a wrong prediction. Irrelevant.

If you go in to have a tooth extracted and he amputates your nose, will you sue? If 2 further tests show you have no nose now, and the lab does nothing about it, will you sue?

I guess not. After all, there's always a small risk in extracting a tooth.

Clearly they should have just aborted the retard. That's what they wanted to do, had they known the risks of having a child after the age of 35. Having a second test probably gave them the security of knowing that their gene pool was pure.

I feel bad for the Legacy members who will have to pay for this, and for the child who will never find out that her parents wanted her dead, had they known what a burden she would be for them and their smarter kids.

Kudos to the person who called this verdict for Multnomah County. John Edwards made a fortune off of this type of thing with similar juries.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

The suit also faults Legacy for reassuring her that her baby didn't have an extra 21st chromosome even though two ultrasounds allegedly raised red flags by showing traits of Down syndrome.

I read the article after you asked nicely though. I think they should have to choose between the kid or money though. If they really love the child, they should not be worried about the financial aspect of raising her.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I can't get over how horrible these parents come across as in the original article. I'm guessing their social circle is going to get a lot smaller. What friend of theirs could look at their daughter knowing that her parents wanted her dead?

I'm guessing they'll be divorced within 2 years, and will ruin their other kids' lives as well.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I read the article after you asked nicely though. I think they should have to choose between the kid or money though. If they really love the child, they should not be worried about the financial aspect of raising her.

Too be fair, that's what the lawsuit alleges, and is one account of what actually occurred. There likely isn't any actual audio or video proof to validate this claim.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

The jury heard the competing experts and decided you're wrong. It's already over.

Many kids hear from their parents that the parents had decided on no more children, then along came this little surprise. It's really no big deal to hear that they didn't want to have you, but once you were born, that they loved you. Kids were hearing this long before abortion was legal (e.g. my sister, the youngest of my siblings, born 6 years after my parents thought they were done having babies).

"We didn't want to have you, but once we did, you're part of the family." Oh, I am so hurt. Waaah.

 

[MARIS61]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

The cost of supporting someone with downs syndrome is usually borne by all of us through higher insurance premiums and higher taxes. Unless the parents are retired millionaires, there's simply no way to do it without enormous financial help.

These people acted responsibly in paying for tests to determine if it was likely and Legacy was incompetent in performing the tests, and later intentionally deceived them about the result.

While the money will help defray costs for some time, it does not approach the true costs that will accrue over the child/adult's lifetime. At some point in the future social services (taxpayers) will be paying the bulk of it, as it does with all disabled Americans who are unable to work.

More importantly, the buffoons who did the tests should be barred from the field of medicine before they cause someone's untimely death.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

The cost of supporting someone with downs syndrome is usually borne by all of us through higher insurance premiums and higher taxes. Unless the parents are retired millionaires, there's simply no way to do it without enormous financial help.

These people acted responsibly in paying for tests to determine if it was likely and Legacy was incompetent in performing the tests, and later intentionally deceived them about the result.

While the money will help defray costs for some time, it does not approach the true costs that will accrue over the child/adult's lifetime. At some point in the future social services (taxpayers) will be paying the bulk of it, as it does with all disabled Americans who are unable to work.

More importantly, the buffoons who did the tests should be barred from the field of medicine before they cause someone's untimely death.

I get that the system protects and allows the parents to find fault with the hospitals and sue. I totally get that that. I think everyone here gets that. So the bantering back-and-forth is pointless (not referring to you, Maris). Myself, and a several others in this thread, just think the system is flawed and that the parents are shitty and greedy (which they are).

But we will all pay for this one way or another. This suit opens up a big door potentially, and puts hospitals at more risk for lawsuits. Increased risks = increased costs. So, thanks greedy bitches for potentially taking money out of everyone else's hands and into your own pockets.

Congrats on your win, you money-grubbing whores. You're now the prostitute mother, with her kids, living on welfare and food stamps (so US taxpayers) because you decided to have kids and ask everyone else to pay for them.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

"We didn't want to have you, but once we did, you're part of the family." Oh, I am so hurt. Waaah.

Not surprised this thought came through your mind - you've probably heard this a lot in your lifetime, no?

 

[MARIS61]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

I get that the system protects and allows the parents to find fault with the hospitals and sue. I totally get that that. I think everyone here gets that. So the bantering back-and-forth is pointless (not referring to you, Maris). Myself, and a several others in this thread, just think the system is flawed and that the parents are shitty and greedy (which they are).

But we will all pay for this one way or another. This suit opens up a big door potentially, and puts hospitals at more risk for lawsuits. Increased risks = increased costs. So, thanks greedy bitches for potentially taking money out of everyone else's hands and into your own pockets.

Congrats on your win, you money-grubbing whores. You're now the prostitute mother, with her kids, living on welfare and food stamps (so US taxpayers) because you decided to have kids and ask everyone else to pay for them.

They went ahead with the birth only on the incompetent and dishonest information provided by Legacy. Legacy's mistakes are the singular reason we will all pay to care for this person from birth to death.

You can obviously rant at Legacy for their crime, but why do you blame the parents for being deceived by their healthcare provider and tricked into bringing this burden on society?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Re: Portland couple sues Legacy Health $3 million for their Child Born with Down Synd

They went ahead with the birth only on the incompetent and dishonest information provided by Legacy. Legacy's mistakes are the singular reason we will all pay to care for this person from birth to death.

You can obviously rant at Legacy for their crime, but why do you blame the parents for being deceived by their healthcare provider and tricked into bringing this burden on society?

I think the hospital messed up - don't get me wrong - never said they didn't.

But if it's such a burden, give the child up. Nobody forced them to keep the child. I know plenty of people who have adopted special needs/retarded children. They basically have said they didn't want the child if it was going to be retarded. Well, the child arrived and it was retarded. They didn't want to be burdened. So they sue to make someone else pay for their burden. Except, as other posters above have said, I wonder what really will happen with the money. Will that money be set aside to cover the cost of a care facility when the child is too much for others to care for (and/or the parents are deceased)? Or will they use some of it for the frivolous things? It wouldn't shock me if they blew through it, and then wait for another hand-out if/when the child one day has to live in a care facility.