OT Question for all you Punish the Russian heros. (1 Viewer)

[Cippy91]

you totally missed out on the 60s.....people haven't trusted them since Ike was president in the 50s....the age of optimism. there's never really been trust in govt. People have views about world affairs....others like you seem to have views about people having views.

What? Yeah I’m just having a view on others views. No what I’m saying is you can’t trust them. That reply was directly aimed at people who trust these agencies. You went against your own thing though because you just had a view on me having a view.

 

[dviss1]

Lets do WW3 then and when it goes down, I would like to see the response from that. War is pointless, war is stupid. But hey if that's what you want...

Yup because that's what Reagan did WW3....Wait do you even remember Regan? You don't.

Well Reagan basically pulled his balls out and slapped THE SHIT outta Gorbachev with them.

Reagan TEABAGGED Russians... Not commit treason with them.

 

[dviss1]

Healthcare is something that should be taken? Given? Denied? Healthcare should be some sort of compensation?

That's a huge problem and yes, I believe healthcare is right and not a privilege.

We are the hardest working country in the world, we work the longest hours and take the least amount of time off, that is proven. We don't deserve a basic level of healthcare? Is it not in our national interest to make sure we have the healthiest workforce?

Some people don't want their tax dollars going to certain demographics. You know that's true.

Well I don't want my tax dollars going to the fucking Pentagon. Do I get to choose?

 

[Rhal]

I just find it funny how much some of you believe in the FBI and the CIA, NSA. Do I need to go over some of their history?

the NSA and how they collected peoples data for years and years and it took a whistleblower by the name of Snowden to make people realize. Spying on the American people. Breaking all sorts of laws, abusing it. What about the CIA and their corrupt history?
https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...-cia-did-in-our-names-because-freedom-203648/
1) From the beginning, CIA lawyers dreamed up a novel defense for torturing people.

On November 26, 2001, the CIA’s Office of General Counsel proposed a legal workaround to get away with “torture”. Note that the Orwellian term “enhanced interrogation” was not deployed in these early days to varnish the reality of the acts anticipated. (Italics original. Boldface added.)





“t would, therefore, be a novel application of the necessity defense to avoid prosecution of U.S. officials who tortured to obtain information that saved many lives… A policy decision must be made with regard to U.S. use of torture in light of our obligations under international law, with consideration given to the circumstances and to international opinion on our current campaign against terrorism—states may be very unwilling to call the U.S. to task for torture when it resulted in saving thousands of lives.” [Executive Summary: Page 179]

2) The CIA ran a “dungeon” called COBALT.

It was overseen by a rookie. And the agency’s chief of interrogations thought it was just aces.

“Conditions at CIA detention sites were poor, and were especially bleak early in the program. CIA detainees at the COBALT detention facility were kept in complete darkness and constantly shackled in isolated cells with loud noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste.” [Findings and Conclusions: Page 4]

“The CIA placed a junior officer with no relevant experience in charge of COBALT.” [Findings and Conclusions: Page 10]

“The chief of interrogations, told the CIA OIG that ‘[DETENTION SITE COBALT] is good for interrogations because it is the closest thing he has seen to a dungeon.'” [Executive Summary: Page 50]
3) The conditions at COBALT were medieval and deadly.

“On November XX, 2002, a detainee who had been held partially nude and chained to a concrete floor died from suspected hypothermia at the facility.” [Findings and Conclusions: Page 10]





“Rahman was wearing only a sweatshirt, as [CIA OFFICER 1] had ordered that Rahman’s clothing be removed when he had been judged to be uncooperative during an earlier interrogation. The next day, the guards found Gul Rahman’s dead body.” [Executive Summary: Page 54]


4) Many of the CIA’s interrogators were known sadists.

“This group of officers included individuals who, among other issues, had engaged in inappropriate detainee interrogations, had workplace anger management issues, and had reportedly admitted to sexual assault.” [Executive Summary: Page 50]

5) CIA interrogators threatened to rape or kill the detainees’ mothers and to harm their children.

“CIA officers also threatened at least three detainees with harm to their families – to include threats to harm the children of a detainee, threats to sexually abuse the mother of a detainee, and a threat to ‘cut [a detainee’s] mother’s throat.'” [Findings and Conclusions: Page 4]

6) The CIA intended to permanently disappear a detainee named Abu Zubaydah.

“The CIA lacked a plan for the eventual disposition of its detainees. After taking custody of Abu Zubaydah, CIA officers concluded that he ‘should remain incommunicado for the remainder of his life.'” [Findings and Conclusions: Page 9]

7) Zubaydah was nearly drowned on the waterboard, revived only with the Heimlich maneuver.

“During a waterboard session, Abu Zubaydah “became completely unresponsive, with bubbles rising through his open, full mouth.” He remained unresponsive after the waterboard was rotated upwards and only regained consciousness aifter receiving a “xyphoid thrust.” [Executive Summary: Page 495]

8) The CIA sexually assaulted detainees with brutal “rectal exams.”

“CIA leadership… was also alerted to allegations that rectal exams were conducted with “excessive force” on two detainees at DETENTION SITE COBALT…. CIA records indicate that one of the detainees, Mustafa al-Hawsawi, was later diagnosed with chronic hemorrhoids, an anal fissure, and symptomaticrectal prolapse.” [Executive Summary: Page 100]


9) Detainees, including alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, were subject to, and threatened with, medically unnecessary “rectal rehydration.”

“Chief of Interrogations| [REDACTED] also ordered the rectal rehydration of KSM without a determination of medical need, a procedure that the chief of interrogations would later characterize as illustrative of the interrogator’s ‘total control over the detainee.'” [Executive Summary: Page 82]

“On March 5, 2003, KSM was also subjected to additional rectal rehydration, which [REDACTED] described as … effective in getting KSM to talk.” [Executive Summary: Page 83]

“CIA medical officers discussed rectal rehydration as a means of behavior control.” [Executive Summary: Page 100]

“The officer wrote that, ‘[W]hat I infer is that you get a tube up as far as you can, then open the IV wide.'” [Ibid]

10) CIA torture produced a bounty of fabrications – rather than useful intelligence.

“Throughout the period during which KSM was subjected to the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques, KSM provided inaccurate information, much of which he would later acknowledge was fabricated and recant… In June 2003, KSM stated he fabricated the story because he was ‘under “enhanced measures” when he made these claims and simply told his interrogators what he thought they wanted to hear.'” [Executive Summary: Page 213-214]



What about the FBI?

Oh nothing, these guys just did shit like send letters to MLK demanding he kill himself. They actively tried to destroy the civil rights movement, made deals with gangsters and killers and worked with them, etc. Yet when it comes to this everybody is screaming "omg we must believe them", I mean okay. I still don't think they messed with the elections, it literally makes no sense. That's beside the point. The point is, it's just kinda funny and hypocritical, this belief system in these agencies after their massively corrupt past and present. Come on

You do realize its not just the FBI who says Russia meddled, its Trumps own Cabinet as well as ALL OF OUR ALLIES. Instead you want to believe that Putin a man who has been proven to be a very smart snack in the grass who has no qualms about lying and covering up anything, he is former KGB for gods sake. If thats not enough for you to believe then you wouldn't believe Trump shot a guy if he was standing over the body with a pistol still smoking in his hand.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Healthcare is something that should be taken? Given? Denied? Healthcare should be some sort of compensation?

That's a huge problem and yes, I believe healthcare is right and not a privilege.

We are the hardest working country in the world, we work the longest hours and take the least amount of time off, that is proven. We don't deserve a basic level of healthcare? Is it not in our national interest to make sure we have the healthiest workforce?

How is anything I can't do on my own a right?

Look up wikipedia. It mentions the right to comprehensive sexuality education. Wtf is wrong with people?

Oh yeah, since healthcare is a right could you explain what the "basic" level is?

Ankle surgery?
Nose jobs?
Heart transplants?

I want everyone who desires any of those to get it.

If we move toward single payer healthcare for all it isn't because it is a right. It is because we decide as a group to provide it.

 

[Cippy91]

Yup because that's what Reagan did WW3....Wait do you even remember Regan? You don't.

Well Reagan basically pulled his balls out and slapped THE SHIT outta Gorbachev with them.

Reagan TEABAGGED Russians... Not commit treason with them.

I wasn’t around but do we even wanna talk about how regan was as a president? I know some things

 

[Cippy91]

You do realize its not just the FBI who says Russia meddled, its Trumps own Cabinet as well as ALL OF OUR ALLIES. Instead you want to believe that Putin a man who has been proven to be a very smart snack in the grass who has no qualms about lying and covering up anything, he is former KGB for gods sake. If thats not enough for you to believe then you wouldn't believe Trump shot a guy if he was standing over the body with a pistol still smoking in his hand.

I don’t believe putin at all. I’m just saying throughout the last year and a half this whole narrative has been going on and nothing substantial has come of it. None. This narrative will continue throughout his presidency and the whole reason it was created was because the dude wasn’t supposed to win so the real elite started it up. It’s classic shit done by them. It’s not like I’m saying oh yeah trump is a great president. He isn’t. I just think the Russian narrative is ridiculous

 

[H.C.]

I don’t believe putin at all. I’m just saying throughout the last year and a half this whole narrative has been going on and nothing substantial has come of it. None. This narrative will continue throughout his presidency and the whole reason it was created was because the dude wasn’t supposed to win so the real elite started it up. It’s classic shit done by them. It’s not like I’m saying oh yeah trump is a great president. He isn’t. I just think the Russian narrative is ridiculous

Just like the birther movement was ridiculous. However that went on throughout Obama's 8 years.
Frankly, if a certain few posters read this post I'm typing out... It will be hilarious to read their responses.

Trump isn't getting singled out by the opposing party, it's happened to every single president in my lifetime.
It's ridiculous the opposing party decides to be such an opposition. But no one party is more innocent than the other.
But it's also ridiculous the winning party points fingers as why nothing gets done.
No one cares about fixing the problems in Washington.
The only thing they care about is $ and how to best reelect a republican or democrat for the next election period.

However the problem isn't just in Washington.
Certain posters on this board for both sides care more about the party they support winning, than actually who the best candidate is.
Therefore if we as a populace are so petty, why shouldn't the government look to capitalize on that?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Just like the birther movement was ridiculous. However that went on throughout Obama's 8 years.
Frankly, if a certain few posters read this post I'm typing out... It will be hilarious to read their responses.

Trump isn't getting singled out by the opposing party, it's happened to every single president in my lifetime.
It's ridiculous the opposing party decides to be such an opposition. But no one party is more innocent than the other.
But it's also ridiculous the winning party points fingers as why nothing gets done.
No one cares about fixing the problems in Washington.
The only thing they care about is $ and how to best reelect a republican or democrat for the next election period.

However the problem isn't just in Washington.
Certain posters on this board for both sides care more about the party they support winning, than actually who the best candidate is.
Therefore if we as a populace are so petty, why shouldn't the government look to capitalize on that?

Foment, instigate, incite.......

 

[Chris Craig]

Damn! It is hard to believe but most of you guys are just friggin Communist. If someone has something, TAKE it! Makes you feel good!
I must admit, I never would have thought people would be in favor of the government making it legal for an employer to not hold up their end of a bargain
and screw the worker out his compensation. But you voted for that shit.

You voted for Trump. His supreme court pick helped dismantle unions, fucking employees, allowing employers to do what they want. His tax code will make the employers richer and keep the employees poor. His brand of "insurance" gives all the power to the insurance companies. Premiums will skyrocket before long. Some already have.

 

[Chris Craig]

 

[H.C.]

Foment, instigate, incite.......

Which is why I choose to not let the government control me with their brand of violence.
They're on many in my family, many people I know irl, and I've read many on this forum who are so easily controlled with violence.
Until that stops. The government will never change their ways.
Why change what works?

 

[Chris Craig]

Which is why I choose to not let the government control me with their brand of violence.
They're on many in my family, many people I know irl, and I've read many on this forum who are so easily controlled with violence.
Until that stops. The government will never change their ways.
Why change what works?

So, I'm violent?

 

[H.C.]

So, I'm violent?

If your answer is to fight senseless violence with additional violence.
Then you're controlled by violence.
The Government is very good at violence, and making people hate one another. Simply because then it's easy to predict what the populace wants.
One of my friends who believes she should be allowed to punch a person she deems a nazi in the face. Doesn't understand why I wouldn't punch one in the face.
I won't be controlled by violence. Nor will I give it a voice in the room.

 

[LeeRC]

"What was your job in pressing War on Russia the last time we came within a blink of going for broke?"

Speaking as one of the few non-liberals on this forum:

My view is that geopolitics trumps partisan politics (Pun intended - and then some).

Let's not act like Russia - especially Putin's gang - has forgiven the US for all its successes over Russia from the 1950s-now. If Russia had played things the other way (and they certainly still intend to btw), you'd see Bernie Sanders in charge and all the 'snowflake' conservatives shouting about election hacks and voter fraud and Jill Stein hanging out with Putin - while liberals pounce about how the FBI, NSA, and CIA are evil organizations bent on stopping democracy (as opposed to the convenient about face they just pulled off following the election) and how NATO is a waste of money that does nothing to keep "peace".

Of course, the geopolitical reality is that Russia wants the top spot and they'll do anything to get there, including the dismantling of systems (flawed as they may be) that keep American rule. Today, they assisted in electing Trump. Tomorrow, they'll assist in electing his counterpart - which it would seem that the next batch of candidates for the Democrats appear to be a bunch of useful idiots.

Now, I'm sure you'd agree that Europe is useless in all this. They'll sleep with anyone - Russian, American, Chinese - so long as they get to live in some semblance of the fantasy world they've constructed for themselves. Russia and China know this and will exploit it. Something like NATO is the only thing pumping lifeblood into the West (the EU certainly isn't). Taking the endless amount of heat and criticism is an acceptable compromise that must occur when you lead from the front.

This is that Game of Thrones shit and if the US doesn't want to be some lucky blip that lasted only a few hundred years, it better be prepared to shoot said enemies that venture into its territory, seeking to break it apart from within. America is the only country that can preserve "the West" and needs to stay in that role.

Thus, my view is a simple one. There is no need for slaughter and bloodshed but you should be prepared at all times. You can be fair and forgiving or you can be harsh and uncompromising, but don't give an inch to the Europeans and don't give an inch to the Russians. One of those, Trump has done well. The other, not so much.

 

[dviss1]

I wasn’t around but do we even wanna talk about how regan was as a president? I know some things

Yes. Yes we do.

Trump is a fucking treasonous MF who has a mouth full of Putin.

Gorbachev had a mouthful of Reagan.

That's what we did to Russians and Nazis.

Now we have a president who commits treason with Russians and has Nazi support.

 

[Chris Craig]

If your answer is to fight senseless violence with additional violence.
Then you're controlled by violence.
The Government is very good at violence, and making people hate one another. Simply because then it's easy to predict what the populace wants.
One of my friends who believes she should be allowed to punch a person she deems a nazi in the face. Doesn't understand why I wouldn't punch one in the face.
I won't be controlled by violence. Nor will I give it a voice in the room.

I do not believe I have intimdated or used physical force here in this forum. My words are not destructive. I seek a conversation with conservatives. Yes, I am a liberal. Yes, my words are often filled with a strength of emotion of which at times conservatives probably find unpleasant. I don't need our government to tell me how to think or act. I think for myself. I have principles and morals. I stick to them. That is not to say I don't keep an open mind. It is hard to have a onesided conversation.

Violence only begets violence. I don't care for violence unless it is completely neccessary. I don't fight senseless violence with violence, I question it. Some find this notion uncomfortable.

 

[Chris Craig]

I wasn’t around but do we even wanna talk about how regan was as a president? I know some things

Are you really comparing Trump to Reagan?

I don't think Reagan was a great president. He messed a lot of shit up, but no where near Trumps level. When it came to Russia he bitch slapped Gorbachav. He didn't bow to him and shove his nose up Russia's asshole. There is a difference between fixing relations and treating Russia with adoration like a you kid would his older brother.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If your answer is to fight senseless violence with additional violence.
Then you're controlled by violence.
The Government is very good at violence, and making people hate one another. Simply because then it's easy to predict what the populace wants.
One of my friends who believes she should be allowed to punch a person she deems a nazi in the face. Doesn't understand why I wouldn't punch one in the face.
I won't be controlled by violence. Nor will I give it a voice in the room.

This times a million.

 

[riverman]

I never would have thought people would be in favor of the government making it legal for an employer to not hold up their end of a bargain

bankruptcy laws have done that for ages....a tractor trailer company in the small town near where I grew up employed most of the non farmers in the town...they had a 20 year retirement program....after 18 years rather than pay retirement...they declared bankruptcy an changed the name of the factory and moved it to a town 50 miles up the road.....screwing all the workers that were about to retire....happens all the time....my mother got screwed out of retirement benefits when she reached the salary cap at her job and they laid her off and replaced her with a minimum wage 18 year old..a year before mom qualified for retirement benefits. .Trump screwed many workers for profit with bankruptcy laws....there are many corporate loopholes to throw the worker under the bus so the CEO can pass out bonuses to his cronies....hell a failed CEO can get 400 million just to leave a company they've screwed up....life ain't fair Marzy….the govt doesn't make companies go for money grabs ….greed does...you don't have to be a commie to suffer the wrath of greedy corporate practices that don't give a shit for the wage worker...it's why we have unions nowadays

 

[riverman]

If your answer is to fight senseless violence with additional violence.
Then you're controlled by violence.

consider the source....Alabama comes to mind

 

[MarAzul]

Healthcare should be some sort of compensation?

It was for me and about 20-/+million other retirees covered. Compensation for services rendered. That is until the Dems passed a bill that encouraged the Corporations to
stop providing it, or be heavily taxed for each person they covered. Even though it never really was implemented, the option to cease was made legal, eliminating any legal
recourse to enforce our collecting compensation due. Most of the Co. took advantage of this right up front, as soon as it became legal. Nothing to do with Bankruptcy.
Actually Bankruptcy had long been a ploy to enable detouring around retirement cost obligations. The Affordable Care Act made it unnecessary, sort of a, get off the hook for free gift card.

bankruptcy laws have done that for ages....a tractor trailer company in the small town near where I grew up employed most of the non farmers in the town...they had a 20 year retirement program....after 18 years rather than pay retirement...they declared bankruptcy an changed the name of the factory and moved it to a town 50 miles up the road.....screwing all the workers that were about to retire....happens all the time....my mother got screwed out of retirement benefits when she reached the salary cap at her job and they laid her off and replaced her with a minimum wage 18 year old..a year before mom qualified for retirement benefits. .Trump screwed many workers for profit with bankruptcy laws....there are many corporate loopholes to throw the worker under the bus so the CEO can pass out bonuses to his cronies....hell a failed CEO can get 400 million just to leave a company they've screwed up....life ain't fair Marzy….the govt doesn't make companies go for money grabs ….greed does...you don't have to be a commie to suffer the wrath of greedy corporate practices that don't give a shit for the wage worker...it's why we have unions nowadays

See above river.

 

[MarAzul]

I don't think Reagan was a great president. He messed a lot of shit up, but no where near Trumps level.

I would put them as the best in my life time. Perhaps even farther back. Who is your top pick?

 

[Chris Craig]

I would put them as the best in my life time. Perhaps even farther back. Who is your top pick?

Franklin Roosevelt

 

[MarAzul]

Franklin Roosevelt

Ah! the progressive darling of the last century.
There are so many things wrong with that guy but I don't want to type that much.
Just a few.

Attempted more actions found to be unconstitutional than any other President.

Interned more Americans that any other President. No contest.

Ceded Eastern Europe to the Russians for nothing (Yalta). Chiefly the cause of the next 50 years of cold war.

I could go on, but this is enough hold first place, I hope forever.