Principal loses job over Spanish speaking

[Mediocre Man]

http://www.chron.com/news/education...ld-kids-not-to-speak-Spanish-will-5327528.php


Discuss

 

[Natebishop3]

It's a public school so the liberals will defend it, right?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

we speak american here, love it, or get the fuck out

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

we speak american here, love it, or get the fuck out

This pains me, but rep'd.

 

[Eastoff]

I think you should be required to speak english in classes. Outside of class, generally I think it should be okay to not speak english. But I can understand if there are repeated threats or dangers, you could ban another language.

 

[maxiep]

English is not the official language of the United States, but it is the silver bullet to get ahead. If you don't speak English, you're fucked, plain and simple.

I applaud the principal for doing something unpopular for the betterment of the kids.

Here is the money quote for me:

"When you start banning aspects of ethnicity or cultural identity," says Augustin Pinedo, director of the League of United Latin American Citizens Region 18, "it sends the message that the child is not wanted: 'We don't want your color. We don't want your kind.' They then tend to drop out early."

I couldn't disagree with this sentiment more strongly. Speak whatever you wish in your home or outside the school grounds. Hell, three of my four grandparents spoke a language different than English when they were at home, but when they were at school, English was all they spoke. It is the language of assimilation in the United States. Keep speaking Spanish, and you limit your future options.

 

[Eastoff]

English is not the official language of the United States, but it is the silver bullet to get ahead. If you don't speak English, you're fucked, plain and simple.

I applaud the principal for doing something unpopular for the betterment of the kids.

Here is the money quote for me:

I couldn't disagree with this sentiment more strongly. Speak whatever you wish in your home or outside the school grounds. Hell, three of my four grandparents spoke a language different than English when they were at home, but when they were at school, English was all they spoke. It is the language of assimilation in the United States. Keep speaking Spanish, and you limit your future options.

I think you make a valid point, and perhaps the principal would fair better if they gave statistics about "children who struggle with english are X times more likely to fail a school level."

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Yes, I'm sure the principal tried to ban a language because he was worried about the kids opportunities for the future.

This is fucking nutballs.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

How stupid of her. However, as someone who has to listen to people speak spanish all the time I must say it is very annoying.

 

[MARIS61]

Freedom of Speech is not limited to one language, hence the word Freedom.

I was required to take a semester of Spanish in the eighth grade.

As for learning English, what better way than to have it explained to you by a friend who speaks your native Spanish?

 

[MARIS61]

How stupid of her. However, as someone who has to listen to people speak spanish all the time I must say it is very annoying.

Si.

 

[Denny Crane]

She was rightfully terminated. There is an obvious campaign to intimidate the kids and Hispanic school district employees.

People in Chinatown speak Chinese and thrive. It's bullshit that one must speak English outside the home to thrive.

If you care about the kids' education, then they can be taught physics or math or history , etc., in whatever language makes sense.

If the schools want to require English as a 2nd language, like MARIS' year of Spanish example, then fine.

This principal wanted to ban Spanish on campus, period. The norm of the community is to speak Spanish. It shouldn't be surprising that the kids speak freely in the lunch room or playground.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

English is not the official language of the United States, but it is the silver bullet to get ahead. If you don't speak English, you're fucked, plain and simple.

I applaud the principal for doing something unpopular for the betterment of the kids.

Here is the money quote for me:

I couldn't disagree with this sentiment more strongly. Speak whatever you wish in your home or outside the school grounds. Hell, three of my four grandparents spoke a language different than English when they were at home, but when they were at school, English was all they spoke. It is the language of assimilation in the United States. Keep speaking Spanish, and you limit your future options.

I agree that the children should be taught English. However, banning Spanish is not the way to go about it. My five year old has been in a Chinese immersion program for the last three years. They have not banned English on campus in order to get the kids to speak Mandarin yet have a hugely successful program. The percentage of English taught in class is raised every year where kindergarten is almost entirely Mandarin and fifth grade it is an even split. Testing results show that not only do they pick up a second language but outperform the kids only taught English by the end of elementary.

"When you start banning aspects of ethnicity or cultural identity," says Augustin Pinedo, director of the League of United Latin American Citizens Region 18, "it sends the message that the child is not wanted: 'We don't want your color. We don't want your kind.' They then tend to drop out early."

Agree that this was the money quote. You are not going to get results by merely banning Spanish. It is a lazy policy that has been shown not to work.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

If the schools want to require English as a 2nd language, like MARIS' year of Spanish example, then fine.

I do not agree with this. Waiting till middle school or later, then only teaching for a year and one hour at a time is a horrible way to ensure kids can speak a second language. Starting at the kindergarten level or earlier yields drastically better results.

 

[Mediocre Man]

This is a different issue, but what I hate is that it is almost a requirement to be bilingual in order to land some jobs.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

This is a different issue, but what I hate is that it is almost a requirement to be bilingual in order to land some jobs.

Example?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Example?

Teaching jobs, state & federal jobs- many require being bi-lingual to even apply.

 

[Cryptkeeper]

we speak american here, love it, or get the fuck out

Logic, my friend.

 

[Eastoff]

This is a different issue, but what I hate is that it is almost a requirement to be bilingual in order to land some jobs.

Teaching jobs, state & federal jobs- many require being bi-lingual to even apply.

This is sort of true, and sort of misleading. Many of the jobs that stay open, are the bilingual jobs. But the majority of state and federal jobs are not required to be bi-lingual. Those are just the hardest to fill or the newest openings.

 

[jlprk]

English is not the official language of the United States, but it is the silver bullet to get ahead. If you don't speak English, you're fucked, plain and simple.

True, but in the near-future, Chinese will be the international language. I believe that American schools should require children to speak only Chinese in school. If they want to get ethnic at home and speak American, it's okay what they do with their private time.

 

[Denny Crane]

I do not agree with this. Waiting till middle school or later, then only teaching for a year and one hour at a time is a horrible way to ensure kids can speak a second language. Starting at the kindergarten level or earlier yields drastically better results.

In practice, you get a lot of drop outs instead of drastically better results.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

In practice, you get a lot of drop outs instead of drastically better results.

What study are you looking at?

 

[Denny Crane]

What study are you looking at?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/05/09/iii-young-hispanics-dropping-out-of-high-school/

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/05/09/iii-young-hispanics-dropping-out-of-high-school/

I have no idea what point you are trying to support with this link. It says nothing about immersion programs and just notes the dropout rates without much regard for the variables involved.

 

[MarAzul]

http://www.chron.com/news/education...ld-kids-not-to-speak-Spanish-will-5327528.php


Discuss

A couple years ago, My wife an I went looking for a suitable school for our nearly five year old grandson. The closest preschool was the Head Start in town, so that was the first on the list we checked. The parking lot had several signs in Spanish but oddly enough nothing in English, but undeterred I went in. A person came over and spoke to me in Spannish. I have never been mistaken for an Hispanic person before, but I let is slide.
I explained ( in English) about the grandson and I ask to see a class in action. She explained that I could not be allow to disrupt a class but she offered me a broacher explaining the goals of the school. It was in both Spanish and English, Published some where back east.

I went on down to the next on the list, a Montessori school which dd indeed meet the need. I had the feeling the Head Start school was a total waste of the tax payers dime, but worse yet a hell of a waste of a kids time if you screwed up and sent him there.

 

[Denny Crane]

I have no idea what point you are trying to support with this link. It says nothing about immersion programs and just notes the dropout rates without much regard for the variables involved.

The dropout rates are something like 5x more for Hispanics than for white kids. Am I off by an order of magnitude even? 50x.

Tinker around the edges and pretend it will have a significant enough effect. Or realize these kids can become brain surgeons and rocket scientists if taught in Spanish.

Immersion works for those who stick around, obviously. The success rate is hardly something to be proud of.

 

[Denny Crane]

The dropout rates are something like 5x more for Hispanics than for white kids. Am I off by an order of magnitude even? 50x.

Tinker around the edges and pretend it will have a significant enough effect. Or realize these kids can become brain surgeons and rocket scientists if taught in Spanish.

Immersion works for those who stick around, obviously. The success rate is hardly something to be proud of.

The statistics are about 45% of spanish speaking kids drop out (age 16-24) - there are near a million of these hispanic dropouts. Compared to about 6% for white kids and about 1.5M aged 16-24. The white population is ~2/3 of all people in the US. There are about 5x more white people than hispanic.

45% is a GREAT dropout rate! /sarcasm

 

[MarAzul]

The dropout rates are something like 5x more for Hispanics than for white kids. Am I off by an order of magnitude even? 50x.

Tinker around the edges and pretend it will have a significant enough effect. Or realize these kids can become brain surgeons and rocket scientists if taught in Spanish.

Immersion works for those who stick around, obviously. The success rate is hardly something to be proud of.

Naw, it doesn't work. I lived where they tried it, Morgan Hill, CA. about 25 years ago
The High School had most courses taught in English and Spanish. The Hispanics where about 40% of the total in the 8th and 9th grades at that time. The Spanish classes had zero students enrolled in the 11 and 12th grade classes. While 40% Hispanics started high school , less than 10% were left to graduate with zero of them taking the Spanish speaking classes.

The vast majority of them, at the time I am speaking of simply dropped out of school after completing 9 or 10 years. Teaching them in Spanish seemed to have no impact. But I have to say that most were long time residents, very few were new illegals, at that time, in that town.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

The link you provided Denny says that high school completers to dropouts was 5:1 for Hispanics and 12:1 for Whites. Among blacks it was 4:1. All of those numbers were in improvement from 2000 to 2012 with the exception of the black graduation numbers staying the same. It mentions nothing about the variables involved, like whether immersion programs were offered or not.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Just to clarify, I am not arguing for or against having middle and high school in an alternate language. What I am against is trying to teach a kid a new language after elementary with one hour a day instruction.