Presidential Legitimacy: Birthers - Karma is a Bitch

[riverman]

They

wh0?

 

[Denny Crane]

The anti Trump messaging from our "objective media" made anything the Russians may (or may not) have done pale in comparison. With all that going against him, Trump still won.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think we all understand that....doesn't mean we have to agree with it or think it should remain the way we do things...I'm not really against it but support the right to be against it.

OK--but it answers your question of "why do we have it?" You claimed that we can't answer that question, but I did, quite directly. Apparently, that's the difference between you and me.

 

[Denny Crane]

wh0?

Where were you?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/14/frum.bush.war.crimes/

Some Bush critics have for years demanded a prosecution of the former president. They had hoped that the incoming Obama administration would put Bush on trial. No luck.

Now they have changed their focus, filing actions in foreign courts. Last week, these Bush opponents filed an action in Switzerland in advance of a Bush appearance at a charity fundraiser in Geneva.

 

[riverman]

Great. So for the third time, I ask how do help from Russians, and the FBI, and losing the popular vote by more than 3 million votes (as listed in the OP) relate to whether or not Trump has the right to take office?

It might not but what's c'mon....there are flags that for some reason all came to light at the end of the 4th qtr here.....I think it's a good time to look at the instant replay and see if it is a flagrant foul somewhere ....innocent people don't hide things.....like tax returns or good old back room politics

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It might not but what's c'mon....there are flags that for some reason all came to light at the end of the 4th qtr here.....I think it's a good time to look at the instant replay and see if it is a flagrant foul somewhere ....innocent people don't hide things.....like tax returns or good old back room politics

So you're taking the tack of, "There's no evidence that he might be ineligible for the office, but there are things about him we don't like, so we should search for something, anything, that might theoretically disqualify him"?

Weak.

 

[riverman]

Great. So for the third time, I ask how do help from Russians, and the FBI, and losing the popular vote by more than 3 million votes (as listed in the OP) relate to whether or not Trump has the right to take office?

I've mentioned many times about this subject that the public will not have the information to know any of this until it's declassified and proven....right now our national security teams don't really seem to trust each other.....I have probably 20 more doubts about Trump but those are MY doubts....I see people arguing about the election, how it was won, lack of trust in the transition team and outgoing staff.......I've never seen an uglier election than this one....I believe Trump has the right to take office but don't understand why anyone would object to any national security flags that arise in process.....those flags have risen.

 

[riverman]

so we should search

I did not say that.....but it's occurred already whether I want it or not...I'm in the audience...if John Lewis has concerns.......I listen...I have enormous respect for him. Was shocked actually to see that around 20 senators are not attending in protest....I do believe in the right to search for truth in govt..I haven't filed any petitions personally

 

[Denny Crane]

Where were your national security concerns when Trump's opponent put top secret documents on an unsecured, unauthorized, and illegal server?

If those things are to be found by our rivals via hacking, at least it should be our actual security apparatus in charge of trying to keep them out.

 

[riverman]

Where were your national security concerns when Trump's opponent put top secret documents on an unsecured, unauthorized, and illegal server?

My concerns are like everyone's.......I just know a little more than some about how classified things get buried in the chain of command.....never said it didn't concern me Denny....what I did say was it didn't surprise me....remember? Where were your concerns when Herbert Hoover was witch hunting and making up fake stories about solving crimes? At the movies? Me too.....I never trusted the media....ever...or govt for the most part....I do like to pay attention though...as an American...not a partisan cheerleader......

 

[riverman]

it should be our actual security apparatus in charge of trying to keep them out

I agree

 

[Stevenson]

Go back and read the original post (I'll re-quote it here):

• So I see that none other than representative John Lewis is saying that Trump is not a legitimate president.
• Between help from Russians, and the FBI, and losing the popular vote by more than 3 million votes, it is a valid argument.
• Certainly 100% more valid than the never-real Birther BS.

The OP was saying that there's a valid argument that Trump's presidency is not legitimate. Again, the question is, how do the italicized items in blue support the bolded claims in red?

Our elections are supposed to be free and fair - both sides having an equal shot to win. But hacking by the Russians in favor of Trump (per ALL of our Intelligence Agencies) and Comey's highly unusual announcement (now under investigation by his own FBI), put a thumb on the scales in Trump's favor.

And that equals questionable legitimacy.

P.S. That a fluke in electoral system allowed him to win to win only reinforces this; the electoral college was never designed/intended to let someone with fewer votes win - Jefferson would roll over in his grave.

 

[blue32]

P.S. That a fluke in electoral system allowed him to win to win only reinforces this; the electoral college was never designed to let someone with fewer votes win - Jefferson would roll over in his grave.

Sorry, but this this is wrong. A main point of the EC was so that a mass of people with the same ideals couldn't vote for everyone in the country by using supreme numbers. So to speak -- Paraphrasing there.

 

[Denny Crane]

The" objective" media with journalistic ethics and integrity put their entire weight on the scale in favor of the loser. Lies, half truths, and deciding what's (fake!) news on the voter's behalf.

The truth exposed by WikiLeaks emails is how the Russians supposedly put a thumb on the scale in favor of Trump? Laughable. The Truth did her in, if the emails had any effect at all on the election.

Her choices of where to spend her nearly infinite resources did her in.

Her awful personality and track record (which she couldn't run on) and lack of value proposition did her in.

Comey was Clinton's hero when he announced she wasn't going to press charges after a 15 minute indictment style statement.

What should be of more concern is how WaPost found out there'd be no charges before Comey's announcement. Someone on the loser's side within the government was putting a thumb on the scale in favor of the loser.

In fact, a number of leaks should be of concern. Unlike the alleged Russian hacks, these leaks are a threat to national security and outright treason.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/clapper-trump-233517

Spy chief trashes leaks, assures Trump of loyalty

The outgoing U.S. director of national intelligence has extended an olive branch of sorts to Donald Trump — denouncing media leaks, casting skepticism on a report that Russia has damaging material on the pr

...

"I expressed my profound dismay at the leaks that have been appearing in the press, and we both agreed that they are extremely corrosive and damaging to our national security," Clapper said of the information that has come out since last week's intelligence briefing.

 

[Sinobas]

It seems that people on the left are trying hard to one-up each other on saying provocative things against Trump. But of course, saying he's not legit is ridiculous. He won the election.

Maybe Russia had a hand in releasing Hillary's emails. Ok....if that makes an election illegit, you'd have to say Hillary is not a legit president if she had won, because someone released Trump's "grab 'em by the pussy" video. It just flat out makes no sense.

It's a really unintelligent thing for an elected official to say. Stick with the facts.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Our elections are supposed to be free and fair - both sides having an equal shot to win. But hacking by the Russians in favor of Trump (per ALL of our Intelligence Agencies) and Comey's highly unusual announcement (now under investigation by his own FBI), put a thumb on the scales in Trump's favor.

And that equals questionable legitimacy.

I guess you and I have different ideas about what constitutes a free and fair election. In my mind, "free" means that anyone eligible has the opportunity to run, and "fair" means that anyone eligible has the opportunity to vote, and all votes are counted equally. So unless the Russian hacking actually impacted one of those things, I don't see how it raises any question of legitimacy.

I have yet to see any indication from any of the intelligence community that any of the hacking actually affected vote totals. If there has been, could you kindly point me toward it so I can further educate myself on the topic?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[riverman]

that tweet creeps me out....it's like saying someone will film an assassination...

 

[Aly]

Trump is a better President today than Barrack has been in 8 yrs, remember Barrack saying GOP could get at the back of the line. Remember health care no GOP votes,
Barrack was and is a lousy POTUS that had a chance to improve this country and wasted it, we are actually worse off.
So many of the things he has done in the last month are to throw roadblocks up for Trump. If he was for this country he would not be trying to muddy the waters so much.
The left is so angry over poor Hillary losing, I believe it is a real possibility this country comes down to another civil war soon. Left is causing all the violence, I do hope Trump changes our police system and we start obeying the laws of this country.
I do wish there was a easier way to put a law up for a vote in this country, something like you do for a state law.
I spent the last 8 years wondering how we voted in Barrack, I will join many in getting him out the door.

Build the wall
Lower Taxes and get this country moving again,
I spent the last 20 yrs working but felt like most were going backwards over that time.
Over haul our intelligence network. To many lies

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Trump is a better President today than Barrack has been in 8 yrs, remember Barrack saying GOP could get at the back of the line. Remember health care no GOP votes,
Barrack was and is a lousy POTUS that had a chance to improve this country and wasted it, we are actually worse off.
So many of the things he has done in the last month are to throw roadblocks up for Trump. If he was for this country he would not be trying to muddy the waters so much.
The left is so angry over poor Hillary losing, I believe it is a real possibility this country comes down to another civil war soon. Left is causing all the violence, I do hope Trump changes our police system and we start obeying the laws of this country.
I do wish there was a easier way to put a law up for a vote in this country, something like you do for a state law.
I spent the last 8 years wondering how we voted in Barrack, I will join many in getting him out the door.

Build the wall
Lower Taxes and get this country moving again,
I spent the last 20 yrs working but felt like most were going backwards over that time.
Over haul our intelligence network. To many lies

Don't take this the wrong way, but what language is your mother tongue?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

that tweet creeps me out....it's like saying someone will film an assassination...

Chill out dude. It's just making a joke because every dashcam video on YouTube is from Russia because there are so many scam artists there doing things like jumping out in front of you then suing you that everyone has a dashcam.

But if there WERE an assassination attempt, I think I know how it would play out: