Presti interviewed?

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The Blazers are just a slimeball organization.

Larry Miller firing off a letter to GMs threatening them to not sign Miles

Lying about conducting a GM search while KP is still in position

Shady people.
 
I would submit that, in my view only, part of my "picking apart kp's every move" comes from the fact that I see Presti, Ferry, Wark, Walsh, Cuban, etc. doing many of the things outlined above...and wonder why we've made one (Great!) midseason trade and generally let value leave for nothing.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I'll give you the point that KP>SP in drafting, it seems, though Harden's not a bust by any stretch and taking Westbrook over Bayless looks like a genius move right now, when it was panned at the time.
Are you deliberately not mentioning, or did you forget, the following?
Instead of just letting Lewis walk, he got a 8M trade exception for a 2nd round pick.
He used that exception to get Kurt Thomas and two 1st round picks (Suns 2008 1st and 2010 1st)
Then traded Thomas to the Spurs for Spurs' 2009 1st, Elson and Brent Barry. He then waived Barry. :(
Jumped into two major 3-team trades, lowering team salary with each.
Traded Chris Wilcox for Malik Rose and cash.
Traded Chucky Atkins and Damien Wilkins for Etan Thomas and 2 of MIN's 2nds.
Signed Krstic
Hired the Coach of the Year
Traded a 2002 2nd-round Euro for Eric Maynor.
So he's traded scrubs to save money and traded scrubs to get cash back...he's traded a 2nd-round pick to get 3 1sts...he's gotten under the cap while fielding a pretty decent team...he's found quality free agents at low prices...he's hired the Coach of the Year...he's drafted decently...and you're saying that it's b/c of lottery luck that he's not out of the league? Really?

EDIT: And he got value from Ray Allen, even if it was "just" Jeff Green.
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Now that we've heard from the Presti Fan Club, can we get back to being objective? Lots of small moves you posted. None mean shit without Durant on the roster. Pritchard has a better team than Presti without his lucky lotto pick being an MVP candidate.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I would submit that, in my view only, part of my "picking apart kp's every move" comes from the fact that I see Presti, Ferry, Wark, Walsh, Cuban, etc. doing many of the things outlined above...and wonder why we've made one (Great!) midseason trade and generally let value leave for nothing.
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I know you can't stand Pritchard. I don't have a problem with that at all. I just don't see what Presti has done that makes him such an upgrade. What happens when all of his youngsters are up for contract extensions? It's easy to say he's under the cap with such a young team, and without a Nash and Patterson handcuffing him coming into the Seattle job. They were shitty. They got Kevin Durant, Now, they're not shitty. Big deal.
 
BrianFromWA said:
EDIT: And he got value from Ray Allen, even if it was "just" Jeff Green.
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Which could have been Joakim Noah. Green and his sub-14 PER make him a below average PF. A bad pick at #5, and they'll have to overpay to keep him because someone will want him.
 
I by no means think Presti is an upgrade over Pritchard, but that doesn't mean Presti is awful.
 
Oh, you can try, but this one's going to hurt ya'.

Pritchard took over in spring 2007 with the following: Blake, Jack, Roy, Webster, Zach, LMA, Przy, Outlaw...among others. For those counting at home that's 4/5 of our Opening Night 2010 lineup (the #1 pick instead of Przy, which even the coach didn't want to do at first) PLUS a 2010 All-Star. That's the entire 2008-09 and 4/5 of the 2009-10 Opening Night Starting Lineups.
Presti took over in spring 2007 with the following. Rashard Lewis UFA--not coming back to Seattle. Ray Allen unhappy. Nick Collison. Ridnour. Petro. Sene. Wilcox and Wilkins. A bunch of guys you don't remember. One starter on the 2008 team, None of the 2009 team.
Personally, I think that turnaround (forget anything else I write below)means quite a lot if you're being "objective" and not part of the "Sam Presti Devil's Advocate" club.
So let's take Oden and Durant out of the equation.
Pritchard traded his 20/10 PF, future all-star for Rudy and Channing Frye. Oh yeah, and cap space.
Presti traded his All-star, unhappy shooting guard for his starting PF for the next 3 years. Green's not great by any stretch, but he's the starting PF on a 50-win club.
Presti traded a 2nd rounder for 3 1sts and some scrubs.
He traded those scrubs for reduced payroll, cap space and 2nd-round picks.
He signed his starting C (Krstic) for below-market prices
KP went hard after (overpaying) Hedo, Millsap (good) and Miller (what's your take on that one?)
Presti hired the Coach of the Year.
Presti turns expiring contracts into cash in pocket and lower salaries and draft picks.
Pritchard got outfoxed in the Miles fiasco. He's made one trade that you could argue was to our benefit (the Camby one). He's drafted one contributor (Batum) in 3 years.
Presti's spun gold from "small moves" to get to a point where he has a 50-win club with the "youngest team in the league". Except that he built it...he didn't inherit it and "let it bake".

I don't think Pritchard sucks. If he stays I'm ok with that. You're completely, 100%, off-the-reservation wrong about Presti, though.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I would submit that, in my view only, part of my "picking apart kp's every move" comes from the fact that I see Presti, Ferry, Wark, Walsh, Cuban, etc. doing many of the things outlined above...and wonder why we've made one (Great!) midseason trade and generally let value leave for nothing.
Click to expand...

All those guys making all these moves sure put their teams in a better spot, didn't they. Most of those guys you listed fall into the knee jerk, make a move to make a move type guys. Except for Presti, IMO, he falls into the mold of KP.

This is a relevant quote,
"Never mistake activity for achievement. "
John Wooden
 
Ferry getting two all-stars in Jamison and Mo Williams for scrubs didn't improve the team?
Walsh getting out from under Isiah Thomas's cap hell in 2 years?
Cuban getting Caron Butler for Josh Howard didn't make them better? Trading for Jason Kidd didn't make them better?
Pray tell me what Kevin's achieved with his activity. I'll give you Camby for Outlaw and Blake. SEriously good move. Your turn.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Ferry getting two all-stars in Jamison and Mo Williams for scrubs didn't improve the team?
Walsh getting out from under Isiah Thomas's cap hell in 2 years?
Cuban getting Caron Butler for Josh Howard didn't make them better? Trading for Jason Kidd didn't make them better?
Pray tell me what Kevin's achieved with his activity. I'll give you Camby for Outlaw and Blake. SEriously good move. Your turn.
Click to expand...

You name three guy simproved their situations, but then ask what KP did with his moves? Uhm, ALSO improved the team. Walsh sat around and did nothing, letting contracts expire. That's not difficult. It's slightly difficult to be patient, but he didn't pull off anything huge to be admired. He better have inside info on someone coming to his team, bcause he drastically overpaid to move Jeffries' contract off of his team.
As for Butler, it appears to me that situation improved their team as much as Camby did ours. They won 2 games in the first round. Of course, they were the favorite in their series, and we weren't. Not sure why that one should be praised. Cleveland was in the Finals three years ago. With Mo Williams, Shaq and Jamison, they were out in the second round. That's not moving forward.
 
so to get this straight, your contention is that getting two all-stars for basically nothing did not improve Ferry's team?

Maybe I'm not saying this right...my contention is that since KP's taken over, he's traded Blake and Outlaw for Camby, Zach for Rudy and Frye and drafted Batum. And signed Miller using the proceeds of RLEC. Decent job, and I'm not saying he should be fired.
Presti has turned over the entire roster into the youngest team in the league, getting into the playoffs and winning as many playoff* games as we did. He also trimmed salary, stockpiled draft picks and set himself up for cap space in the biggest FA market ever. And the contention by some in here is that he's "lotto balls away from not having a job". Patently effing ridiculous.
 
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BrianFromWA said:
Maybe I'm not saying this right...my contention is that since KP's taken over, he's traded Blake and Outlaw for Camby, Zach for Rudy and Frye and drafted Batum. And signed Miller using the proceeds of RLEC. Decent job, and I'm not saying he should be fired.
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I think not giving Pritchard credit for Roy and Aldridge is a bit disingenuous.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Oh, you can try, but this one's going to hurt ya'.
Click to expand...

Your opinion is supposed to "hurt me"? Dumb statement. I didn't read the rest after you gave zero credit to Pritchard for moving the pieces to get Roy and Aldridge. Try again, but at least be factual.

I don't think Pritchard sucks. If he stays I'm ok with that. You're completely, 100%, off-the-reservation wrong about Presti, though.
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What the fuck has Presti won, other than being ridiculously lucky in terms of injury this year, and lucky that he got the #2 pick in 2007?

I just don't see the fuss about him. You clearly do. No big deal, but don't dismiss Pritchard's impact on the current roster and try to appear to be reasonable.
 
Do it. Please. It'll help you not look foolish on this.
 
I'd really like to help you out with this....your contention Presti hasn't done anything just isn't close to being right. I'm sure that it's just a big coincidence that Vulcan's even thinking about him. Your quote of "he's lotto balls away from not having a job" is obviously so far off the reservation that you won't listen to anything else. I can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
 
BGrantFan said:
Hired PJ Carlesimo.

Just drafted james Harden over Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry.

Seriously, he's some lottery balls a way from being out of the league. The amazing thing about Pritchard is he's build a 50-win team WITHOUT significant help from his own lucky lotto pick. That's the ironic part of the Presti talk, IMO. If the Blazers draft 3,4, or 5 in 2007, Pritchard likely isn't on the hot seat.
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I don't think so. I doubt Oden over Durant has much to do with KP's current situation. My guess is it is a combination of:

so-so draft picks after the 06 draft (that was a group effort),
the screw-up over trying to dump Darius to create more cap space,
complaining about his salary (rumour),
the failure to cash in the "Golden Ticket" that he has so shamelessly hyped,
mishandling the Penn situation and what his agent did on his behalf,
failing to secure an additional cornerstone piece last summer (Miller is fine, but short-term, and only here because KP was saved from a horrible mistake by Toronto),
the clumsy contract extensions for Roy and Aldridge,

am I forgetting anything?

I don't want KP to go based on what I know that is (more or less) public. Yes, even after that list above. All GM's have lengthy "ugly" lists. But, the notion that there isn't any reason to let KP because he has done a great job is not true. His record is very mixed.
 
I don't understand the downplaying of what KP did and praising of what Presti has done. KP also overhauled an entire roster into the youngest in the league and made the playoffs with 54 wins.

From all accounts, or a good majority, KP was in charge of the 2006 ROy and Aldridge draft. The year prior to that, the roster was Zach, Dixon, Telfair, Blake, Miles, Jack, Patterson, Webster, Khryapa, Outlaw, Przybilla, Ratliff, Monia, Ha.

Webster and Joel are the ONLY 2 that remain. Collison is the only remaining Thunder player from when Presti took over. So looks like they both did a major overhaul on the roster.

Kp also trimmed salary, stockpiled draft picks, etc. KP seems to get "blame" for Allen buying picks, but Presti has benefited from that as well, in a sense. He acquired Maynor, but had to pay a portion of Harpring's salary. That's like buying the pick. They had Kurt THomas for half a season, and then the salaries of Barry and Elson, which is another 8 million or so paid for those first rounders. One will come this season. One was Ibaka. One was Beaubois, who was traded for Mullens. Taking on salary is similar enough, IMO, to paying for the pick. KP gets blamed for having a cap space plan, and sitting on his hands for a year or two, but OKC has had cap space they could have used, and didn't make a big splash last season. KP gets criticized for not making a big trade for a veteran, but Presti, with his team on the verge of the playoffs this season, didn't make a big trade for a veteran, even though he likely could have made a deal for Camby or Haywood, who would have greatly helped the team. No, they weren't going to win the title this season, but we weren't last season, in the same scenario, and KP gets criticized for that.
 
RR7 said:
I don't understand the downplaying of what KP did and praising of what Presti has done. KP also overhauled an entire roster into the youngest in the league and made the playoffs with 54 wins.

From all accounts, or a good majority, KP was in charge of the 2006 ROy and Aldridge draft. The year prior to that, the roster was Zach, Dixon, Telfair, Blake, Miles, Jack, Patterson, Webster, Khryapa, Outlaw, Przybilla, Ratliff, Monia, Ha.

Webster and Joel are the ONLY 2 that remain. Collison is the only remaining Thunder player from when Presti took over. So looks like they both did a major overhaul on the roster.

Kp also trimmed salary, stockpiled draft picks, etc. KP seems to get "blame" for Allen buying picks, but Presti has benefited from that as well, in a sense. He acquired Maynor, but had to pay a portion of Harpring's salary. That's like buying the pick. They had Kurt THomas for half a season, and then the salaries of Barry and Elson, which is another 8 million or so paid for those first rounders. One will come this season. One was Ibaka. One was Beaubois, who was traded for Mullens. Taking on salary is similar enough, IMO, to paying for the pick. KP gets blamed for having a cap space plan, and sitting on his hands for a year or two, but OKC has had cap space they could have used, and didn't make a big splash last season. KP gets criticized for not making a big trade for a veteran, but Presti, with his team on the verge of the playoffs this season, didn't make a big trade for a veteran, even though he likely could have made a deal for Camby or Haywood, who would have greatly helped the team. No, they weren't going to win the title this season, but we weren't last season, in the same scenario, and KP gets criticized for that.
Click to expand...

Repped for finally bringing sanity to the thread.

There is a difference between "not being a homer" and "self-deprecating." And I think quite a few posters in this thread are reaching to find faults in KP.
 
You don't have to tear down Presti to build up KP. That's just silly.

Presti was trained by the same folks as KP, and has done a good job with a team that was in horrible shape. None of which has thing one to do with KP.

This is not a zero sum game. It is perfectly plausible that BOTH have done a good job.
 
RR7 said:
I don't understand the downplaying of what KP did and praising of what Presti has done. KP also overhauled an entire roster into the youngest in the league and made the playoffs with 54 wins.
Click to expand...
Easy. Someone said that Presti was a "couple of lotto balls from not having a job", and couldn't understand why on earth he'd be rumored to be up for the Portland opening. Fact after fact was shown why that was ludicrous.
KP got criticized for not using RLEC (after he himself pimped it up) and for blowing the 2009 draft. And then not getting his top three targets in Free Agency. He got praised for the Batum pick and the Camby trade. I also think KP should take the blame for the Miles mess, unless it came from above. Presti hasn't made those missteps, and has made "small moves" work for him to stockpile assets. I said earlier that I don't think Presti's draft track record is better than KP's. But I also don't think KP's baking philosophy held a candle to Presti's "get value from non-core assets while we can" philosophy. What deal did Presti have on the table for Camby or Haywood? Which expiring contract did he have dangling out there?
I don't get what you're saying about KP getting blamed for buying picks. I keep saying I'd rather have him at the draft than Presti. The Camby trade was inspired. But nowhere else...including getting in on 3-team trades to trim salary....including getting free agents at below market level....including hiring the Coach of the Year....including turning expiring contracts into future assets...including having cap space in the Summer of LeBron....does KP get within glue-sniffing distance of what Presti's done. To think that KP's untouchable and Presti's a couple lotto balls away from being fired...man.
Where does KP get criticized for losing to HOU last year? I didn't see that in the entire thread.
For about the 3rd time in the thread....I don't think KP should be fired without a better replacement on hand. Presti's one I wouldn't mind. I'm not sure why he'd come. But he's definitely shown he's qualified.
 
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oldmangrouch said:
You don't have to tear down Presti to build up KP. That's just silly.

Presti was trained by the same folks as KP, and has done a good job with a team that was in horrible shape. None of which has thing one to do with KP.

This is not a zero sum game. It is perfectly plausible that BOTH have done a good job.
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I guess I don't see where I built up Pritchard, other than to say he has assembled a more successful team without much help from his Golden Lottery Ticket.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Do it. Please. It'll help you not look foolish on this.
Click to expand...

I'd appreciate if you would start making some sense in this post. Do what? You gave Pritchard no credit for Roy and Aldridge. This is laughably ignorant.
 
False. I showed that when KP took the job, who his roster was. And then what the roster was when Presti took his job. And what's happened since. You're the only one who's said something laughable in this thread, with your "couple of lotto balls from not having a job" comment.

You want me to say that KP influenced the Roy/LMA trades? Fine. Done. He's been good at the draft. I've only said that about 10 times now. Are you now going to say you were wrong about Presti's accomplishments?
 
BrianFromWA said:
False. I showed that when KP took the job, who his roster was. And then what the roster was when Presti took his job.
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As I said, you're not at all being objective about this. how about the contracts that each had when they got their jobs? How about the actual results.

I thought you were a somewhat sound basketball mind. Looks like I was wrong. Oh well.
 
This thread is ludicrous except for maybe two or three posts. Both guys did a good job. The main reason to consider dumping Pritchard at this point is for a fresh start, a fresh face to the team and the possibility that Pritchard really has alienated other teams from trading with him (I believe this is a possibility not a certainty). Presti is easily my first choice out there if we must replace Pritchard.

What kills me is that we are talking about replacing KP and not Nate with Thibedeau. WTF VULCAN!!!!

P.S. If we trade Oden, I promise he will have a renaissance elsewhere that will make us weep. It's possible he will always suck in Portland due to his temperment and the vitriol from the fans over unlucky injuries/attitude due to injuries.
 
Idog1976 said:
This thread is ludicrous except for maybe two or three posts. Both guys did a good job. The main reason to consider dumping Pritchard at this point is for a fresh start, a fresh face to the team and the possibility that Pritchard really has alienated other teams from trading with him (I believe this is a possibility not a certainty). Presti is easily my first choice out there if we must replace Pritchard.

What kills me is that we are talking about replacing KP and not Nate with Thibedeau. WTF VULCAN!!!!
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I'd agree with most of this thinking except for the part that assumes we can even reasonably guess at why the organization might choose to move onto a new GM. It could be any number of things from outside our scope... most internal matters are. It could even be that most of those with a say so want a new coach but Pritchard wants to stay the course and re-up Nate or maybe it's vice versa :dunno: maybe time passing will clear up whats really what, maybe not. Thats how it goes when you're just a fan... but I sure as hell won't be surprised if all this KP is a goner stuff turns out to be BS.

but to be sure, your main point that some are going way overboard in this thread is spot on. Both Pritchard and Presti have made some missteps but overall have laid the groundwork for two of the better young teams in the league... things are in much better shape then when they arrived. I'd guess that they'll be sought after GMs for years

STOMP
 
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