Post your Bayless is a PG evidence here

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MARIS61

MARIS61

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I love Bayless for what he is, a relentlessly aggressive SG with speed.

My issue is with posters who think he's our answer at PG, a position he'll clearly never master, nor even be acceptable at.

I'm open to persuasion by facts, so if anyone has any factual, measureable statistics that shows Bayless has shown he is a competent NBA PG in any sense of the word, please post them here.

I am particularly intrigued by those who claim he is somehow "good" at defending PG's.

Not looking for your impressions, or what you think his potential is, just the facts.

What specifically has he done to impress you as a PG? :dunno:
 
MARIS61 said:
I love Bayless for what he is, a relentlessly aggressive SG with speed.

My issue is with posters who think he's our answer at PG, a position he'll clearly never master, nor even be acceptable at.

I'm open to persuasion by facts, so if anyone has any factual, measureable statistics that shows Bayless has shown he is a competent NBA PG in any sense of the word, please post them here.

I am particularly intrigued by those who claim he is somehow "good" at defending PG's.

Not looking for your impressions, or what you think his potential is, just the facts.

What specifically has he done to impress you as a PG? :dunno:
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I think Bayless is a combo guard. What Bayless does really well is attack the basket and he can defend quicker guards as well. This whole PG or SG thing is a bit overblown IMO. Brandon Roy is a better PG than most other teams have on their roster, but in reality he is a SG (combo guard)

It's also impossible to say how Bayless would do as a "PG" because he hasn't been given any kind of consistant minutes with anyone.
 
Bayless was a PG in HS and would have been the PG for the Arizona but he switched to SG when they had a PG they needed to play. Even with Bayless mostly playing SG but some PG he averaged 4 apg. Bayless is the perfect PG next to Roy no matter how hard to try to bash him. You at least need to give him a chance before you start bashing Bayless. He really hasn't had a chance to play consistent PT. I do agree Sergio played better and worked hard this off season and won the backup PG but now or soon Bayless will win the battle and be at least the backup PG if not the starter.
 
The criteria you have for being a PG are flawed. Not everybody is Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, or Chris Paul. I believe that if you look at a Chauncy Billups (who, by the way took years to hit his stride as a PG) or a Gary Payton (who again, took years to really hit his stride as a PG) you will see the type of PG a Bayless can bring to the table. Chauncy and Gary are not necessarily all about passing. They are about defense, team ball, and they carry a bit of the scoring load themselves. I am not saying Bayless will be a perennial all star or glove level player, but that is the style of player he is. His defense is solid, IMO he is the best Blazer guard defender out on the floor already. He is a scorer. He is athletic. The passing will come with playing time.

I don't believe many would throw GP or Billups off their team for taking a couple of shots, and it definitly doesn't make them "Not point guards." because they took those shots.
 
rocketeer said:
i'm glad you provided facts supporting your opinions.
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Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jerryd_bayless/career_stats.html

I know, I know...Jerryd is so special that his stats should be ignored. He's so much better than a 28% shooter. Really. Trust me.

Overall, his stats are horrific so far, but obviously (like Sergio) he doesn't get enough regular PT to really show what he can do. But I am looking for any specific instances where he has looked remotely like he could lead and direct a 5-man offense. Sergio and Steve have each had games where they were phenomenal at it, but Bayless has only been noticeable when he's in full SG mode, going 1-on-1.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Why does Bayless have to have pure PG instincts? What's so bad about a 6-3 guy playing the 1 that plays good defense and plays a little like a SG with some PG mixed in?

I think he's absolutely fine. I'll take what he offers the team over Sergio every single time.
 
hasoos said:
The criteria you have for being a PG are flawed. Not everybody is Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, or Chris Paul.
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Of course not, the only current Blazer who league GM's have compared to those guys is Sergio, but if you had one of them would you play Bayless at PG instead?

I doubt it, but if so then why?
 
Several posters have presented defense as a plus for their arguement.

From what I've seen, he is clueless on defense. Other than a couple of steals he seemingly can't even pester his opponent at all. He gets picked constantly, and faked out of his socks repeatedly.

Any examples where I'm wrong about that?
 
What's your definition of a PG Maris61?
 
Uther TheGardener said:
porter wasnt pass first either...
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Porter most certainly was team-first. He rarely started scoring until he got the other players involved by setting them up.

He often spoke about that as his primary role, getting the whole team involved in the offense.
 
MARIS61 said:
I was the league leader in stolen bases 3 years straight in Little League...

Try again.
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So your basing your opinion on the whopping 144 minutes Bayless has played in the NBA?

Set the rules before you ask the question, like I don't want opinions just my own, no looking at circumstances in college and getting burnt by the ROY twice in the same game means you're no better defensively than Sergio.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I think Bayless is a combo guard. What Bayless does really well is attack the basket and he can defend quicker guards as well.....

.......It's also impossible to say how Bayless would do as a "PG" because he hasn't been given any kind of consistant minutes with anyone.
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TOTALLY agree.

During last night's 4th Quarter, the real Bayless began to emerge. More pt will only serve to prove him out as such.

Hey, there's nothing inherently wrong with combo guards, is there???? Oh, and last I checked, you can still be a Derek Fisher-type and still be successful. "Oh, but he's playing for the mightly Lakers" you say? Sure, but Portland is headed in that same direction. No doubt in my mind.
 
You have your mind made up already and I doubt even if he had stats the same a C.Paul you would think he is better then Sergio. If I were you I would at least wait until we get more PT from Bayless before writing him off.
 
This thread is a sad attempt to rail against the inevitable....

Sergio is done.
 
Shapecity said:
What's your definition of a PG Maris61?
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Magic and Nash are good examples.

They run the show. They direct players actions on the court. They do a multitude of things to set up teammates for easy, high-percentage shots, whether it's drawing double-teams, setting screens, making the pass at the perfect time, angle and placement to match the shooters movement. They confuse and mis-direct the defense by their movements and actions. They include and combine with 4 guys to become 1 weapon.
 
Roy is a combo guard so no... nothing wrong with them.
 
I think Bayless has the capabilities to be a good PG....IMO he will always be more of a scoring PG than a passing one, and frankly that isn't a bad thing on this team b\c right now the starting unit needs someone else to step up and be a consistent scorer besides Roy & Aldridge....I think Oden may eventually develop into that guy....but it could as easily be someone else like Bayless....

As for proof?

In the games I have watched Bayless has shown a good ability to get the ball to teamates in a position to score...he has made some very good passes...He has also made some poor passes...but I don't think this is uncommon for a young PG coming into the league, and Sergio (who I think has very good court vision) still makes some careless passes...So I do think the court vision is there for Bayless, which is important...

I like Bayless Tenacious defense...I like his willingness to attack the basket...although he has to learn how to finish, b\c what worked for him in college (and in summer league) doesn't necessarily work in the NBA....but he is drawing some fouls.....and he needs to work on his outside shooting, which has not been as good as he showed in college......but I think both of these can be corrected given time and effort....which he has shown he is not lacking from....

Basically, he just needs more game time to learn how to run the sets and sharpen his PG abilities...

I don't buy that he is and always will be a SG....I think he has shown the ability to play the PG role, but I think he just needs more time to acclimate himself to that role for POR....and I think a major component of that comes from playing in games....
 
Sergio only logged 5 minutes last night. Back to the dog house for him, unless Nate continues his sporadic substitutions. I'm counting down the days until Sergio starts pouting to the media again.
 
BlazersBlood said:
Sergio only logged 5 minutes last night. Back to the dog house for him, unless Nate continues his sporadic substitutions. I'm counting down the days until Sergio starts pouting to the media again.
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I am counting them down until he is traded. Not that I really want him traded or not, but I think it's gonna happen.
 
MARIS61 said:
Of course not, the only current Blazer who league GM's have compared to those guys is Sergio
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Links please? Who are these "league GM's" that have compared Sergio to Jason Kidd, Steve Nash and Chris Paul? For the life of me, I can't recall, or even imagine, any "league GM" comparing Sergio Rodriguez to Chris Paul. Let me guess "anonymous source".

If you're going to insist others only support their arguments with verifiable facts, I ask that you hold yourself to the same standard.

I really am beginning to wonder if you are, in fact, John Canzano. You seem to want to hold everyone else to a "higher standard", but at the same time seem inclined to make up facts, or discount those presented by others, in order to fit your personal agenda.

BNM
 
Bayless is probably not a pure point guard at the NBA level. That would be a problem for many teams, but it probably isn't for Portland, since they have a shooting guard who can direct an offense, in Roy. Roy, of course, is also not a pure point guard...the answer is not to put in place a pure point guard and take the ball entirely out of Roy's hands.

The answer, in my opinion, is to play him alongside a guard who can shoot the ball, drive and dish to teammates, bring the ball up the floor against pressure, occasionally set up the offense and defend opposing point guards. In other words, a guard who can take on some, not all, of the play-making duties by drawing the defense due to his own scoring ability and then dropping it off for open teammates.

Bayless is a combo guard who seems ideal to play alongside Roy. No need to prove that he's a true point guard. He doesn't need to be.
 
Am I the only one seeing the irony of Mairis slagging on a rookie POINT GUARD, and especially harping on his shooting statistics when he's averaging about 7 minutes a game with 20 DNPs?

If I had the energy or wherewithal to search for it on BBF I could probably resurrect 20 threads started or commented on by Maris bemoaning Sergio's lack of PT as the primary cause of chacho's poor production.

What's so different here?
 
Being a point guard isn't just passing. Sergio can't hit a jumper to save his life most games. You point to Bayless' shooting percentage, but you fail to mention that your boy is shooting 35.5% from the field and a whopping 29.6% from downtown.

In Nate's system we run a high pick-and-roll. What good is Sergio if he can't make a team pay for sagging off him? Blake has become our most effective point guard because he can consistently hit the open three. From what I've seen, Sergio's man can lay back and let him shoot all night.
 
I don't really see why it's Bayless OR Sergio.

In terms of playing time? Yes, it is.

In terms of potential roles and value to the team? Not at all.

Sergio is having a pretty good year. He's had rough stretches, but his shooting seems to have improved (remove the last-second heaves at end of quarters and his 3 point percentage looks markedly better) and his defense isn't much, if any, worse than Blake's.

With that said, Sergio's growth has nothing to do with Bayless's potential. Jerryd has demonstrated an ability to get to the rim already, and it's likely that he will be able to guard point guards at a higher level than either Steve or Sergio. He'll never be a pure PG, but he will be able to do things that, currently, only Roy and Oden can do: put pressure on the defense at the rim and get to the line consistently.

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
He'll never be a pure PG, but he will be able to do things that, currently, only Roy and Oden can do: put pressure on the defense at the rim and get to the line consistently.
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And if you remove the bonehead rookie mistakes, those qualities make him the clear favorite to start in my book.
 
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