Projecting where our picks will be slated...

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F it. I'd take MKG if he's there at 4. That'd be shocking, actually. I guess I was just trying to be realistic when I said Drummond.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I could dig it, but I'd rather have Drummond at #4. Drummond and LA playing PF/C. That would be nasty. Tough inside.
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Yeah I'm tired of wings, unless that's a wing whom will become a superstar. I want us to finally turn the page on Oden and get a replacement center. I know Drummond's "ceiling" is not even close to Oden's, but he looks nasty and possibly a defensive monster. Aldridge needs a player with toughness to play in the paint with him. Pryzbilla is showing, even an aging defensive tough guy does wonders for him.
 
magnifier661 said:
Yeah I'm tired of wings, unless that's a wing whom will become a superstar. I want us to finally turn the page on Oden and get a replacement center. I know Drummond's "ceiling" is not even close to Oden's, but he looks nasty and possibly a defensive monster. Aldridge needs a player with toughness to play in the paint with him. Pryzbilla is showing, even an aging defensive tough guy does wonders for him.
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That's what I was originally thinking. You have LA and Drummond. I know some people say slide LA to C, but he's not a C. He doesn't play quite with enough force to play it the majority of the time. So, LA and Drummond would be nasty together down-low. Bring back Joel for a year or two as the backup. Get a backup PF.

At 11, you draft the best player available at PG, SG, or SF. I think there are a few guys that could start next year, or at least play quality minutes there. Would love Rivers, or I'd love to see us bring Terrence Jones home.
 
magnifier661 said:
Yeah I'm tired of wings, unless that's a wing whom will become a superstar. I want us to finally turn the page on Oden and get a replacement center. I know Drummond's "ceiling" is not even close to Oden's, but he looks nasty and possibly a defensive monster. Aldridge needs a player with toughness to play in the paint with him. Pryzbilla is showing, even an aging defensive tough guy does wonders for him.
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Why isn't Drummond's 'ceiling' close to Oden's? If Drummond can be healthy, he already would be more productive than Oden. Drummond is going to be a project for sure, but right off the bat he'll be a shot blocker, a guy that will make guards think twice about driving the lane. Those kind of guys are so valuable in a league that is void of big men. Anything he can get going offensively will just be icing on the cake.

There was a time that I thought I'd rather have Drummond over Davis. Now I like Davis better, but Drummond ain't no chopped liver.
 
MickZagger said:
Why isn't Drummond's 'ceiling' close to Oden's? If Drummond can be healthy, he already would be more productive than Oden. Drummond is going to be a project for sure, but right off the bat he'll be a shot blocker, a guy that will make guards think twice about driving the lane. Those kind of guys are so valuable in a league that is void of big men. Anything he can get going offensively will just be icing on the cake.

There was a time that I thought I'd rather have Drummond over Davis. Now I like Davis better, but Drummond ain't no chopped liver.
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Oden averaged 16pts/10reb/3.3blk in 29min a game....playing with a broken wrist (his strong hand)

There's a pretty big gap between then
 
MickZagger said:
Why isn't Drummond's 'ceiling' close to Oden's? If Drummond can be healthy, he already would be more productive than Oden. Drummond is going to be a project for sure, but right off the bat he'll be a shot blocker, a guy that will make guards think twice about driving the lane. Those kind of guys are so valuable in a league that is void of big men. Anything he can get going offensively will just be icing on the cake.

There was a time that I thought I'd rather have Drummond over Davis. Now I like Davis better, but Drummond ain't no chopped liver.
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I'm surprised that a lot of mocks I've seen have Drummond falling to 4-5. With his skill level, and given this is a deep draft but with no sure-fire stars, I figured he'd go #2 right after Davis. I hope I'm wrong and he is available to us, but I figure by the time draft night comes around, Drummond will have worked his way up to 2-3.
 
RoyToy said:
Oden averaged 16pts/10reb/3.3blk in 29min a game....playing with a broken wrist (his strong hand)

There's a pretty big gap between then
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Players develop at a different age. Maybe that was Oden's 'ceiling'.
 
I thought MKG already came out saying he was staying at UK for another year? I could be wrong though.
 
Every time I look at Greg's advanced stats I'm shocked. Before he hurt his left knee he looked absolutely atrocious in the Vegas Summer League. Jason Quick covered some of the practices and Joel Freeland owned Greg head-to-head. He had one post move and no counter moves.

Before he went down he had a string of great games but he mostly was a foul machine who could never stay on the floor.

The dominant Oden we saw against Florida we only got to see once (vs. Chicago in 2009) in his 82 games with the Blazers.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
With us making the playoffs, as Mags predicts, we couldn't have the #1 pick (without making a trade for it).
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Love Mags but he's in fantasy land about the playoffs, we will not make them and I'd prefer the better pick
 
You guys will love Chad Ford's mock 1.0

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1

He has us taking Bradley Beal at 4 (too high IMO)

Analysis: The Blazers grabbed this pick from the Nets as part of the Gerald Wallace trade last week. The pick is top-three protected, so if the Nets keep losing, it will revert back to New Jersey. For now, this is the best-case scenario for the Blazers, who have a lot of needs after blowing the team up. And shooting guard is a big one.

Beal hasn't had a domiant freshman season, but his scoring ability in the backcourt would help the Blazers get over the loss of Brandon Roy a little sooner.
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and Tyler Zeller at 11 (SMH and FML)

Analysis: If the Blazers can land Beal with their first pick, they would likely look to fill their holes at center or point guard. In a weak point guard draft, their two available options here would be Kendall Marshall and Tony Wroten Jr. While both have strengths, I think the Blazers would go big and take Zeller. He's not going to be a star, but he runs the floor like a guard and has gotten better every year.
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Fez Hammersticks said:
Anyway, they have Portland taking MKG (#4) and Rivers (#11)
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i know mock drafts just go by record at the time, but NJ finishing with the 4th worst record only gives us a 10% chance at the 4th pick. kinda makes mock drafts speculating about who we will take at 4 pointless. at best we should be thinking about #5.
 
RoyToy said:
No doubt.

That said, I think he would be right there with Dwight Howard if healthy.
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I don't. I think he'd be good. But I don't think he'd be D-Howard good. But it's unlikely you'll never be able to prove it, and neither will I. Even if Oden does come back, it's more than likely he'll never reach his probable ceiling before injuries. But we'll never know that either. Maybe he comes back, puts up 10/10 and that was his ceiling before injury. We'll never know.

What I do know.... hindsight is 20/20 and hot damn I wish we had Durant.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I don't. I think he'd be good. But I don't think he'd be D-Howard good. But it's unlikely you'll never be able to prove it, and neither will I. Even if Oden does come back, it's more than likely he'll never reach his probable ceiling before injuries. But we'll never know that either. Maybe he comes back, puts up 10/10 and that was his ceiling before injury. We'll never know.

What I do know.... hindsight is 20/20 and hot damn I wish we had Durant.
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Just looking at some of his productivity levels, they match up very will with Howard's at the same age/years in the league. Remember, it took Dwight about 4-5 years to really be what he is today where he actually has some post moves.

Also, we're talking about a healthy Oden. We never really got a healthy Oden. He still had some very promising levels of productivity, though.
 
RoyToy said:
Just looking at some of his productivity levels, they match up very will with Howard's at the same age/years in the league. Remember, it took Dwight about 4-5 years to really be what he is today where he actually has some post moves.

Also, we're talking about a healthy Oden. We never really got a healthy Oden. He still had some very promising levels of productivity, though.
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This is hilarious stuff. Maybe the numbers were similar (in an extremely small sample size), but I'm not going to project Oden's career based on 82 games over 5 seasons (or even his first 3 seasons, or even the 2 he was active during). It's funny how hard you're arguing for something you want us to see, when you can't admit that Drummond could actually have a higher ceiling than Oden.

5 years, or 10 years, or whatever, from now.... At this jecture, it's more likely we'll have seen Drummond's ceiling than we'll have seen Oden's ceiling. You trying to compare Oden's 82 games over 5 years and project and compare him to a probable-HOFer like Howard is going to be FAR more of a stretch, than posters here trying to compare a guy like Drummond's ceiling to Oden's hypothetical ceiling.

This is all assuming Drummond stays healthy, but considering you're comparing a healthy Oden (which simply has NOT happened since EVER) to what Drummond could be if he remains healthy over the course of his career, I'd say the health discussion is a moot point.
 
The scouts are on my side in this, sorry. Basically every scout said he was a franchise center and comparisons were made to players like David Robinson, Bill Russell, Shaq, etc. He put up pretty good numbers in college playing with one hand. His productivity level was there when he was at his healthiest in the NBA, although he still never was what he was before MF. Even with being a different player after MF, all signs were point to Oden being one of the best centers in the leauge, and imo, could have been as good as Dwight Howard. Without those injuries? Who knows.

When you find me a consensus opinion from scouts about Drummond being a franchise center then we can talk.
 
RoyToy said:
The scouts are on my side in this, sorry. Basically every scout said he was a franchise center and comparisons were made to players like David Robinson, Bill Russell, Shaq, etc. He put up pretty good numbers in college playing with one hand. His productivity level was there when he was at his healthiest in the NBA, although he still never was what he was before MF. Even with being a different player after MF, all signs were point to Oden being one of the best centers in the leauge, and imo, could have been as good as Dwight Howard. Without those injuries? Who knows.

When you find me a consensus opinion from scouts about Drummond being a franchise center then we can talk.
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No need to apologize - you just proved my point. Your point is based on one thing and one thing only: opinion.

We'll never know on Oden. Even if he does come back and play. Drummond still has a future, and while I don't see anything touting him as a "HOF" center, I don't see much discounting that notion, either. My original point is everything you're saying is based on opinion, which is exactly what you did with another poster when he made a point that not all players develop at the same time.
 
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BLAZINGGIANTS said:
No need to apologize - you just proved my point. Your opinion is based on one thing and one thing only: opinion.
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An opinion that is backed up by facts and statistics, yes.

If you can find me a general consensus among scouts that Drummond is the next David Robinson or Bill Russell I'm all ears.
 
RoyToy said:
An opinion that is backed up by facts and statistics, yes.

If you can find me a general consensus among scouts that Drummond is the next David Robinson or Bill Russell I'm all ears.
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Well one thing is certain. He will never be a Robinson or Russell in his lifetime.
 
magnifier661 said:
Well one thing is certain. He will never be a Robinson or Russell in his lifetime.
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Well no shit

We never really saw what he truly could have been. His career started out with MF surgery and a year off from basketball, and an off-season where he wasn't even cleared to play 5 on 5 until like a month or two before his first season.

The odds were clearly against him from the start.
 
RoyToy said:
An opinion that is backed up by facts and statistics, yes.

If you can find me a general consensus among scouts that Drummond is the next David Robinson or Bill Russell I'm all ears.
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I didn't make that statement. As for your "facts and statistics," there were hardly any stats or facts presented, and they were small sample size and weak. The rest was all your opinion. I don't even care to argue about this. I was just laughing because you have little factual basis for your overall argument, yet you just discredit someone else's opinion - one that actually we will have a chance to see (since Drummond will have an NBA career, we'll get to see the poster's assertion that sometimes players do develop slower). Your opinion? Odds are, we'll never have an answer. So I'm just laughing at you for cutting someone else's opinion, why your opinion is nothing but a fading cloud.

As for you referring to scouts making claims about players - how many times have we heard a scout's opinion and it's been wrong? Sam Bowie? Shawn Bradley? Hasheem Thabeet? Kwame Brown? Walt Williams the next Magic? Tskitishvili? S. Swift? Harold Minor aka Baby Jordan? Olowokandi? Tractor Traylor?

Nothing personal, honestly. But the majority of scouts and their opinions on players means the exact same thing to me as your opinion: pretty much diddly. Like I said, nothing personal. But their are very few talent evaluators I trust, and the few I do follow, they are wrong as often as they are right.

But one thing is for sure: until the player gets out and actually performs, whether at a shitty level or HOF, consisitently for a long-term.... it's all just opinion.
 
RoyToy said:
Well no shit

We never really saw what he truly could have been. His career started out with MF surgery and a year off from basketball, and an off-season where he wasn't even cleared to play 5 on 5 until like a month or two before his first season.

The odds were clearly against him from the start.
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Longevity, durability, health.... these are all things that are part of the greatness of the great athletes.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I didn't make that statement. As for your "facts and statistics," there were hardly any stats or facts presented, and they were small sample size and weak. The rest was all your opinion. I don't even care to argue about this. I was just laughing because you have little factual basis for your overall argument, yet you just discredit someone else's opinion - one that actually we will have a chance to see (since Drummond will have an NBA career, we'll get to see the poster's assertion that sometimes players do develop slower). Your opinion? Odds are, we'll never have an answer. So I'm just laughing at you for cutting someone else's opinion, why your opinion is nothing but a fading cloud

As for you referring to scouts making claims about players - how many times have we heard a scout's opinion and it's been wrong? Sam Bowie? Shawn Bradley? Hasheem Thabeet? Kwame Brown? Walt Williams the next Magic? Tskitishvili? S. Swift? Harold Minor aka Baby Jordan? Olowokandi? Tractor Traylor?

Nothing personal, honestly. But the majority of scouts and their opinions on players means the exact same thing to me as your opinion: pretty much diddly. Like I said, nothing personal. But their are very few talent evaluators I trust, and the few I do follow, they are wrong as often as they are right.

But one thing is for sure: until the player gets out and actually performs, whether at a shitty level or HOF, consisitently for a long-term.... it's all just opinion.
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First of all I've been over this Oden thing dozens of times on this board and have presented stats that show Oden was looking very promising. The numbers are there - especially his last 7 games where he averaged 15/10 in 24min a game.

As far as in this thread, I pointed out the fact that Oden's numbers dwarf Drummond's, and then mention the fact Oden played that season with a broken wrist. Maybe you missed this part.

But this all comes down what Oden you want to talk about. If you're comparing Oden's pre MF surgery ceiling to Drummond's ceiling, I'm sorry, you're not going to find any scout that will say Drummond has a higher ceiling.

As far as scouts being wrong, yeah, it happens. I don't think they missed on Oden though. I think injuries are what did Oden in and never allowed him to reach his ceiling (all-star talent).

I don't mean too poo poo Drummond in all of this, but I think people forget how highly regarded Oden was before injuries. He was a physical beast in the mold of Shaq/Howard. Not just super athletic, but powerful, too. Such a rare combination. Drummond seems super athletic, but idk if he shows the same power that those other guys showed.
 
I really don't think it's worth posting about Oden- though I'm on the side that he was a good pick based on the info at the time and would have been the best center in the NBA w/o the injuries.

I think one good thing about being so bad is that we can afford to take the best player available- our core is basically Aldridge and Batum- either one of them can play two positions. If we get a power forward, we can play Aldridge at center- according to Hollinger, this is his best position statistically. If we get a small forward, we can move Batum to SG.

I don't know enough about the picks to have an opinion yet, but the review of Drummond that i've found are positive (though not Oden positive)
 
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