Principal loses job over Spanish speaking

[Charcoal Filtered]

I went on down to the next on the list, a Montessori school which dd indeed meet the need. I had the feeling the Head Start school was a total waste of the tax payers dime, but worse yet a hell of a waste of a kids time if you screwed up and sent him there.

I would say the Head Start program might be inefficient, as were many of the preschool options we looked at, but not a waste of money. The military is inefficient too, but definitely would not get rid of it.

 

[MarAzul]

I would say the Head Start program might be inefficient, as were many of the preschool options we looked at, but not a waste of money. The military is inefficient too, but definitely would not get rid of it.

Having served in the military, I see almost no correlation to Head Start. Given the sort of crap we had to do, we the military did it remarkable well.
On the other hand the Head start program from the perspective they allowed me to see is a crude attempt to providing education for some hapless kids that no doubt need the function. It could be done, perhaps even
well if done at the local level with local control, if given adequate funding. But that sure was not what I encountered. however it is about what I expect from a Federally run program.

 

[MarAzul]

Having served in the military, I see almost no correlation to Head Start. Given the sort of crap we had to do, we the military did it remarkable well.
On the other hand the Head start program from the perspective they allowed me to see is a crude attempt to providing education for some hapless kids that no doubt need the function. It could be done, perhaps even
well if done at the local level with local control, if given adequate funding. But that sure was not what I encountered. however it is about what I expect from a Federally run program.

You see a clue right off in the way a Federal program is run. They would not let me see a class functioning because they see no need to cater to an individual nor do they fear any consequences in rejecting my request.
The local school did not reject the request, The Montessori school did not either, to the contrary, they were happy to accommodated me and show me what ever I wished. They wanted the business.

 

[Denny Crane]

The link you provided Denny says that high school completers to dropouts was 5:1 for Hispanics and 12:1 for Whites. Among blacks it was 4:1. All of those numbers were in improvement from 2000 to 2012 with the exception of the black graduation numbers staying the same. It mentions nothing about the variables involved, like whether immersion programs were offered or not.

The data for 1st generation Hispanics is 1/2 drop out (45%). Just shy of 1M of them between ages 16-24. Compared to 1.5M for white students between 16-24, and a dropout rate of ~5%.

Success! /sarcasm

The kids are immersed in society that speaks English. If the parents think like maxiep, they should send their kids to a school that specializes, somehow, in graduating English speaking immigrants. Otherwise the schools should focus on teaching the kids and giving them a track for advanced education or a trade skill.

In Mountain View, two thirds of the kids were Spanish speaking. There were 3 grade schools and 3 high schools. 2 of the 3 should have been Spanish speaking.

IMO.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

The data for 1st generation Hispanics is 1/2 drop out (45%). Just shy of 1M of them between ages 16-24. Compared to 1.5M for white students between 16-24, and a dropout rate of ~5%.

Success! /sarcasm

You keep saying this but no where on that link you provided do I find where that says that.

 

[Denny Crane]

You keep saying this but no where on that link you provided do I find where that says that.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/122.pdf

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Having served in the military, I see almost no correlation to Head Start. Given the sort of crap we had to do, we the military did it remarkable well.
On the other hand the Head start program from the perspective they allowed me to see is a crude attempt to providing education for some hapless kids that no doubt need the function. It could be done, perhaps even
well if done at the local level with local control, if given adequate funding. But that sure was not what I encountered. however it is about what I expect from a Federally run program.

The correlation I was making was inefficiency and need. Look at how much money is spent wisely. I look at things like providing overpriced meals in Iraq, which Haliburton was paid handsomely for, when the soldiers did not have body armour. I believe it is the show American Greed showed where a pair of sisters that got a contract for a critical war part (washers, bolts, nuts, etc that could probably have been found at a hardware store) and found they could charge anything to deliver them. It was not till millions later that it was found.

 

[Denny Crane]

The 1m/1.5m figures here:

http://nces.ed.gov/ssbr/pages/dropout.asp?IndID=5

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

You see a clue right off in the way a Federal program is run. They would not let me see a class functioning because they see no need to cater to an individual nor do they fear any consequences in rejecting my request.
The local school did not reject the request, The Montessori school did not either, to the contrary, they were happy to accommodated me and show me what ever I wished. They wanted the business.

It was one school. The same program may be different in other parts of the country.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/122.pdf

Who is to say what changes could be made to fix this problem? I did not see anywhere in that report that put the blame solely on language. There are many other factors that result in dropouts. I am betting the graduation rates of every race fall directly in line with income.

I like that this shows the difference between first and second generation graduation rates. Nice that the second generation can see the value of graduating.

 

[Denny Crane]

Who is to say what changes could be made to fix this problem? I did not see anywhere in that report that put the blame solely on language. There are many other factors that result in dropouts. I am betting the graduation rates of every race fall directly in line with income.

I like that this shows the difference between first and second generation graduation rates. Nice that the second generation can see the value of graduating.

2nd generation has nothing to do with education, though. It's because they lived in society. Typical 1st generation families speak their native tongue, 2nd generation speak 2 languages, 3rd generation speak english.

The numbers I identified are for those who clearly have the language problems. For all immigrants, the dropout rate is 20%, but for hispanics 50%. I assume the dropout rate is higher than for the rest of the population because they're strangers in a strange land, so to speak. But even the 50% to 20% kind of numbers speaks to hispanics being poorly served.

I was a parent who attended school board meetings in Mountain View. It is unbelievable the bullshit that goes on in the education system. Vast sums of money cannot be spent for useful purposes by regulation, so the money is swept up by the state govt. and spent on some other form of graft. What do we want, kids to graduate and be successful or do we want them to drop out and become a drag on society or maybe even become criminals?

 

[blue32]

Just can't help but think of this... lol

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

The numbers I identified are for those who clearly have the language problems. For all immigrants, the dropout rate is 20%, but for hispanics 50%. I assume the dropout rate is higher than for the rest of the population because they're strangers in a strange land, so to speak. But even the 50% to 20% kind of numbers speaks to hispanics being poorly served.

To say that language is the only problem with immigrants is ignoring all of the other factors that cause dropouts though.

Among Hispanics, low-income families are much more likely to be headed by foreign-born adults. Nearly two-thirds of low-income Hispanic families are headed by an immigrant, compared with half of middle- and high-income Hispanic families.

http://www.urban.org/publications/411936.html

Family and Community poverty are also not going to change with merely changing the language.

For instance, students living in poor communities are more likely to have dropouts as friends, which increases the likelihood of dropping out of school.

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/indicator/2013/05/poverty-dropouts.aspx

What do we want, kids to graduate and be successful or do we want them to drop out and become a drag on society or maybe even become criminals?

I would agree with you that spending money on schools would be better than spending it on prisons or public assistance.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't buy the poverty claim. The country always was about poor people (huddled masses) making good here. Immigrants have always had language problems. Some of them spoke Spanish, German, French, Yiddish, Russian, and other european languages (the white people).

There are lots of boats of Chinese or Vietnamese immigrants who make it here fine, even in spite of the language barrier.

This is an old article, the first one I found after spending about 5 seconds searching for it. I've seen and heard similar stories on the news frequently.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-03/news/mn-42768_1_san-francisco

 

[3RA1N1AC]

The country always was about poor people (huddled masses) making good here.

the money word

upward mobility being what it is now it should be called the "european" dream

 

[Denny Crane]

the money word

upward mobility being what it is now it should be called the "european" dream

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrean...ire-immigrants-who-struck-it-rich-in-the-u-s/

In a year when the World Billionaires list broke many records, here’s another one to add: fifty one out of the total 492 billionaire fortunes in the U.S. now belong to foreign-born individuals. They come from a total of 26 nations and made their money in a variety of industries but are most heavily represented in tech, finance and industry.

More at the link

 

[Denny Crane]

That spoke to opportunity. How about mobility?

http://www.sba.gov/advocacy/7540/141841

Overall Findings

• Immigrants are found to have higher business
ownership and formation rates than non-immigrants.
Roughly one out of ten immigrant workers
owns a business and 620 of 100,000 immigrants
(0.62 percent) start a business each month.
• Immigrant-owned businesses start with higher
levels of startup capital than non-immigrant-
owned businesses. Nearly 20 percent of immigrant-
owned businesses started with $50,000 or
more in startup capital, compared with 15.9 percent
of non-immigrant-owned businesses.
• Roughly two-thirds of immigrant-owned businesses
report that the most common source of
startup capital is personal or family savings. Other
commonly reported sources of startup capital by
immigrant businesses are credit cards, bank loans,
personal or family assets, and home equity loans.
Overall, the sources of startup capital used by
immigrant businesses do not differ substantially
from those used by non-immigrant firms.

Highlights

• Businesses owned by immigrants have an average
sales level of $435,000, roughly 70 percent of the
average sales level of non-immigrant firms.
• Immigrant-owned businesses are slightly more
likely to hire employees than are non-immigrant-
owned firms; however, they tend to hire fewer
employees on average.
• Immigrant-owned businesses are more likely to
export their goods and services. Among immi-
grant businesses, 7.1 percent export compared
with only 4.4 percent for non-immigrant busi-
nesses.
• Entrepreneurship increases with maturity, and
married people are more likely to start a business.
• More generally, there is a U-shaped relation-
ship between entrepreneurship and education.
Entrepreneurship rates are lower for high school
graduates than for high school dropouts, but
entrepreneurship rates are similar between those
with some college and high school graduates.
College graduates have higher rates of entrepre-
neurship, and those with graduate degrees have
the highest rates of entrepreneurship.
• Among immigrants, 52.1 percent owned a home
compared with 70.8 percent of non-immigrants.