Pressure or Motivation?

[Fez Hammersticks]

Not to beat a dead horse but the two players selected directly after Greg Oden are now All-Stars.

Could there be too much pressure for Greg to live up to his selection?

He has to prove he can stay healthy for an entire season.

He has to live in the massive shadow of Durant until he can prove he can even be mentioned in the same breath as KD.

He did have a +23 PER (with a defensive rating of 100) but was still very raw on the offensive end.

Durant has a +25 PER with a defensive rating of 102. His offensive game is insane with a scoring average of 29.6

It's to the point where how can you even defend this pick? injuries aside, KD is clearly the better talent.

 

[Buzz Killington]

who cares. Greg just needs to focus on Greg and the Blazers. No pressure. It shouldn't motivate him either. The only thing holding him back is his health. The rest will come. He does not lack skill.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I completely disagree, I wouldn't think twice if I knew both were going to stay healthy, Oden is a better talent at a position far harder to find than Durant. Greg was starting to do a lot of nice things on the offensive end. I like the future of the small foward position in the hands of Nicholas Batum. The argument is perfectly legitimate now that Oden has had such injury issues, but if both were healthy I don't think twice about taking Oden.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Back when the 2 where in college, the arguments in favor of Durant always came back to one point: KD is one of those people who lives/eats/sleeps basketball. If KD was a foot shorter, he would be Spud Webb. He would somehow find a way to still be a basketball player. If Oden was a foot shorter, he would be in dental school.

I'm sure Oden feels pressure from the situation. Whether it motivates him, I am not so sure. He strikes me as the type of player who just doesn't get fired up about much of anything.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

 

[Minstrel]

Oden's been excellent when healthy. Are you saying he's been injured due to feeling too much pressure?

 

[THE HCP]

Who is the 2nd all-star?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Who is the 2nd all-star?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I completely disagree, I wouldn't think twice if I knew both were going to stay healthy, Oden is a better talent at a position far harder to find than Durant. Greg was starting to do a lot of nice things on the offensive end. I like the future of the small foward position in the hands of Nicholas Batum. The argument is perfectly legitimate now that Oden has had such injury issues, but if both were healthy I don't think twice about taking Oden.

I keep hearing this, how is Oden a better talent? Because he's bigger?

Kevin Durant is almost a year younger and has has drastically improved his defense since coming into the League. He went from a defensive rating of 110 to 102 in two years.

Greg was becoming a threat from the block but Durant is a threat from mid-range, three point-range, slashing, and even from the block. You can't compare the two here, if ever.

Oden does have a significant advantage as a rebounder, though. But his 'potential,' even healthy, doesn't come close to what Kevin Durant is already doing.

 

[Buzz Killington]

Durant is a scorer and offensive player. He's the centerpiece on a team, not a complimentary player.

Oden is the center on a team (not position wise). He took his team to the national championship game. He gets double teams when he gets the ball in the post, making the game easier for others.

Everyone knew that Durant will win scoring titles, while Oden will win rings. It was said by KP on draft day and I agree with him. This is how its always been.

Who cares if Durant plays better defense? there's a lack of good, big defensive centers who can still draw a double team when they get the ball.

 

[THE HCP]

C'Mon, Al Horford is an all-star for the same reason Jamal McGloire was. They NEEDED a 2nd center in the east.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

If that were true Joakim Noah would have a HUGE advantage here. He really should have been an All-Star this year.

Same with Brook Lopez, if they were just looking for a second center.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I keep hearing this, how is Oden a better talent? Because he's bigger?

We've heard that Durant is the better talent for sometime, but that just seems to be the thing to say when comparing smaller players to bigger players. Is Brandon Roy more talented than Shaquille O'neal? Maybe, he can do more things. It all depends on your definition of "talent." There aren't many 7 footers with Greg Oden's athleticism, defensive timing, and presence around the paint area.

Kevin Durant is almost a year younger and has has drastically improved his defense since coming into the League. He went from a defensive rating of 110 to 102 in two years.

Kevin Durant is no defensive stopper, give me Nicholas Batum on the defensive end all day.

Greg was becoming a threat from the block but Durant is a threat from mid-range, three point-range, slashing, and even from the block. You can't compare the two here, if ever.

Good luck at trying to win a championship with a bunch of perimeter players, even with a offensive superstar like Roy and Durant together. Jordan was the only one without a legitimate inside threat. Greg Oden will be an offensive threat if he wasn't already, don't fault him for the coach's mistake.

Oden does have a significant advantage as a rebounder, though. But his 'potential,' even healthy, doesn't come close to what Kevin Durant is already doing.

Oden's impact on both ends of the floor far outdoes Durant's IMO.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

If that were true Joakim Noah would have a HUGE advantage here. He really should have been an All-Star this year.

Same with Brook Lopez, if they were just looking for a second center.

Lopez is clearly better, Noah is comparable. The only reason why Horford went is because his team wins more.

 

[KingSpeed]

Oden's been excellent when healthy. Are you saying he's been injured due to feeling too much pressure?

I wouldn't say "excellent." There is much much much room for improvement.

 

[KingSpeed]

I keep hearing this, how is Oden a better talent? Because he's bigger?

Kevin Durant is almost a year younger and has has drastically improved his defense since coming into the League. He went from a defensive rating of 110 to 102 in two years.

Greg was becoming a threat from the block but Durant is a threat from mid-range, three point-range, slashing, and even from the block. You can't compare the two here, if ever.

Oden does have a significant advantage as a rebounder, though. But his 'potential,' even healthy, doesn't come close to what Kevin Durant is already doing.

And don't completely shortchange Durant's rebounding ability. He often gets double doubles and averages over 7 rebounds per game.

 

[KingSpeed]

Durant is a scorer and offensive player. He's the centerpiece on a team, not a complimentary player.

Oden is the center on a team (not position wise). He took his team to the national championship game. He gets double teams when he gets the ball in the post, making the game easier for others.

Everyone knew that Durant will win scoring titles, while Oden will win rings. It was said by KP on draft day and I agree with him. This is how its always been.

Who cares if Durant plays better defense? there's a lack of good, big defensive centers who can still draw a double team when they get the ball.

1) Durant can draw double teams and make the game easier for others.

2) Why can't one win scoring titles AND rings if surrounded with the right supporting cast? Jordan did it.

 

[KingSpeed]

If that were true Joakim Noah would have a HUGE advantage here. He really should have been an All-Star this year.

Same with Brook Lopez, if they were just looking for a second center.

Bingo. Brook Lopez puts up 19/9/2.

 

[KingSpeed]

We've heard that Durant is the better talent for sometime, but that just seems to be the thing to say when comparing smaller players to bigger players. Is Brandon Roy more talented than Shaquille O'neal? Maybe, he can do more things. It all depends on your definition of "talent." There aren't many 7 footers with Greg Oden's athleticism, defensive timing, and presence around the paint area.



Kevin Durant is no defensive stopper, give me Nicholas Batum on the defensive end all day.



Good luck at trying to win a championship with a bunch of perimeter players, even with a offensive superstar like Roy and Durant together. Jordan was the only one without a legitimate inside threat. Greg Oden will be an offensive threat if he wasn't already, don't fault him for the coach's mistake.



Oden's impact on both ends of the floor far outdoes Durant's IMO.

That's silly. That's like saying Oden's impact on both ends of the floor far outdoes Kobe's. Yes, Kobe. That's the level that Durant is achieving. Put a Pau Gasol on OKC and Durant would win rings before you knew it.

 

[maxiep]

I keep hearing the Jordan comparison, and I just roll my eyes. Durant is more Dominique Wilkins/Clyde Drexler than Jordan. People forget Jordan just wasn't a good defender, he was the best wing defender in the league. As for the help Jordan had, Pippen was a unique talent. He could just fill the stat box as a sidekick or be an MVP candidate when leading a team--it's a rare commodity to have a superstar willing to sublimate their game that way. I'm not sure there's a Pippen in the entire league, much less on the Thunder.

Like I've said before, if you want to win your fantasy league, take Durant. If you want to win an NBA Championship, take Oden. The only thing that's making us regret the choice is the injury situation. If both had been playing, both teams would be happy with their selections. Hell, GO's been so banged up he hasn't even found his role on this team. I'll be interested to see how GO is doing once he's played 200+ games in this league (insert asinine joke how that game will be played when he's 31).

The bottom line is that while we haven't seen Durant's best, we haven't even gotten a real chance to see even a fraction of what GO can do. Once he's conditioned, once he's comfortable in our system and our players are comfortable with him, once the officials have figured out how to ref him and once he's figured them out and once he can get into a freaking flow for more than 20 games, then let's judge him.

 

[Nikolokolus]

C'mon people. It's OK to admit that Durant was the better talent and that KP missed on him. This isn't to say that Greg won't one day be a good/great center ... if he can stay healthy, but KD is well on his way to not only securing scoring titles, but MVPs as well. He plays defense, he rebounds well, he's a walking mismatch and he's as young as Nic Batum -- there's a lot of room left for improvement.

Now does this mean I'm upset that we have Greg? Not at all, I still think there's a chance he can put it all together and possibly stay healthy enough to help lead this team where it wants to go, but right now if you say Greg is the better talent than Durant, you're being disingenuous; you can only judge these guys on what they've done and right now Durant (and Horford for that matter) are a lot less potential and a lot more production.

FWIW, though I still don't think the Thunder are going anywhere (as in all the way) until they can find a legitimate 7 footer to plug in to the gaping hole they have at the 5 spot ... and I'm not even sure they have enough at the 4 spot with Jeff Green and Serge Ibaka.

 

[oldmangrouch]

The bottom line is that while we haven't seen Durant's best, we haven't even gotten a real chance to see even a fraction of what GO can do. Once he's conditioned, once he's comfortable in our system and our players are comfortable with him, once the officials have figured out how to ref him and once he's figured them out and once he can get into a freaking flow for more than 20 games, then let's judge him.

All true....but there are an awful lot of "ifs" involved in that. Seems like Oden's career has already hit the point where absolutely everything has to break just right for him to have a chance. Sorry, but I don't like the odds.

I will also agree that Durant is More "Drexler" than "Jordan". Then again - having another Clyde wouldn't exactly break my heart!

 

[Minstrel]

I wouldn't say "excellent." There is much much much room for improvement.

I would say excellent, relative to his age and NBA experience. To remain excellent relative to age, he'd need to keep improving. What is "excellent" at 22 is not necessarily so at 27.

Of course, his PER is over 20, with strong defense. So even if he didn't improve his game at all, and he just stayed healthy and upped his minutes...he'd still be a tremendously valuable center.

 

[Buzz Killington]

1) Durant can draw double teams and make the game easier for others.

2) Why can't one win scoring titles AND rings if surrounded with the right supporting cast? Jordan did it.

Yeah, but he's just more likely to take shot after shot. He is the focus on the offense, a black hole. Oden helps in other ways. In college, Durant didn't do shit except lead the nation in scoring...Oden took his team to the championship. I think this will hold true in the NBA when Oden gets better.

 

[Nikolokolus]

1) Durant can draw double teams and make the game easier for others.

2) Why can't one win scoring titles AND rings if surrounded with the right supporting cast? Jordan did it.

Dude. Oden draws double teams and he ACTUALLY PASSES!! I love Durant and I think he's a helluva talent and phenomenal scorer, but his solution to the double team is to shoot over the top of it. That does nothing to make his teammates better.

As for whether or not he'll win rings, I think he's going to have to learn to pass before that will happen and he's going to need a legit post player to make that team a title contender.

 

[MARIS61]

No issue here, other than bad luck injury-wise.

Had he remained healthy, Greg would by now already be the 2nd best player in the league, behind only LeBarn.

 

[blazerboy30]

C'mon people. It's OK to admit that Durant was the better talent

Please define, before continuing to make a long post defending this stance.

 

[BlazerBeav]

Simply put - you add Kevin Durant to this team, and you still have a gaping hole in the middle, while taking away a starting role for Nicolas (who looks more impressive everyday). You add Greg Oden to this team, and you not only solve what is currently terrible interior defense (simply due to lack of a center) but you also add rebounding and points in the paint (another glaring deficiency, the Dallas game aside). Greg Oden is a better fit for this team as constructed.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Please define, before continuing to make a long post defending this stance.

Define better talent? As in better at the game of basketball -- the sum of his positive contributions minus his negatives is greater than the sum of Greg Oden's positives minus his negatives. Last year and in Durant's rookie season you could have made an argument that he was a no defense chucker that made his team worse, but that is no longer the case.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Simply put - you add Kevin Durant to this team, and you still have a gaping hole in the middle, while taking away a starting role for Nicolas (who looks more impressive everyday). You add Greg Oden to this team, and you not only solve what is currently terrible interior defense (simply due to lack of a center) but you also add rebounding and points in the paint (another glaring deficiency, the Dallas game aside). Greg Oden is a better fit for this team as constructed.

Gaping hole in the middle? You mean if we draft Durant we are left with Przy, LMA and Z-bo to man the middle and that is worse than what we have now how exactly? Injuries to Oden and Pryzbilla aside, this argument just doesn't hold water.

I should clarify. This isn't to say that the theoretical lineup of Greg, Przy and LMA isn't really good, and the emergence of Batum gives me a lot of hope, but all of this still hinges on a guy who has missed 2/3rds of his first 3 seasons. I just don't see that as a good long term bet.