Prepare to defend yourself, your family, your property, your food, your dog...

[Haakzilla]

...exit strategy seems the most logical for me. Canada might be the first step...then Iceland

 

[Denny Crane]

I ride my bike to work 2 miles in the early morning. There's almost no traffic on the roads. I literally see at least 50 homeless people sleeping in the doorways of vacant storefronts and in parking garages.

Compared to two years ago when I'd see maybe 2 or 3.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I ride my bike to work 2 miles in the early morning. There's almost no traffic on the roads. I literally see at least 50 homeless people sleeping in the doorways of vacant storefronts and in parking garages.

Compared to two years ago when I'd see maybe 2 or 3.

Sort of ironic that more than one of these homeless is in that position from buying too many houses during the real estate boom.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I ride my bike to work 2 miles in the early morning. There's almost no traffic on the roads. I literally see at least 50 homeless people sleeping in the doorways of vacant storefronts and in parking garages.

Compared to two years ago when I'd see maybe 2 or 3.

Beach community in Southern California = Microscosm for the USA?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

If by "many of them" you mean much less than 1% you're probably right.

To pretend that 95% of the population "got exactly what they deserved" while the uber-wealthy architects of the "recession" continue to profit from it is naive and insulting.

They did get what they deserved. They lived beyond their means and got fucked for it. Its really that cut and dry.

The American citizen nowadays is one who cannot think, is lazy and entitled. Has been for quite some time, its just time that it all caught up to them. They are corporate drones who buy corporate crap and shop at corporate stores and try to out do their neighbor. They spend their leisure time watching trash television and other people live life on TV instead of living it themselves. They have little shit kids running around whining all day and all night until they get what they want. America basically fell upon itself and its america's fault. Right down to the "average american".

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

They did get what they deserved. They lived beyond their means and got fucked for it. Its really that cut and dry.

The American citizen nowadays is one who cannot think, is lazy and entitled. Has been for quite some time, its just time that it all caught up to them. They are corporate drones who buy corporate crap and shop at corporate stores and try to out do their neighbor. They spend their leisure time watching trash television and other people live life on TV instead of living it themselves. They have little shit kids running around whining all day and all night until they get what they want. America basically fell upon itself and its america's fault. Right down to the "average american".

Repped.

MARIS61, is it also the 5% that made the majority of those 95% overweight?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I ride my bike to work 2 miles in the early morning. There's almost no traffic on the roads. I literally see at least 50 homeless people sleeping in the doorways of vacant storefronts and in parking garages.

Compared to two years ago when I'd see maybe 2 or 3.

And how many have attacked you and stole your bike?

Be prepared!

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I don't know if Americans deserve this, but there was a period of time that many were living well beyond their means. Somehow in this country, we went from a family where one person works and the family saves money for their children and their own retirement, to having a double income family with little time for children . . . while racking up debt!

Debt somehow became an accepted way of living in our society. There are many places you can point to to blame for this, but regardless, it is time for those who were living beyond thier means and racking up debt to live the old fashion way . . . earn it.

 

[Denny Crane]

Beach community in Southern California = Microscosm for the USA?

Nah, I expect it to be worse everywhere else. The closed stores are an indication that the tourism industry is sucking hard as well.

 

[44Thrilla]

Luckily I still have my Y2K shelter

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'm referring more to the former middle-class, who have never relied on entitlements to survive. They have become the new poor, and everything they worked hard to achieve is being stolen from them by the uber-wealthy. Many have never been faced with the threat of death by starvation or exposure to the elements and when all other options are gone "morality" is just a meaningless word.

When faced with survival, you do what you have to do. There is nobody in the world I would not sacrifice to save my family if needed.

If you're forbidden to grow food, or work for food, then you must take it anyway you can get it.

But I am more interested in who here is actually prepared for survival when/if their comfy system of government services turns against them. When their travel is restricted and monitored, when those who voice their concerns are interned without due process. When sniper-enforced curfews are enacted and soldiers come to strip your homes of weapons and wealth.

You mostly appear to be similar to the Jews of the 30's, gullible, meek, and subserviant. We all (should) know how that worked out for them.

The natural outcome of socialism.

 

[blazerboy30]

They did get what they deserved. They lived beyond their means and got fucked for it. Its really that cut and dry.

The American citizen nowadays is one who cannot think, is lazy and entitled. Has been for quite some time, its just time that it all caught up to them. They are corporate drones who buy corporate crap and shop at corporate stores and try to out do their neighbor. They spend their leisure time watching trash television and other people live life on TV instead of living it themselves. They have little shit kids running around whining all day and all night until they get what they want. America basically fell upon itself and its america's fault. Right down to the "average american".

Bingo!

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Luckily I still have my Y2K shelter

Was it your old nuclear bomb shelter before that or was it your old Mormon end of the world food storage shelter?

Isn't living in fear healthy?

 

[Denny Crane]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...52483381208608.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

Weak Jobs Data Dash Hopes of Accelerating Recovery

Nonfarm payrolls rose by 39,000 last month as private-sector employers added only 50,000 jobs, the Labor Department said Friday. The jobless rate, obtained from a separate household survey, unexpectedly rose to 9.8%, the highest level since April.

Economists surveyed by Dow Jones Newswires had forecast payrolls would rise by 144,000 and that the unemployment rate would remain unchanged at 9.6%.

 

[Haakzilla]

I don't know if Americans deserve this, but there was a period of time that many were living well beyond their means. Somehow in this country, we went from a family where one person works and the family saves money for their children and their own retirement, to having a double income family with little time for children . . . while racking up debt!

Debt somehow became an accepted way of living in our society. There are many places you can point to to blame for this, but regardless, it is time for those who were living beyond thier means and racking up debt to live the old fashion way . . . earn it.

...we have been creating money out of debt since the privately run bank, the Federal Reserve, that controls the Nation's money supply was enacted in 1913. Understanding our monetary system since then and how it can be easily manipulated to any outcome they desire is crucial in realizing the problem goes much deeper than "Americans living beyond their means".

Woodrow Wilson said, a few years after he realized his monumental mistake,

A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.

Being naive to monetary systems and how they operate is nothing new...

John Adams, one of our founding fathers once said,

All of the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from DOWNRIGHT IGNORANCE OF THE NATURE OR COIN, CREDIT, AND CIRCULATION.

 

[jlprk]

Judging from this thread, it appears that rich conservatives delude themselves that they earn their money, and poor people don't. They think that poor people depend upon rich people, instead of rich people depending upon poor people.

I got news for you. The poor can easily survive without the rich, not vice versa. The whole system is a mechanism for the rich to depend upon the impoverishment of others. We live in a welfare society for the rich.

The funniest part of this thread is when the rich claim that the poor live beyond their means, and can downsize their supposed spare resources. When the economy shrinks, you guys think it's the poor who will have to adjust. No, you'll be running scared financially in 10 years, while the poor won't have it very different from now.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Judging from this thread, it appears that rich conservatives delude themselves that they earn their money, and poor people don't. They think that poor people depend upon rich people, instead of rich people depending upon poor people.

I got news for you. The poor can easily survive without the rich, not vice versa. The whole system is a mechanism for the rich to depend upon the impoverishment of others. We live in a welfare society for the rich.

The funniest part of this thread is when the rich claim that the poor live beyond their means, and can downsize their supposed spare resources. When the economy shrinks, you guys think it's the poor who will have to adjust. No, you'll be running scared financially in 10 years, while the poor won't have it very different from now.

Boy do you love using labels.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Judging from this thread, it appears that rich conservatives delude themselves that they earn their money, and poor people don't. They think that poor people depend upon rich people, instead of rich people depending upon poor people.

I got news for you. The poor can easily survive without the rich, not vice versa. The whole system is a mechanism for the rich to depend upon the impoverishment of others. We live in a welfare society for the rich.

The funniest part of this thread is when the rich claim that the poor live beyond their means, and can downsize their supposed spare resources. When the economy shrinks, you guys think it's the poor who will have to adjust. No, you'll be running scared financially in 10 years, while the poor won't have it very different from now.

Wrong. The poor can barely feed themselves or provide themselves shelter or stay healthy without government handouts, which are a function of the disproportionate tax burden of the wealthy.

 

[jlprk]

Since you think of poor people as cockroaches, I assume you've heard that in the event of nuclear war (or even just a few more million years of evolution), the cockroaches will outlast the humans. They walked under dinosaurs and they'll be here under the next rulers.

When the economy goes down, the poor have no money to lose, but they have the survival skills for poverty. It's the upper middle class who will do all the adjusting. A decade from now, you'll find out who's tough and who's soft, who depends upon whom, and who has been skimming off of whom.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

When the economy goes down, basic goods and services will cost more. Your scenario assumes the status quo is maintained, when in will not be. I don't know where these "survival skills" will come from, when, as I stated earlier that the poor rely on welfare to survive and cannot survive on their own. Darwinism ensures the survival of the fittest and the problem with the poor is that they are not the fittest in the economy as they are not self-reliant. They will be the ones who will suffer the most from a harsh economic climate.

Maris61 is probably correct in that the poor will be the first to resort to property crimes and assault, since they lack the skill set to advance through traditional methods. They are not as educated as the general populace.

 

[Haakzilla]

...do you also agree with & support eugenics?!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

No. Why would I?

 

[jlprk]

When the economy goes down, basic goods and services will cost more. Your scenario assumes the status quo is maintained, when in will not be. I don't know where these "survival skills" will come from, when, as I stated earlier that the poor rely on welfare to survive and cannot survive on their own. Darwinism ensures the survival of the fittest and the problem with the poor is that they are not the fittest in the economy as they are not self-reliant. They will be the ones who will suffer the most from a harsh economic climate.

So when the economy sheds a trillion dollars in income (or whatever number), you think it will come mainly from the income of the poor, who are already close to zero. You think the economy's fat is in the lower class. You think the upper middle class will roll right along, despite few customers to provide profits. The majority poor will make the trillion less and the business owners profiting from the poor will still have the same sales and profits. The bureaucrats in big business and government will still be employed analyzing all the non-sales going on.

This is because the poor skim off of the economic labor of the rich, and the rich and upper middle class don't skim their profits from the economic labor of the poor.

Yeah right.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The poor are essentially replaceable in the workforce. There's a reason why its called low skilled labor. Robots or illegals can make them obsolete.

x

 

[Ed O]

I don't understand the premise of this thread.

The government has been protecting the middle class? And now there is no middle class? And when the government stops protecting us, then all bets are off?

It doesn't add up to me.

Ed O.

 

[MARIS61]

When the economy goes down, basic goods and services will cost more.

All the non-basic goods that wealthier people think are necessary will cost even more.

Here's a news flash for you. Poor people don't purchase goods. They have no money. They are already getting their food and clothing from dumpsters and soup kitchens and they improvise their shelter.

I don't know where these "survival skills" will come from, when, as I stated earlier that the poor rely on welfare to survive and cannot survive on their own. Darwinism ensures the survival of the fittest and the problem with the poor is that they are not the fittest in the economy as they are not self-reliant. They will be the ones who will suffer the most from a harsh economic climate.

You've obviously never actually met and become acquainted with an actual "poor person" in your life. Nor do you have any grasp of how miniscule a portion of poverty-level people are actually served by social services. Nor do you have any idea how many refuse to seek out or accept help of any kind. Most poor people have one trait that keeps them going, and that's pride.

As for survival skills, I'm guessing that you have none to speak of, because you've never needed any.

As for Darwinism, you've got it backwards. It is you who are not self-reliant. You depend solely on your employer(s) good will for everything you have. If you were to lose your job and be unable to get hired anywhere for a couple years it might be good for you. Since you obviously would refuse to accept unemployment insurance to survive, you might develop some survival skills of your own. And a more balanced view of how our capitalistic economy works, or doesn't.[/QUOTE]

Maris61 is probably correct in that the poor will be the first to resort to property crimes and assault, since they lack the skill set to advance through traditional methods. They are not as educated as the general populace.

Why would rich people resort to property crimes and assault? They're rich!

But when they're no longer rich they will be the first and foremost to commit crimes against their countymen, because they have been grown to think they are better than others and therefore more deserving. They have less moral fiber than someone who has had to struggle to survive.

52% of Americans have some college education, and 27% have a degree. Most of what they paid to learn there will be useless trivia when the only jobs are growing food, producing clothes, moving basic goods, and building shelter. We're not talking union wages either. In a depression, which is what is being intentionally orchestrated right now, "college-educated" indicates to most employers that the applicant is likely too soft, too slow, and probably very weak at trouble-shooting. In other words, unemployable. The poor and the illegal immigrants will be the work force. Most jobs that require a degree will simply not be needed. Who needs a doctor to be on hand if nobody has the money to pay him? The truth is without Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs paying for healthcare services, we'd have to lay off about 1/3 of the healthcare professionals nationwide right now. As more and more people lose their insurance less doctors will be needed. Lawyers? Only government employed (DA's and public defenders) will be needed. Financial Investment counselors? For whom?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

All the non-basic goods that wealthier people think are necessary will cost even more.

Here's a news flash for you. Poor people don't purchase goods. They have no money. They are already getting their food and clothing from dumpsters and soup kitchens and they improvise their shelter.

Poor people don't purchase consumer goods? Surely you jest. They are probably one of the higher volume consumers out there, which is why they remain poor and in debt. They buy material items instead of saving/investing. That's a gross generalization but its pretty well known that the poor often try to appear as they are not poor buy buying brand-name clothing, video games, spinning wheels and do 5 year financing on their automobile leases.

 

[Rodolfo]

Don't underestimate the power of HUMAN INGENUITY

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

You've obviously never actually met and become acquainted with an actual "poor person" in your life. Nor do you have any grasp of how miniscule a portion of poverty-level people are actually served by social services. Nor do you have any idea how many refuse to seek out or accept help of any kind. Most poor people have one trait that keeps them going, and that's pride.

As for survival skills, I'm guessing that you have none to speak of, because you've never needed any.

As for Darwinism, you've got it backwards. It is you who are not self-reliant. You depend solely on your employer(s) good will for everything you have. If you were to lose your job and be unable to get hired anywhere for a couple years it might be good for you. Since you obviously would refuse to accept unemployment insurance to survive, you might develop some survival skills of your own. And a more balanced view of how our capitalistic economy works, or doesn't.

I don't doubt some poor people have a sense of pride. I never said that they didn't. However, they are still dependent on the government assistance programs which are funded by the taxes of the wealthy. It may not be fair, but its reality. The poor do not have the resources and/or skill to provide for themselves.

I was unemployed for quite some time shortly after college without unemployment. It was a struggle but I eventually picked up odd jobs to get by until I did find meaningful work. I now have a side business where I don't need to depend on the graces of my employer if it went to that. I have a strong network where I can find work if I were to lose my job, either permanent or consulting. I keep my expenses low. Car is paid off and I live in rent-controlled housing in LA. My apartment is less than 500 square ft. I think I'll manage. And if I do become poor, big deal. I can cut down my expenses to nothing and it really won't be that hard as a single male. I have no kids or a family to provide for. Huge advantage financially.

A miniscule number of people are helped by social services? You're joking right? 1 in 8 americans get food stamps. 40 million people.

 

[jlprk]

I don't understand the premise of this thread.

The government has been protecting the middle class? And now there is no middle class? And when the government stops protecting us, then all bets are off?

Premise? <goes back and reads Post #1>

Oh yeah, I forgot all that...well, do it my way...Just wander where you want to...

I'm arguing with El on who the coming Depression will hurt. He says only the poor. I say they'll survive because they're used to surviving on close to nothing, and that it's people with money who will notice a big difference.

Which is related, but not the exact premise of the thread...