Public Employees Protesting WI Governor

[Sug]

Teachers are fee to leave their jobs if they can't live with the changes the government wish to make. Promises are broken in the private sector all the time by companies that can't afford the benefits they'd like to pay their employees.

True, and I could be making 100k+ if I wanted to in the private sector. I did before I got into teaching, but much the person who decides to serve in the military, I chose to serve as well.

 

[MARIS61]

The moochers don't seem to understand this basic economic fact. Times change, and businesses have to adjust. I've been laid off before in an 'adjustment' for the bottom line; the "promise" they made to me when I was hired was irrelevant.

It's one of the main reasons that I started my own consulting business after 13 years of corporate garbage. It's all on me at this point, and I like that a lot.

What promise do you refer to? Did they promise to employ you forever?

It sounds like you agree with the unions. They should just lay off some teachers like your boss did and not mess with retirement.

Funny that you're now a consultant since rampant, overblown government-paid consultant's fees are the biggest waste of taxpayer money there is.

 

[maxiep]

Let's take this one step at a time:

#1 "I said that you have better benefits than the people paying for your benefits. This is a fact, for the most part."
What are my benefits? Can you tell me exactly what my district offered me? I am pretty sure my Kaiser option is the same as the majority of people across the state. If you are talking about my PERS to which I contribute to every month and the district matches. Let's see as of right now I have received NOTHING from this benefit, but I have paid in a lot. Sure the district has matched my funds, but will I ever see the benefit when I retire? Who knows. I liken it to my social security taxes I pay, who knows.

#2 "You've already shown your disdain for the taxpayers in this thread, Sug. A long post isn't going to walk that one back."
Either quote where I have done this or shut the fuck up already about my entrenchment, and disdain.

#3 "Also, Ted Kennedy was the original sponsor of No Child Left Behind and guided it through committees and a floor vote. Did you forget that, or did you never know about his role in that law?"

Actually Einstein the NCLB was an extension of an existing law that was called The Elementary and Secondary Education Act which was passed in 1965. It was reauthorized by NCLB. I don't have to guess as to your ignorance on this fact as it is already clear to see by your snippy little bitch of a post. As I stated clearly in my "long" post, the problem of government being in collusion with the private sector exists on BOTH sides of the aisle. I marked that text for your poor reading comprehension. In the end it was in fact GWB that finally signed that bill into law. I think that is why people call the healthcare law Obamacare right? I mean that bill became law the same way I think? hardy har har

Anyway, next time you try to flame me please understand that you are clearly not up to the task. You are irrationally driven by your ignorance to the larger picture, and as a result you come off as a dipshit. I know you are passionate about the subject, but you really are being a child. Your response failed to address basically anything I wrote, because you clearly don't know how to respond in an intelligent manner.

If I may jump in, the reason I didn't respond point by point to your detailed posts is because they're irrelevant. The bigger picture is that politicians have made promises to public union employees that the taxpayers can't afford. It means the promises have to be broken. Welcome to the real world.

 

[maxiep]

True, and I could be making 100k+ if I wanted to in the private sector. I did before I got into teaching, but much the person who decides to serve in the military, I chose to serve as well.

Terrific. Then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Sug]

If I may jump in, the reason I didn't respond point by point to your detailed posts is because they're irrelevant. The bigger picture is that politicians have made promises to public union employees that the taxpayers can't afford. It means the promises have to be broken. Welcome to the real world.

They are relevant in that my union is only part of the problem, and at that a small part. The biggest frauds in America occur under the name of patriotism and not the middle class trying to hold onto what little is left.

 

[maxiep]

They are relevant in that my union is only part of the problem, and at that a small part. The biggest frauds in America occur under the name of patriotism and not the middle class trying to hold onto what little is left.

If you examine every state's budget, the largest liability on their books are government employee pensions and health care expenses.

 

[PapaG]

True, and I could be making 100k+ if I wanted to in the private sector. I did before I got into teaching, but much the person who decides to serve in the military, I chose to serve as well.

Great. So you're a moocher x2. Also, what are you "serving"? Does this mean that private school teachers who can't get into your union aren't "serving"?

 

[maxiep]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...overnor_in_wisconsin_spat_38_side_with_unions

 

[maxiep]

An article explaining why we're in so much financial trouble and why something dramatic has to be done

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/20/AR2011022003201.html

 

[MARIS61]

If I may jump in, the reason I didn't respond point by point to your detailed posts is because they're irrelevant. The bigger picture is that politicians have made promises to public union employees that the taxpayers can't afford. It means the promises have to be broken. Welcome to the real world.

I knew you worked in a shady field, but I still thought you had a basic moral code of some sort you followed. In what "real world" is lying justified?

A man is only as good as his word.

For you who claim to worship God:

Proverbs 19 (King James Version)
1. Better is the poor that walketh in his integrity, than he that is perverse in his lips, and is a fool.

5. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

9. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.

22. The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar.

Adherents of Islam:
Punishment of a Liar
Narrated Anas: There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die, and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is the act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them." They again dug the grave deeply for him, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is an act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them." They dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and had to leave him thrown (on the ground).

Source: Sahih Al Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814.

 

[MARIS61]

If you examine every state's budget, the largest liability on their books are government employee pensions and health care expenses.

Government employees are but an extension of government expense, not the other way around.

The current number and quality of government employees at any given time is simply what is required to fulfill the many programs and services government provides at your request through your elected representatives. You, the taxpayer and voter, are the only one who is to blame.

You voted them in and you voted for the programs and services. If you don't like how Democracy works move to China or North Korea.

 

[MARIS61]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...overnor_in_wisconsin_spat_38_side_with_unions

LOL at asking people who have no stake in the outcome.

WTF do the other 49 states care if Wisconsin raises nothing but retards from now on.

What do they care if Wisconsin's state motto has to be changed to "We're not to be trusted"?

 

[Sug]

Great. So you're a moocher x2. Also, what are you "serving"? Does this mean that private school teachers who can't get into your union aren't "serving"?

Is someone in Blackwater serving our country?

 

[maxiep]

I knew you worked in a shady field, but I still thought you had a basic moral code of some sort you followed. In what "real world" is lying justified?

A man is only as good as his word.

For you who claim to worship God:

Proverbs 19 (King James Version)
1. Better is the poor that walketh in his integrity, than he that is perverse in his lips, and is a fool.

5. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

9. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.

22. The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar.

Adherents of Islam:
Punishment of a Liar
Narrated Anas: There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die, and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is the act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them." They again dug the grave deeply for him, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is an act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them." They dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and had to leave him thrown (on the ground).

Source: Sahih Al Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814.

It's not lying if you believe it at the time you made the promise. For example, I had several friends of mine agree to positions with Arthur Andersen after their summer associate program. They went back to school with the knowledge that a position would be waiting for them. During that school year, AA went tits up. It happens. Nothing is certain; we shouldn't pretend it is.

 

[MARIS61]

An article explaining why we're in so much financial trouble and why something dramatic has to be done

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/20/AR2011022003201.html

It doesn't really say why except that Governor Walker is part of the problem, not the solution:

Wisconsin, where Gov. Scott Walker (R) has rocked the legislature with proposed limits on state employee unions, is one of those, Zeitz said. The state is on a two-year budget cycle. This year the governor has talked of a $137 million shortfall, though Zeitz said it was largely of Walker's own making through tax cuts and spending initiatives. In any case, that amount would equal 1 percent of the state budget. "A 1 percent shortfall does not constitute a crisis," Zeitz said.

Walker said the state faces a more than $3 billion deficit next year, but Zeitz said that includes assumptions about program growth and revenue.

 

[maxiep]

Government employees are but an extension of government expense, not the other way around.

The current number and quality of government employees at any given time is simply what is required to fulfill the many programs and services government provides at your request through your elected representatives. You, the taxpayer and voter, are the only one who is to blame.

You voted them in and you voted for the programs and services. If you don't like how Democracy works move to China or North Korea.

How do you propose Wisconsin close its $3.6B budget gap? It may want those services, but it can't afford them. It's not personal; it's just reality.

Have you ever dealt with a buyer where they signed a contract to purchase a home but couldn't close the deal? Perhaps they couldn't get the financing they thought they could, perhaps they lost their job. The point is that circumstances change.

 

[maxiep]

LOL at asking people who have no stake in the outcome.

WTF do the other 49 states care if Wisconsin raises nothing but retards from now on.

What do they care if Wisconsin's state motto has to be changed to "We're not to be trusted"?

Wisconsin is Archduke Ferdinand and Gavrilo Princip in Sarajevo. It's the first domino.

 

[MARIS61]

It's not lying if you believe it at the time you made the promise. For example, I had several friends of mine agree to positions with Arthur Andersen after their summer associate program. They went back to school with the knowledge that a position would be waiting for them. During that school year, AA went tits up. It happens. Nothing is certain; we shouldn't pretend it is.

Keep telling yourself that.

Lying is lying and deliberately reneging on a promise is lying, it's cheating, it's blatant fraud. This is nothing but political diversion and scapegoating and even if successful will not make a single positive baby step toward solving the debt problem in Wisconsin.

As you would know if you read the article you linked.

 

[maxiep]

Is someone in Blackwater serving our country?

Holy fuck, are you serious? Is your position really that if you don't have a government job, you're not serving? I think people that work for charities, non-profits and religious organizations will be interested to know they're selfish bastards.

 

[PapaG]

WTF do the other 49 states care if Wisconsin raises nothing but retards from now on?

Why does President Obama care about what amounts to a state budget issue in Wisconsin? Of all of the stupid deflections I've seen, this one may be the dumbest. No surprise, though, considering the source of it.

 

[maxiep]

Keep telling yourself that.

Lying is lying and deliberately reneging on a promise is lying, it's cheating, it's blatant fraud. This is nothing but political diversion and scapegoating and even if successful will not make a single positive baby step toward solving the debt problem in Wisconsin.

As you would know if you read the article you linked.

So, if you promise your wife you'll take her on a trip next year and you die this summer, you die a liar? I'm serious.

 

[PapaG]

Keep telling yourself that.

Lying is lying and deliberately reneging on a promise is lying, it's cheating, it's blatant fraud. This is nothing but political diversion and scapegoating and even if successful will not make a single positive baby step toward solving the debt problem in Wisconsin.

As you would know if you read the article you linked.

You do realize what "collective bargaining" means, right? It doesn't mean the status quo forever, for one...

 

[maxiep]

It doesn't really say why except that Governor Walker is part of the problem, not the solution:

Wisconsin, where Gov. Scott Walker (R) has rocked the legislature with proposed limits on state employee unions, is one of those, Zeitz said. The state is on a two-year budget cycle. This year the governor has talked of a $137 million shortfall, though Zeitz said it was largely of Walker's own making through tax cuts and spending initiatives. In any case, that amount would equal 1 percent of the state budget. "A 1 percent shortfall does not constitute a crisis," Zeitz said.

Walker said the state faces a more than $3 billion deficit next year, but Zeitz said that includes assumptions about program growth and revenue.

An interesting position. You are now on record as stating that any elected official quoting numbers is now not to be believed. Got it.

 

[PapaG]

Holy fuck, are you serious? Is your position really that if you don't have a government job, you're not serving? I think people that work for charities, non-profits and religious organizations will be interested to know they're selfish bastards.

I think that taxpayers who pay for social services are "serving" more toward that greater good than mooching teachers like Sug, who seemingly are only in it for themselves.

The ride is over, freeloaders.

 

[PapaG]

Is someone in Blackwater serving our country?

Well, they aren't in our country. I do think that someone working in a private school is serving, though, and they don't have taxpayer funded pensions. What makes you better than them Sug? Also, are you equating teaching to fighting a war? If you're the typical teacher, I do worry about the future of our children.

Since I'm helping pay your salary, Sug, why don't you invite into your class so I can observe what kind of "service" you are providing to society?

 

[MARIS61]

How do you propose Wisconsin close its $3.6B budget gap? It may want those services, but it can't afford them. It's not personal; it's just reality.

Have you ever dealt with a buyer where they signed a contract to purchase a home but couldn't close the deal? Perhaps they couldn't get the financing they thought they could, perhaps they lost their job. The point is that circumstances change.

This really isn't going where you wanted.

I did have a home I listed and the buyer was fired 3 days before closing. He thought he'd just not tell anyone, even his wife, but the lender of course checked on closing day and cancelled the sale.

And they paid a penalty for not fulfilling their promise to buy (lost their earnest money). And they didn't get to buy the house, and now live in a run down rental.

They didn't get to take back what they had promised (their earnest money). They just had to live a sparser lifestyle.

Employed teachers should not suffer because some taxpayers are struggling. It is the taxpayers who must trim their personal budgets so they can pay the additional taxes required to fulfill the promises they made through their elected reps.

 

[MARIS61]

Holy fuck, are you serious? Is your position really that if you don't have a government job, you're not serving? I think people that work for charities, non-profits and religious organizations will be interested to know they're selfish bastards.

Religious organizations, by their very definition, do not serve their country.

 

[MARIS61]

So, if you promise your wife you'll take her on a trip next year and you die this summer, you die a liar? I'm serious.

Nobody died.

The elected governor mismanaged the state and blew wads of money rewarding the uber-wealthy with massive tax cuts and exhorbitant spending bills.

Now he's saying "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

 

[PapaG]

Religious organizations, by their very definition, do not serve their country.

Tell that to the church-funded missions who feed homeless people every day.

I'm not religious at all, either. Also, how does a state union worker serve their "country"?

 

[PapaG]

Nobody died.

The elected governor mismanaged the state and blew wads of money rewarding the uber-wealthy with massive tax cuts and exhorbitant spending bills.

Now he's saying "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

Just a total miss, in so many ways.