Portlands best lineup last year

[Nate]

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612757/lineups/advanced/?t=portland-trail-blazers&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular Season

Interesting to look at. I think this is another example of why we only need a tweak to make this team elite. Replacing Vonleh with harkless drastically improved our team. That being said, I still want Vonleh around long term! I believe in that little fucker!

 

[Sinobas]

I was asking all year why the hell Vonleh was starting.

 

[Nate]

Trying to see if he was any good I suppose! He definitely needs to come off the bench for a couple more seasons.

 

[B-Roy]

Vonleh is not good enough to be a rotation player for 29 teams in the league. I am fine with him sitting the pine next year as well since Portland has a pretty good track record of developing players even though they aren't getting consistent rotation minutes.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I was asking all year why the hell Vonleh was starting.

Because this was a year to learn about our young guys and Vonleh wasn't really hurting anything by playing.

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's interesting that if you sort them lineups by minutes played, the two that stand out, by far are:

Aminu,Al-Farouq - Harkless,Maurice - Lillard,Damian - McCollum,CJ - Plumlee,Mason: 22-14

Crabbe,Allen - Davis,Ed - Henderson,Gerald - Leonard,Meyers - McCollum,CJ: 21-13

Assuming no personnel changes (or minor tweaks) the first should clearly be our starting line-up and the second should be the second unit when Lilllard rests.

The only other one in the top 10 with a winning record is:

Crabbe,Allen - Davis,Ed - Henderson,Gerald - Leonard,Meyers - Lillard,Damian 17-13

Which is basically the same as the second line up with Dame in place of C.J. The fact that Davis/Leonard and Crabbe/Henderson pair well together passes the eye test. Meyers spreads the floor while Ed works down low and Henderson's slashing and midrange game compliments Crabbe's spot up long distance shooting.

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

Good look.

14.4 net rating per 100 possessions is pretty sick. GS' starting lineup for the year was at 13.2

Their death lineup with Draymond @ C was at a net rating of 47. Holy shit.

 

[Nate]

I think it also would've looked funny if we traded batum for an injured guy and a guy that we thought sucked so bad that he shouldn't play. People quickly forgot about last years team though. Thankfully.

 

[B-Roy]

Because this was a year to learn about our young guys and Vonleh wasn't really hurting anything by playing.

I think they were operating for the longest time under the assumption that this was going to be a development year. Once we had a shot at not only playoffs but a higher seeding you could almost see the moment Stotts went "Oh shit, we might have a shot at this" and promptly sat Vonleh for the rest of the year.

In the team's current position, I only want Vonleh to be playing if he's earning the minutes. No handholding just because he was traded for Batum or because he needs "development". Quite frankly, he hasn't earned any minutes with his play so far. Both his traditional and advanced statistics are terrible and the eye test matches those conclusions as well.

 

[Nate]

I think they were operating for the longest time under the assumption that this was going to be a development year. Once we had a shot at not only playoffs but a higher seeding you could almost see the moment Stotts went "Oh shit, we might have a shot at this" and promptly sat Vonleh for the rest of the year.

In the team's current position, I only want Vonleh to be playing if he's earning the minutes. No handholding just because he was traded for Batum or because he needs "development". Quite frankly, he hasn't earned any minutes with his play so far. Both his traditional and advanced statistics are terrible and the eye test matches those conclusions as well.

I completely agree. Besides one thing. I think the eye test on Vonleh shows a lot of potential.

 

[B-Roy]

I completely agree. Besides one thing. I think the eye test on Vonleh shows a lot of potential.

He's shown about as much as most athletic young guys, good athletic ability and a few highlight plays that shows off said athleticism. But nothing that shows him to be a competent or effective NBA player at the moment.

 

[HailBlazers]

I was asking all year why the hell Vonleh was starting.

And you weren't accepting the answer all year long as well.

 

[Nate]

He's shown about as much as most athletic young guys, good athletic ability and a few highlight plays that shows off said athleticism. But nothing that shows him to be a competent or effective NBA player at the moment.

There's a few things I really like about him besides his size and athletic ability. He's a good free throw shooter, he has good footwork, he can switch on guards on defense, and he has a pretty looking jumper. He looked so nervous out there all year though. It was like he didn't want to shoot as he was shooting. It was basically his first year as a pro. He probably felt a lot of pressure replacing Aldridge, and being the guy that batum was traded for. I think he'll figure it out. Meyers has had no pressure and still sucks...

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I think they were operating for the longest time under the assumption that this was going to be a development year. Once we had a shot at not only playoffs but a higher seeding you could almost see the moment Stotts went "Oh shit, we might have a shot at this" and promptly sat Vonleh for the rest of the year.

Yep; he had a good run in January, but when the teams got tougher to beat, Harkless was the better answer. Stotts is just so dang good as maximizing the effectiveness of a raw player like Vonleh, when he's given a situation where the team is undersized and very young, and Meyers wasn't working out AT ALL as a starter with Plums.

 

[Boob-No-More]

There's a few things I really like about him besides his size and athletic ability. He's a good free throw shooter, he has good footwork, he can switch on guards on defense, and he has a pretty looking jumper. He looked so nervous out there all year though. It was like he didn't want to shoot as he was shooting. It was basically his first year as a pro. He probably felt a lot of pressure replacing Aldridge, and being the guy that batum was traded for. I think he'll figure it out. Meyers has had no pressure and still sucks...

You were making some good points until that last sentence. Perhaps you meant, Meyers still sucks at some things. If not, you may want to go back and look at how Dame and C.J. fared when Meyer's was on the floor. Of the top 10 lineups, in terms of minutes played, only three had winning records two of the three, with Meyers on the floor.

Meyers is till a work in progress, but the one NBA skill he definitely has is shooting the ball, which creates space and scoring opportunities for his teammates. Ironically, it's one skill many in this same thread hope Vonleh, with enough time, practice and development can one day possess.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

YMeyers wasn't working out AT ALL as a starter with Plums.

I think the sample size is too small to make that conclusion. Meyers only started 10 games, at the beginning of the season. He was in a horrible shooting slump at the beginning of the season and his 3-point shooting improved in every month of the season.

Moving Aminu to the 4 and starting Harkless was definitely the right move, but Meyers played very well alongside Ed Davis, which makes me think he could be equally effective when paired with Mason Plumlee. Or, just leave him on the second unit with Davis as we know that works.

BNM

 

[B-Roy]

I think the sample size is too small to make that conclusion. Meyers only started 10 games, at the beginning of the season. He was in a horrible shooting slump at the beginning of the season and his 3-point shooting improved in every month of the season.

Moving Aminu to the 4 and starting Harkless was definitely the right move, but Meyers played very well alongside Ed Davis, which makes me think he could be equally effective when paired with Mason Plumlee. Or, just leave him on the second unit with Davis as we know that works.

BNM

I think Davis moved his feet better guarding perimeter 4s than Plumlee, that was why Stotts liked Meyers better with Davis. Since Meyers pretty much has to play the 5 on defense.

Beyond that, I think it's interesting that CJ, Dame and Meyers had the best box +/- on the season. Obviously a stat with a lot of noise, but I think it shows some stuff as far as a player's impact on their own team.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Wasn't this line up usually against the other team's 2nd unit?

Crabbe,Allen - Davis,Ed - Henderson,Gerald - Leonard,Meyers - McCollum,CJ: 21-13

It is interesting, but it not like we are comparing Apples to Apples. We do need an effective bench line up, but I am more interested in the finishing line ups against the other teams starters. But that is hard to gauge as well since they often change due to many variables (i.e foul trouble, foul shooting, different match ups, who is hot, offense for defense....)

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think Davis moved his feet better guarding perimeter 4s than Plumlee, that was why Stotts liked Meyers better with Davis. Since Meyers pretty much has to play the 5 on offense.

Beyond that, I think it's interesting that CJ, Dame and Meyers had the best box +/- on the season. Obviously a stat with a lot of noise, but I think it shows some stuff as far as a player's impact on their own team.

Yeah, although Meyers still has holes in his game, a lot of the team performance metrics show he has a positive impact on his team when he's on the court. The NBA game has evolved, but putting the ball in the basket is still the goal, and because Meyers can do that, especially from distance, it helps create easy opportunities for his teammates.

I think that's why Charles Barkely likes Meyers so much and thinks it's important for the Blazers to re-sign him. I remember late in his career, Eddie Johnson had a big game in the playoffs. He scored 30 something points and HOU won the game. At the time, Barkley and Johnson were teammates and when a reporter asked Barkley if he was surprised by Johnson's scoring outburst, Barkely said no he wasn't, because if you can shoot the basketball, there will always be a place for you in the NBA.

Meyers may lack other skills, but he can shoot the basketball. There is no denying that.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Wasn't this line up usually against the other team's 2nd unit?

Crabbe,Allen - Davis,Ed - Henderson,Gerald - Leonard,Meyers - McCollum,CJ: 21-13

It is interesting, but it not like we are comparing Apples to Apples. We do need an effective bench line up, but I am more interested in the finishing line ups against the other teams starters. But that is hard to gauge as well since they often change due to many variables (i.e foul trouble, foul shooting, different match ups, who is hot, offense for defense....)

Yep, it was because Vonleh was starting and Meyers was coming off the bench. After many years of our bench surrendering leads, it was nice to see a 2nd unit actually BUILD leads for a change.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Meyers is till a work in progress, but the one NBA skill he definitely has is shooting the ball, which creates space and scoring opportunities for his teammates. Ironically, it's one skill many in this same thread hope Vonleh, with enough time, practice and development can one day possess.

BNM

Further, he is also a very good passer as well as an excellent communicator on offense. Even when he's not shooting well--or even shooting at all--he is generally a significant benefit on that end of the floor.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Further, he is also a very good passer as well as an excellent communicator on offense. Even when he's not shooting well--or even shooting at all--he is generally a significant benefit on that end of the floor.

The fact that he CAN shoot the ball well, makes other teams respect his shooting even when he's not making the shots. Like I said he started off last year in a terrible shooting slump, but his 3-point shooting improved every month of the season. By January it was up to .414, February was .452 and March .462.

That's like having a 7'1" Kyle Korver on your roster. Even when he's having an off night, you still need to guard him out to the 3-point line. That opens the lane for C.J. and Dame to drive and also created space for Henderson's slashing and midrange game.

BNM

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Further, he is also a very good passer as well as an excellent communicator on offense. Even when he's not shooting well--or even shooting at all--he is generally a significant benefit on that end of the floor.

And the psychological effect on opposing players. I don't know what he does out there, but he inevitably majorly pisses off the opposing center. Usually that means their offense stagnates as they try to focus on beating Meyers, but it rarely works.

 

[stampedehero]

And you weren't accepting the answer all year long as well.

Add that ? mark
Kersey =heart and soul With you bro.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

The fact that he CAN shoot the ball well, makes other teams respect his shooting even when he's not making the shots. Like I said he started off last year in a terrible shooting slump, but his 3-point shooting improved every month of the season. By January it was up to .414, February was .452 and March .462.

That's like having a 7'1" Kyle Korver on your roster. Even when he's having an off night, you still need to guard him out to the 3-point line. That opens the lane for C.J. and Dame to drive and also created space for Henderson's slashing and midrange game.

BNM

We really missed him in the playoffs... Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a ticking box from MM to open.

 

[Boob-No-More]

And the psychological effect on opposing players. I don't know what he does out there, but he inevitably majorly pisses off the opposing center. Usually that means their offense stagnates as they try to focus on beating Meyers, but it rarely works.

I think he's like everybody's annoying little brother. He doesn't try to be annoying, he just is. Not sure if that's a "skill" that can be taught.

BNM

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I think he's like everybody's annoying little brother. He doesn't try to be annoying, he just is. Not sure if that's a "skill" that can be taught.

BNM

Just like Laimbeer was everyone's older cousin sneering as he forces you to hit yourself. Laimbeebs is exactly as annoying in the opposite "aw shucks guys" direction.

 

[Nate]

You were making some good points until that last sentence. Perhaps you meant, Meyers still sucks at some things. If not, you may want to go back and look at how Dame and C.J. fared when Meyer's was on the floor. Of the top 10 lineups, in terms of minutes played, only three had winning records two of the three, with Meyers on the floor.

Meyers is till a work in progress, but the one NBA skill he definitely has is shooting the ball, which creates space and scoring opportunities for his teammates. Ironically, it's one skill many in this same thread hope Vonleh, with enough time, practice and development can one day possess.

BNM

I should've clarified what I meant by sucks. Meyers is great individually in some areas, but he's a niche player. But he looks lost and does some really stupid shit on defense. That's what I meant by sucks, when he's on the floor I have the same feeling that I had about aminu driving to the basket in like December.

Watching him hit threes on kick outs is awesome though, especially when it's a center tryin to chase him out there.

 

[Sinobas]

And you weren't accepting the answer all year long as well.

Because the answer was stupid, and the stats prove that he sucked.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think he's like everybody's annoying little brother. He doesn't try to be annoying, he just is. Not sure if that's a "skill" that can be taught.

BNM

The one thing we can all agree on is that Leonar_ is annoying