Post your Bayless is a PG evidence here

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MARIS61 said:
Of course not, the only current Blazer who league GM's have compared to those guys is Sergio, but if you had one of them would you play Bayless at PG instead?

I doubt it, but if so then why?
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Not at this point. But maybe later. See the thing I was looking at is you said "a position he'll clearly never master". To me, there are only a few guys in the league who have "mastered" the PG position. But many of them master it in their own way. Some are a little more score first.

Did Chauncy Billups win a championship? Yes he did. Was he a score first PG? Yes, he is. But he plays D and gets a few assist. Not a ton. But enough. How big is he? 6'3" tall. Amazing similarities aren't they?

When Chauncy Billups came into the league, they said the same things about him as folks like you do about Bayless now. It took him almost 5 years to hit his stride. You are ready to give up on Bayless 4 months into the season, when it took Chauncy over 5 years to hit his stride? Maybe if Chauncy had not been traded so many times over the first 4 years of his career, and actually allowed to grow into his role, that wouldn't have taken so long.

Then I could go the to the other side of the coin. How about Steve Nash, one of the most pure assist guys out there, who can also score well. How many championships has he won? Zero.

Secondly-Brandon Roy has said he is not sure he could coexist with a Chris Paul, due to ball domination. Perhaps a guy playing off the ball who can shoot a bit, is the answer. That is a guy with some SG skills.

Lastly-I have no problems with Jerryds handle. He has a great dribble and the ability to move through traffic. The passing will come as he gets used to playing with folks. Right now he is just trying to do what he can do, play D, try not to fuck up, hustle, and bring intensity.
 
hasoos said:
Not at this point. But maybe later. See the thing I was looking at is you said "a position he'll clearly never master". To me, there are only a few guys in the league who have "mastered" the PG position. But many of them master it in their own way. Some are a little more score first.

Did Chauncy Billups win a championship? Yes he did. Was he a score first PG? Yes, he is. But he plays D and gets a few assist. Not a ton. But enough. How big is he? 6'3" tall. Amazing similarities aren't they?

When Chauncy Billups came into the league, they said the same things about him as folks like you do about Bayless now. It took him almost 5 years to hit his stride. You are ready to give up on Bayless 4 months into the season, when it took Chauncy over 5 years to hit his stride? Maybe if Chauncy had not been traded so many times over the first 4 years of his career, and actually allowed to grow into his role, that wouldn't have taken so long.

Then I could go the to the other side of the coin. How about Steve Nash, one of the most pure assist guys out there, who can also score well. How many championships has he won? Zero.

Secondly-Brandon Roy has said he is not sure he could coexist with a Chris Paul, due to ball domination. Perhaps a guy playing off the ball who can shoot a bit, is the answer. That is a guy with some SG skills.

Lastly-I have no problems with Jerryds handle. He has a great dribble and the ability to move through traffic. The passing will come as he gets used to playing with folks. Right now he is just trying to do what he can do, play D, try not to fuck up, hustle, and bring intensity.
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Yeah, Boston traded him for Kenny freaking Anderson. Billups bounced around the league until he finally found a home, and he didn't really show what he could do until he got to Denver and Minnesota.
 
To be honest the best player on this team for passing and getting the ball to the ones who need it may be RUDY! I see Pistol Pete on this kid. He's smart, can kill ya from outside, and sees the court better than anyone we have + he can finish. He'd also be much bigger than any other PG he'd see. The only problem I see with Bayless is his ego may explode out of the arena if he starts playing well and that means he may not distribute the ball well to ROY, LA and Oden. We shall see though!
 
Nikolokolus said:
Am I the only one seeing the irony of Mairis slagging on a rookie POINT GUARD, and especially harping on his shooting statistics when he's averaging about 7 minutes a game with 20 DNPs?

If I had the energy or wherewithal to search for it on BBF I could probably resurrect 20 threads started or commented on by Maris bemoaning Sergio's lack of PT as the primary cause of chacho's poor production.

What's so different here?
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One has obvious PG attributes and one does not.

One has stated he is and wants to be a PG and one has stated he can play PG if that is what the team needs.

One has shown the ability to run a professional team quite successfully and one has not.

One looks to make the team better and one looks to make himself look better.

I actually thought Bayless would make more of an effort at involving the team and I'm astounded at how bad his defense is for a quick guy.
 
MARIS61 said:
One has obvious PG attributes and one does not.

One has stated he is and wants to be a PG and one has stated he can play PG if that is what the team needs.

One has shown the ability to run a professional team quite successfully and one has not.

One looks to make the team better and one looks to make himself look better.

I actually thought Bayless would make more of an effort at involving the team and I'm astounded at how bad his defense is for a quick guy.
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How bad his defense is? Holy shit you are so completely full of crap. Bayless constantly fights through screens and many times, even beats the screener to the spot. Meanwhile, Sergio runs into the screen and looks like a VW bug being hit by a Freight Train doing 75 MPH when he gets taken out, or cheats under and gets burned, or the absolute worse, leaves one of our bigs on a switch with a small guy out on the perimeter, and then people wonder why our bigs are in fouls trouble all the time. Why the fuck do you think they are in foul trouble, they got switched onto a PG on the perimeter.
 
MARIS61 said:
Several posters have presented defense as a plus for their arguement.

From what I've seen, he is clueless on defense. Other than a couple of steals he seemingly can't even pester his opponent at all. He gets picked constantly, and faked out of his socks repeatedly.

Any examples where I'm wrong about that?
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More confirmation that you don't actually WATCH the games, you just look at stats after the game.

The Detroit game was a perfect example of the HUGE gap between the defense played by Bayless (good) and the defense played by Sergio (atrocious). Bayless was hounding Stucky and took him out of his game. Sergio didn't have a snowball's chance.


***The funny thing is, I know for a fact that Central Oregon wasn't getting most of the games on cable until recently. Unless you have some other means of watching, you weren't watching the games we are talking about.
 
MARIS61 said:
One has obvious PG attributes and one does not.

One has stated he is and wants to be a PG and one has stated he can play PG if that is what the team needs.

One has shown the ability to run a professional team quite successfully and one has not.

One looks to make the team better and one looks to make himself look better.

I actually thought Bayless would make more of an effort at involving the team and I'm astounded at how bad his defense is for a quick guy.
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One has obvious PG attributes and one does not. The only attribute you're talking about is passing.

One has stated he is and wants to be a PG and one has stated he can play PG if that is what the team needs. http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/2008/06/24/20080624bayless0625.html
"I'm a point guard," Bayless flatly says.
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One has shown the ability to run a professional team quite successfully and one has not. Sergio has had 2.5 years to show what he can do, which isn't much.... Bayless has had a couple games.

One looks to make the team better and one looks to make himself look better. This is just your own personal opinion. I've never seen anything from Bayless that would indicate this.
 
blazerboy30 said:
***The funny thing is, I know for a fact that Central Oregon wasn't getting most of the games on cable until recently. Unless you have some other means of watching, you weren't watching the games we are talking about.
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If he's a diehard Blazer fan...hooking the HDMI cable from laptop to widescreen is a bit less less quality than the comcast signal.
 
I'd like to see a tape measure on Bayless. He looks shorter than Sergio and Blake...a couple inches shorter.
 
roydezlaw said:
I'd like to see a tape measure on Bayless. He looks shorter than Sergio and Blake...a couple inches shorter.
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I don't have actual measurements on Sergio or Blake, but Bayless measured exactly 6' 3" in shoes at the pro-draft camp. He was 6' 1.75" without shoes.

Just for the sake of comparision, here's the measurements of some of the other lottery PG/combo guards from the 2008 draft class:
Code: 
DJ Augustin           5' 10"     5' 11.5"
Derrick Rose          6' 1.5"    6' 2.5" 
Jerryd Bayless        6' 1.75"   6' 3" 
Eric Gordon           6' 2"      6' 3.25" 
Russell Westbrook     6' 2.25"   6' 3.5"

BNM
 
given bayless' age and experience nodoby knows if he is capable of being a true PG, and it's likely nobody will for a couple years or more. billups didn't do much until age 25. nash was not known as a great passing PG his first 4-5 years in the league and didn't average 10 assists until age 27. jameer nelson is finally emerging as a decent PG at age 26. for all we know bayless could eventually be better than rose, given he already seems to be a better/smarter defender.
 
Sergio minutes played: 530.

Bayless minutes played: 144.

MARIS's "Evidence" is just stupid.
 
I can't take someone seriously when they belittle Jerryd's defense, and yet gives praise to Sergio like he is the 2nd coming of Jesus.

Bayless is a great defender, probably one of the best perimeter defenders we have on the team.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
I can't take someone seriously when they belittle Jerryd's defense, and yet gives praise to Sergio like he is the 2nd coming of Jesus.

Bayless is a great defender, probably one of the best perimeter defenders we have on the team.
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He's still bitter about the asterisk by 61.
 
MARIS61 said:
What specifically has he done to impress you as a PG? :dunno:
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You seem to think he's a SG. That's all the proof I need that he's a PG.:drumroll:
 
Ed O said:
I don't really see why it's Bayless OR Sergio.
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It's not, except in some Bayless fans' eyes. They play different roles, even if they both end up playing the PG spot. Sergio is often relegated to SG when Roy is in there as Roy will dominate the ball then give it to Sergio as the clock winds down. With 2 of our 5 guards able to play SF and Nate's love for smallball there are enough minutes to share if Nate is truly developing his players. There is no need to play Brandon or Steve 38 minutes a game.

Personally I liked what little I saw of them playing together, and would like to see that some more. By far the most exciting duo to watch is Sergio and Rudy. The duo that has Nate's confidence is clearly Roy and Blake.

Considering they are ALL quite young, and getting better, is pretty awesome for the Blazers.

Now, what about backup PF?
 
MARIS61 said:
It's not, except in some Bayless fans' eyes. They play different roles, even if they both end up playing the PG spot. Sergio is often relegated to SG when Roy is in there as Roy will dominate the ball then give it to Sergio as the clock winds down. With 2 of our 5 guards able to play SF and Nate's love for smallball there are enough minutes to share if Nate is truly developing his players. There is no need to play Brandon or Steve 38 minutes a game.

Personally I liked what little I saw of them playing together, and would like to see that some more. By far the most exciting duo to watch is Sergio and Rudy. The duo that has Nate's confidence is clearly Roy and Blake.

Considering they are ALL quite young, and getting better, is pretty awesome for the Blazers.

Now, what about backup PF?
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:smiley-eek2: I'm speechless
 
MARIS61 said:
It's not, except in some Bayless fans' eyes. They play different roles, even if they both end up playing the PG spot. Sergio is often relegated to SG when Roy is in there as Roy will dominate the ball then give it to Sergio as the clock winds down.
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That's a laugh. Sergio is the one who winds the clock down to 3.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Here's some evidence of how stupid using a small sample size is Maris.

We have a 38% winning percentage with Sergio playing point

http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR2.HTM#bypos

We have a 83% winning percentage with Jerryd at the point

http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR3.HTM#bypos

Checkmate.
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Hardly.

Garbage in = garbage out.

Sergio plays the point around 60% of the time, not 100% as your weaklink assumes.

Roy or Blake, and now Bayless, play the point much of the time he is out there.

Jerryd's best performances have all been when he's in SG mode.
 
MARIS61 said:
Hardly.

Garbage in = garbage out.

Sergio plays the point around 60% of the time, not 100% as your weaklink assumes.

Roy or Blake, and now Bayless, play the point much of the time he is out there.

Jerryd's best performances have all been when he's in SG mode.
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Wheres your link that proves Sergio plays point only 60% of the time? Isn't that what this is about? Give me a link, because I don't believe you and your opinion. I want hard facts. 82games.com is a legitimate site, as most people who know there stuff about basketball could agree.
 
blazerboy30 said:
More confirmation that you don't actually WATCH the games, you just look at stats after the game.

The Detroit game was a perfect example of the HUGE gap between the defense played by Bayless (good) and the defense played by Sergio (atrocious). Bayless was hounding Stucky and took him out of his game. Sergio didn't have a snowball's chance.


***The funny thing is, I know for a fact that Central Oregon wasn't getting most of the games on cable until recently. Unless you have some other means of watching, you weren't watching the games we are talking about.
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Not to make you appear slow-witted by pointing out the obvious but out here in Beautiful Central Oregon we have these magical things we refer to as "game :biglaugh:links". Haven't missed a game yet.

That TV of yours have a crank to start it?
 
Okay, clearly nobody has anything we can hang our hat yet on as far as evidence that Bayless can, or cannot, play PG well enough to be an asset to this team. So we'll wait and see, and re-visit the idea after we see more.

A couple of you provided some good insights and some recognize the Blazers are simply developing players (not positions) at this stage and will adjust line-ups as the players develop. Thanks for your input.

Many of you followed the predictable tack of stealing the thread and trying to frame it as having something to do with Sergio, which it does not, and attacking me and my views instead of putting forth any basis for your opinion. No surprises there. I'm done responding to them.

If one of our 5 guards goes away next year, or the year after, it figures to eventually be Steve due to age, or Bayless due to being our 3rd or 4th best SG, not our only pure PG. This was probably the worst team for Bayless to go to considering his competition here, so that makes him a likely trade component if we make a trade. I hope we don't.
 
MARIS61 said:
Okay, clearly nobody has anything we can hang our hat yet on as far as evidence that Bayless can, or cannot, play PG well enough to be an asset to this team. So we'll wait and see, and re-visit the idea after we see more.

A couple of you provided some good insights and some recognize the Blazers are simply developing players (not positions) at this stage and will adjust line-ups as the players develop. Thanks for your input.

Many of you followed the predictable tack of stealing the thread and trying to frame it as having something to do with Sergio, which it does not, and attacking me and my views instead of putting forth any basis for your opinion. No surprises there. I'm done responding to them.

If one of our 5 guards goes away next year, or the year after, it figures to eventually be Steve due to age, or Bayless due to being our 3rd or 4th best SG, not our only pure PG. This was probably the worst team for Bayless to go to considering his competition here, so that makes him a likely trade component if we make a trade. I hope we don't.
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I don't understand. What kind of empirical evidence are you looking for? Want me to go find a video of him hitting Aldridge for a dunk or something? I'm not sure what you want.
 
MARIS61 said:
This was probably the worst team for Bayless to go to considering his competition here, so that makes him a likely trade component if we make a trade. I hope we don't.
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it makes sergio a likely trade component because bayless is a better fit with roy.
 
MARIS61 said:
Not to make you appear slow-witted by pointing out the obvious but out here in Beautiful Central Oregon we have these magical things we refer to as "game :biglaugh:links". Haven't missed a game yet.

That TV of yours have a crank to start it?
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Perhaps you missed the first part of the post...

Strong evidence of Bayless playing VERY good defense at the point guard position:

You asked for hard evidence, I provided it.
Then you ignore it.

:crazy:
 
The NBA has evolved to a league that doesn't have pure positions anymore... its more about players. I don't think positions play their traditional roles anymore. Bayless and Roy/Rudy would work great in the future.

Maris61 said:
Sergio is often relegated to SG when Roy is in there as Roy will dominate the ball then give it to Sergio as the clock winds down.
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Woah! That is exactly what Sergio does, too!!! WOW!
 
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