Politics Portland is one of the fastest shrinking cities in the USA

[MadeFromDust]

Once voted the most livable US city, now it appears people cannot leave quickly enough. What do you think is going wrong?

 

[Shaboid]

Let's ask Lillard...

 

[Natebishop3]

Once voted the most livable US city, now it appears people cannot leave quickly enough. What do you think is going wrong?

Homeless
Crime
The city is just dirtier than it used to be.
Incompetent government
Cost of living
Taxes

I never felt like there was a part of town that I would not go to, but now I rarely venture into downtown or the east side just because I don't want to deal with it. I used to work downtown.

 

[riverman]

Wonderful news! When I left it was getting way too crowded and that was over two decades ago. They must be doing something right when the Californians decide to leave after inflating the cost of housing! If you're going to be a small market city...own it!

 

[MadeFromDust]

Wonderful news! When I left it was getting way too crowded and that was over two decades ago. They must be doing something right when the Californians decide to leave after inflating the cost of housing! If you're going to be a small market city...own it!

Wait so you feel like this is probably a good thing then, regardless of the reason might be?

 

[Natebishop3]

Wonderful news! When I left it was getting way too crowded and that was over two decades ago. They must be doing something right when the Californians decide to leave after inflating the cost of housing! If you're going to be a small market city...own it!

They're not leaving the metro area though. They're just moving out into the burbs.

When I moved out of Portland proper in 2015, I got a house in Hillsboro for $260k. That was about half of what houses were going for in Portland. When we moved a year ago, the housing prices are basically exactly the same no matter where we looked. Vancouver, Wilsonville, Beaverton, Hillsboro, hell.... even Silverton was about the same cost. People still want to move to the metro area, they just don't want to live in the city because the city is a dump.

 

[riverman]

Wait so you feel like this is probably a good thing then, regardless of the reason might be?

Sure...cities in general are overpopulated and it's a rare thing when the overcrowding spills over and balances itself out...all my friends in Portland will love being able to drive and actually park in the city without feeling like they are in Los Angeles. I like small cities more than overcrowded urban sprawls. Portland as I said, got too crowded for me over two decades ago. Don't worry, more people will move there in time. When it's 140 degrees down south it'll look good again. I lived in Wilsonville and driving into the city got more of more dense over time way back then...Eugene is a much more friendly city to drive around in and through and find a parking spot...don't regret the choice at all.

 

[e_blazer]

Cost of living, especially housing costs, is the primary driver. People are moving to the southeast because housing costs are 40-50% lower.

https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/fastest-growing-places

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Wait so you feel like this is probably a good thing then, regardless of the reason might be?

I'd consider it a good thing if it forces city government to pull their heads out of their collective asses and start doing things to reverse the drain. They have been complacent for far too long because push never came to shove. People are now voting with their feet. Shrinking tax revenues will hopefully wake the City Council up.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Sure...cities in general are overpopulated and it's a rare thing when the overcrowding spills over and balances itself out...all my friends in Portland will love being able to drive and actually park in the city without feeling like they are in Los Angeles. I like small cities more than overcrowded urban sprawls. Portland as I said, got too crowded for me over two decades ago. Don't worry, more people will move there in time. When it's 140 degrees down south it'll look good again. I lived in Wilsonville and driving into the city got more of more dense over time way back then...Eugene is a much more friendly city to drive around in and through and find a parking spot...don't regret the choice at all.

I've lived in Wilsonville since 1986. We used to go into Portland several times a week. But in the past 10 years or so the traffic in and out has gotten exponentially worse. If/when we go in now, we plan carefully and head in early. The inner east side is still vibrant and enjoyable, but they have thrown up so much housing with absolutely NO parking provided. So that makes things even worse. They have also removed vehicle lanes for streets that used to have good flow and added bike lanes that rarely get used. City government has taken a lot of the pleasure out of visiting Portland. Portland's motto should be, "The City That Shot Itself In The Foot"......

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I've lived in Wilsonville since 1986. We used to go into Portland several times a week. But in the past 10 years or so the traffic in and out has gotten exponentially worse. If/when we go in now, we plan carefully and head in early. The inner east side is still vibrant and enjoyable, but they have thrown up so much housing with absolutely NO parking provided. So that makes things even worse. They have also removed vehicle lanes for streets that used to have good flow and added bike lanes that rarely get used. City government has taken a lot of the pleasure out of visiting Portland. Portland's motto should be, "The City That Shot Itself In The Foot"......

The City of Portland's plan to annoy people out of their cars is fucking stupid. All of these giant apartment complexes with no parking has ruined neighborhoods near them.

 

[julius]

The City of Portland's plan to annoy people out of their cars is fucking stupid. All of these giant apartment complexes with no parking has ruined neighborhoods near them.

They've also changed what it is, Foster and Division (and others?) to 2 lane instead of 2 lanes going each way. And then they've made it so there are weird parking set ups on roads.

It's like the UGB on crack. Had a purpose, but has long since gone away from it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

On a similar note, I was in SF a couple of weeks ago for work. A colleague and I finished up about 8 and found a dinner place. I was about to pass on drinks and see if there was a fun local bar to go to afterward and the answer was "dude, it's 9pm on a weeknight. Nothing's open around here--the city is dead."

I wouldn't have imagined it would be that way in downtown SF. I'm not talking Oakland or San Mateo or ...

Then two of the largest hotels in SF just gave the city the keys and defaulted. From afar, it seems like it's happening in a lot of spaces where COVID restrictions hit harder (some Seattle friends are also on the way out) and where tax and government are overcoming the pleasure of living in the beautiful West Coast. My family isn't likely to return soon, even with some interesting job offers in SEA and LA/SD.

 

[MadeFromDust]

On a similar note, I was in SF a couple of weeks ago for work. A colleague and I finished up about 8 and found a dinner place. I was about to pass on drinks and see if there was a fun local bar to go to afterward and the answer was "dude, it's 9pm on a weeknight. Nothing's open around here--the city is dead."

I wouldn't have imagined it would be that way in downtown SF. I'm not talking Oakland or San Mateo or ...

Then two of the largest hotels in SF just gave the city the keys and defaulted. From afar, it seems like it's happening in a lot of spaces where COVID restrictions hit harder (some Seattle friends are also on the way out) and where tax and government are overcoming the pleasure of living in the beautiful West Coast. My family isn't likely to return soon, even with some interesting job offers in SEA and LA/SD.

Interesting. If only we could find some kind of correlation between cities like Portland, Seattle and SF...

 

[riverman]

Interesting. If only we could find some kind of correlation between cities like Portland, Seattle and SF...

This is happening all over the country..people tend to forget what forest fires and a global pandemic did to the people who were just getting by before all this in the NW but it's happening in most urban population centers....winters aren't as brutal in the cities you mentioned compared to Boston or Chicago or New York City. Los Angeles has a 58 block long skid row....why? You won't freeze to death sleeping in a cardboard box probably

 

[MadeFromDust]

This is happening all over the country..people tend to forget what forest fires and a global pandemic did to the people who were just getting by before all this in the NW but it's happening in most urban population centers....winters aren't as brutal in the cities you mentioned compared to Boston or Chicago or New York City. Los Angeles has a 58 block long skid row....why? You won't freeze to death sleeping in a cardboard box probably

I understand that there may be other factors involved but the elephant in the room is the terrible politics & policies that these cities have espoused in recent years that are squeezing the population out at an increasingly rapid rate. I visited Anaheim, CA late last year for the first time since 2018 and was shocked at how much the city had degraded since I was last there. Hopefully a breaking point will come soon and the people will continue to vote with their feet because it's very sad to see these once strong and beautiful cities completely destroying themselves.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The City of Portland's plan to annoy people out of their cars is fucking stupid. All of these giant apartment complexes with no parking has ruined neighborhoods near them.

They need to ensure there is public transit that is safe and enjoyable, as well as faster and cheaper than driving. To do that, you'll have to solve the homeless problem in the process.

But, if they can manage it, Portland and the surrounding areas will be a mecca of industry and commerce.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

They've also changed what it is, Foster and Division (and others?) to 2 lane instead of 2 lanes going each way. And then they've made it so there are weird parking set ups on roads.

It's like the UGB on crack. Had a purpose, but has long since gone away from it.

Foster was one of the streets I was alluding to. It was the one street on the southeast side that flowed smoothly virtually 24/7. Now it's a slow moving, stop and go bottleneck. No rhyme or reason other than "progress".......

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Foster was one of the streets I was alluding to. It was the one street on the southeast side that flowed smoothly virtually 24/7. Now it's a slow moving, stop and go bottleneck. No rhyme or reason other than "progress".......

They fucked Foster and Division.

 

[Natebishop3]

Foster was one of the streets I was alluding to. It was the one street on the southeast side that flowed smoothly virtually 24/7. Now it's a slow moving, stop and go bottleneck. No rhyme or reason other than "progress".......

That's because the people running the city don't think logically. They think with their "progressive" brains.

We can't do anything about the homeless that would be mean! Sorry.... houseless.

We can't do anything about the druggies? That would be mean!

We can't do anything about the people tearing up the city with riots and protests! They would think we support racism.

Everyone is going to want to ride a bike 365 days a year.... in the rain.

Everyone is going to want to ride MAX.... except all the park and rides are full and the trains are crammed, but the roads are still packed.

 

[Phatguysrule]

That's because the people running the city don't think logically. They think with their "progressive" brains.

We can't do anything about the homeless that would be mean! Sorry.... houseless.

They have the money. There is nothing mean about getting them in homes.

We can't do anything about the druggies? That would be mean!

Druggies aren't the problem unless they are doing it out in the open or committing theft or violence. Get them homes, treatment, and get the police to do their jobs and this problem would be solved.

We can't do anything about the people tearing up the city with riots and protests! They would think we support racism.

Police just needed to arrest thw people who were actually doing damage rather than harassing everyone. Get the police to actually do their job.

Everyone is going to want to ride a bike 365 days a year.... in the rain.

Fix public transit and this won't be a problem. It's doable.

Everyone is going to want to ride MAX.... except all the park and rides are full and the trains are crammed, but the roads are still packed.

Yep, need to go all in on public transit to make it faster than driving.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

So move to Portland, become a homeless junkie and get a free house.

Man am i on the wrong path…..

anyone have a needle i can borrow?

 

[Phatguysrule]

So move to Portland, become a homeless junkie and get a free house.

Man am i on the wrong path…..

anyone have a needle i can borrow?

And lose the ability to take vacations (that requires income which would exclude you from free housing) or to pick your neighbors, or to afford a decent vehicle, or a nice phone, or a decent computer, TV, decent clothes... Pretty much anything of value or any life most healthy people want.

Being a junkie would only mean you have a lower quality of life and more rehab and counseling to attend... Not sure why you'd want that. It should be irrelevant to housing.

And it should certainly not be limited to Portland. In fact, it shouldn't be available to anybody who has to move there. This should be available to all local people, in their home towns, or even better funded at the federal level to allow for maximum flexibility.

These points have been discussed many times and every problem has a logical solution which has been most effectively solved or at least improved in the real world via the housing first method.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

And lose the ability to take vacations (that requires income which would exclude you from free housing) or to pick your neighbors, or to afford a decent vehicle, or a nice phone, or a decent computer, TV, decent clothes... Pretty much anything of value or any life most healthy people want.

Being a junkie would only mean you have a lower quality of life and more rehab and counseling to attend... Not sure why you'd want that. It should be irrelevant to housing.

And it should certainly not be limited to Portland. In fact, it shouldn't be available to anybody who has to move there. This should be available to all local people, in their home towns, or even better funded at the federal level to allow for maximum flexibility.

These points have been discussed many times and every problem has a logical solution which has been most effectively solved or at least improved in the real world via the housing first method.

meh. Life will be one big vacation with all this money the gov has to support my habits.
Who needs work when i can get free housing?

How do you come to your conclusions? Homeless jobless people have phones.

got a needle? These incentives are too good to pass up.

 

[Voodoo]

meh. Life will be one big vacation with all this money the gov has to support my habits.
Who needs work when i can get free housing?

How do you come to your conclusions? Homeless jobless people have phones.

got a needle? These incentives are too good to pass up.

What @Phatguysrule is referring to is the policy called housing first, it’s objectively proven to work. It worked in Finland, and has worked in Utah.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-46891392

If you really want to go live on the streets to get in a queue to be provided a free spartan place to live with no other luxuries, no one is stopping you, go for it. The rest of us just want to see something done to get these folks off the streets and the city cleaned up, and we’re following the science to make that happen.

If you have a better idea on how to do that then let’s hear it, if not then you’re tilting at windmills because the science is there.

 

[Phatguysrule]

meh. Life will be one big vacation with all this money the gov has to support my habits.
Who needs work when i can get free housing?

How do you come to your conclusions? Homeless jobless people have phones.

got a needle? These incentives are too good to pass up.

Most jobless and homeless don't have nice phones. Or anything nice. And all people want and appreciate nice things. That's human nature. Housing first takes advantage of that nature to encourage people to keep improving their situation.

The court has been clear, as recently as this week. It's not constitutional to punish people for being homeless. You can't exclude them from sleeping in public spaces unless they have a safe and secure place to rest. In other words, a home.

You can be upset about that all you want, but we have constitutional rights to protect individuals from the tyranny of the majority, and I am opposed to restrictions on individual constitutional rights in every case I can think of.

It is cheaper and more effective to get these people in homes, as I have shown many many times. It also makes every problem they have easier and cheaper to treat and/or solve more effectively.

Refusing to do so is simply chopping our noses off to spite our faces.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Someone should make a needle app for smartphones. Just put the drugs in your phone and then rub it over your arm.

#ProblemSolved

 

[THE HCP]

T

Homeless
Crime
The city is just dirtier than it used to be.
Incompetent government
Cost of living
Taxes

I never felt like there was a part of town that I would not go to, but now I rarely venture into downtown or the east side just because I don't want to deal with it. I used to work downtown.

Barely survived over here on the “EastSide” last night. PHEW

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Maybe Portland isn't shrinking...

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Someone should make a needle app for smartphones. Just put the drugs in your phone and then rub it over your arm.

#ProblemSolved

like an all purpose phone with a bottle opener on one side and a replaceable needle injector on the other.
Brilliant!!!
Where do i preorder?