Quick's article on Dame (and I believe why we will win)

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Denny can you PLEASE add a facepalm emoticon? I'm serious as a heart attack about this one.
 
MarAzul said:
Aw come on! You can do better than that! Flop that race card down, you have done it before.
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Saying someone is playing a card is playing a card in itself. You've bee a Dame hater from the beginning... Bringing up BULLSHIT stats like Assists to missed shots... An unheard of stat that nobody except YOU uses to judge PG play...
 
If Dame was White Marzy wouldn't be saying shit....

#yesisaidit
 
Ha! Well it was common when I played. I have explained it enough, so I guess you don't like it. I can see why.
 
dviss1 said:
Saying someone is playing a card is playing a card in itself. You've bee a Dame hater from the beginning... Bringing up BULLSHIT stats like Assists to missed shots... An unheard of stat that nobody except YOU uses to judge PG play...
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dviss1 said:
If Dame was White Marzy wouldn't be saying shit....

#yesisaidit
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Ha! There it is! Right at the ready!
 
Saying someone is playing the race card simply deflects from the truth. It's a card in itself that YOU sir have at the ready...
 
This reminds me off when I was about the first to talk about my dislike of McMillan as a coach. Hater and Racist were used then too.
 
dviss1 said:
Jesus....
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If you could provide some examples of PGs who had average court vision and play-making abilities when they entered the NBA, and then developed those skills afterwards that might be more likely to change my opinion rather than just saying "Jesus...". Perhaps it's just another example of NBA myth-making, but court vision and play-making are largely regarded as things you either have or you don't, not something that can be taught. I'm very open to debunking NBA myths, but you've gotta provide some evidence first.
 
blue9 said:
If you could provide some examples of PGs who had average court vision and play-making abilities when they entered the NBA, and then developed those skills afterwards that might be more likely to change my opinion rather than just saying "Jesus...". Perhaps it's just another example of NBA myth-making, but court vision and play-making are largely regarded as things you either have or you don't, not something that can be taught. I'm very open to debunking NBA myths, but you've gotta provide some evidence first.
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Terry Porter played shooting guard in college and averaged 3.8 assists.
 
blue9 said:
If you could provide some examples of PGs who had average court vision and play-making abilities when they entered the NBA, and then developed those skills afterwards that might be more likely to change my opinion rather than just saying "Jesus...". Perhaps it's just another example of NBA myth-making, but court vision and play-making are largely regarded as things you either have or you don't, not something that can be taught. I'm very open to debunking NBA myths, but you've gotta provide some evidence first.
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No YOU need to provide examples. The burden of proof is on you not me....
 
blue9 said:
If you could provide some examples of PGs who had average court vision and play-making abilities when they entered the NBA, and then developed those skills afterwards that might be more likely to change my opinion rather than just saying "Jesus...". Perhaps it's just another example of NBA myth-making, but court vision and play-making are largely regarded as things you either have or you don't, not something that can be taught. I'm very open to debunking NBA myths, but you've gotta provide some evidence first.
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Jennings and Teague come to mind
 
dviss1 said:
You don't need to tell. He's simply telling forum members like you that you have no reason for all of this Dame hate you all are throwing. Yes Marzy you are one of the Dame haters.

Newsflash, he isn't and never will be Steve Nash....
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I know you don't think Lillard should be Nash dviss so this isn't @ you. I just don't want to look up MarAzul's and others previous posts.

Another reason why Lillard isn't leading the league in assists or to some seems to have below average, or average play making abilities.... could revolve around the Blazers offensive scheme.
It's another way of thinking about it.
Lillard doesn't have the ball in his hands all the time like CP3, and Lillard isn't a ball hog stat gobbler like Westbrick. He certainly doesn't have his hands on the ball as often as Nash did...
Lillard plays within a system, that is designed around another player.

Rondo's assist rate went down when he went to the Mavs. Did he lose his play making ability? No. The ball isn't in his hands as much..
Which is prolly the best statement ever.. Being that Dallas runs a lot of the same stuff the Blazers do.

Point is Lillard has to at the very least give up half of the Blazers possessions for Aldridge because well.. It's Aldridge's team and the Blazers are better with Aldridge than without due to the offense being designed around him.
It doesn't matter if you like the offensive system or not. It's designed around Aldridge.
Stotts was brought in to maximize Aldridge, not improve Lillard's play making and turn him into the next 20/10assist pg.
 
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blue9 said:
If you could provide some examples of PGs who had average court vision and play-making abilities when they entered the NBA, and then developed those skills afterwards that might be more likely to change my opinion rather than just saying "Jesus...". Perhaps it's just another example of NBA myth-making, but court vision and play-making are largely regarded as things you either have or you don't, not something that can be taught. I'm very open to debunking NBA myths, but you've gotta provide some evidence first.
Click to expand...
Um ...I already did. A lot of those guys average around 8-10 assists a game now

http://www.sportstwo.com/posts/3601451/
 
@blue9, @Boise Blazer provided Parker, Conley and Curry from his link. All averaged less assists per game in their third year than Dame but now average higher assist numbers.
 
I love Dame. Wish he wasn't so Dame Streaky though. Should be an interesting series.
 
dviss1 said:
Saying someone is playing the race card simply deflects from the truth. It's a card in itself that YOU sir have at the ready...
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But he is the President of the LaMarcus Aldridge fan club...:dunno:
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Terry Porter
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Terry came into the league distributing the ball very well. His first year as a starter (his second season) he had an A/M of 1.81 for the season.
Similar for the next four seasons.

Then he changed, started shooting a whole lot more although his scoring average only went up about a point. His assist rate drop 2 to 3 a game
and his A/M fell to .78. Then after he left Portland he reverted back to the original TP with super A/M, like 96-97 he had a 1.45 for the season.
His career average ended up being 1.13.
 
You mean to tell me I got to debate the A/M Stat here also?
I really thought this place was ahead of that.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
@blue9, @Boise Blazer provided Parker, Conley and Curry from his link. All averaged less assists per game in their third year than Dame but now average higher assist numbers.
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I don't recall what Conley was like coming into the NBA, but regardless of APG averages it looked to me like both Parker and Curry had good court vision and play-making abilities as rookies. Of course they're going to improve over time, but it's not like they didn't have that innate ability already.
Also, I don't know that I would say Conley has exceptional court vision currently - though I'll definitely be more familiar with him over the next week.
What I'm looking at can't really be measured in stats. Lillard's APG average is fine for a starting PG, but that doesn't change the fact that he's merely average when it comes to his court vision. And then we have guys like Walt Frazier (or whatever his name is) or Kendall Marshall who are borderline NBA players, but clearly have superior court vision and play-making abilities.
What I'm getting at is that if you were to go down the list of all the great PGs, by and large they had the innate skills prior to entering the NBA. Here's a list: http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/04/the-25-greatest-point-guards-in-nba-history/dennis-johnson
Did any of those guys not possess great court vision before they came to the NBA, and then develop that skill after they started their pro career? I'm honestly asking. I really don't see what's so controversial about saying that Dame's play-making ability is average, and questioning the idea that he can develop court vision at this point in his career. I'm not saying he can't better, just that he doesn't have the innate ability to be great as a set-up guy. Good, sure, but probably not going to be great when it comes to creating easy offense.
 
blue9 said:
I don't recall what Conley was like coming into the NBA, but regardless of APG averages it looked to me like both Parker and Curry had good court vision and play-making abilities as rookies. Of course they're going to improve over time, but it's not like they didn't have that innate ability already.
Also, I don't know that I would say Conley has exceptional court vision currently - though I'll definitely be more familiar with him over the next week.
What I'm looking at can't really be measured in stats. Lillard's APG average is fine for a starting PG, but that doesn't change the fact that he's merely average when it comes to his court vision. And then we have guys like Walt Frazier (or whatever his name is) or Kendall Marshall who are borderline NBA players, but clearly have superior court vision and play-making abilities.
What I'm getting at is that if you were to go down the list of all the great PGs, by and large they had the innate skills prior to entering the NBA. Here's a list: http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/04/the-25-greatest-point-guards-in-nba-history/dennis-johnson
Did any of those guys not possess great court vision before they came to the NBA, and then develop that skill after they started their pro career? I'm honestly asking. I really don't see what's so controversial about saying that Dame's play-making ability is average, and questioning the idea that he can develop court vision at this point in his career. I'm not saying he can't better, just that he doesn't have the innate ability to be great as a set-up guy. Good, sure, but probably not going to be great when it comes to creating easy offense.
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I get where you are coming from, but I also believe there are other factors involved. The NBA game was much different in the 80's and early 90's. There were way more assists to be had because it was mainly a run and gun type offense.

Also, when your offense is predicated around a "pass to an open man" type offense like Stotts has implemented, there are way more "hockey assists" in the game. Our team is one of the top assist teams in the NBA. So the team concept is not individual, but as an entire unit.
 
magnifier661 said:
I get where you are coming from, but I also believe there are other factors involved. The NBA game was much different in the 80's and early 90's. There were way more assists to be had because it was mainly a run and gun type offense.

Also, when your offense is predicated around a "pass to an open man" type offense like Stotts has implemented, there are way more "hockey assists" in the game. Our team is one of the top assist teams in the NBA. So the team concept is not individual, but as an entire unit.
Click to expand...
I get that - and again, I'm not concerned with APG averages. But if you can't see that Dame doesn't have the court vision of CP3, Curry, Dragic, Frazier (!), etc, then I don't know what to say. (And it does seem like you agree, so I'm not saying you don't see the difference.) Some PGs see plays and passing lanes develop ahead of time and are able to make the pass for the easy bucket - for the most part Dame is not that type of PG and even if he improves in that area I except it to be incremental rather than monumental.
None of this is to say that Dame is a bad PG - just that he's probably never going to be the type of PG that creates lots of easy scoring opportunities. He'll be great because of his drive and determination, not because of innate abilities.
 
magnifier661 said:
I get where you are coming from, but I also believe there are other factors involved. The NBA game was much different in the 80's and early 90's. There were way more assists to be had because it was mainly a run and gun type offense.

Also, when your offense is predicated around a "pass to an open man" type offense like Stotts has implemented, there are way more "hockey assists" in the game. Our team is one of the top assist teams in the NBA. So the team concept is not individual, but as an entire unit.
Click to expand...

Let's look at three western PGs today, Paul, Curry, Lillard.

Here is the way the A/M worked out for those guys for the season. Use Porter for a comparison for his good years (1.81=Super) and his career avg. (1.13= good one of PTL best)

Paul 1.39 Real good now and historically

Curry .89 Not so good but Damn! You have to give that guy the green light shooting the three ball @ .443. and setting a league record.

Lillard .66 Really poor now and Historically. That while taking more shots than either of the other two PGs being compared. If lillard were near TPs 1.13 career average
I don't think teams would know how to defend him and Portland might have had 60 wins.
 
MarAzul said:
Terry came into the league distributing the ball very well. His first year as a starter (his second season) he had an A/M of 1.81 for the season.
Similar for the next four seasons.

Then he changed, started shooting a whole lot more although his scoring average only went up about a point. His assist rate drop 2 to 3 a game
and his A/M fell to .78. Then after he left Portland he reverted back to the original TP with super A/M, like 96-97 he had a 1.45 for the season.
His career average ended up being 1.13.
Click to expand...

Arbitrary bullshit stat....
 
blue9 said:
I get that - and again, I'm not concerned with APG averages. But if you can't see that Dame doesn't have the court vision of CP3, Curry, Dragic, Frazier (!), etc, then I don't know what to say. (And it does seem like you agree, so I'm not saying you don't see the difference.) Some PGs see plays and passing lanes develop ahead of time and are able to make the pass for the easy bucket - for the most part Dame is not that type of PG and even if he improves in that area I except it to be incremental rather than monumental.
None of this is to say that Dame is a bad PG - just that he's probably never going to be the type of PG that creates lots of easy scoring opportunities. He'll be great because of his drive and determination, not because of innate abilities.
Click to expand...
Well of course Dame doesn't have the court vision and awareness of Stockton, magic, Thomas and CP3. It doesn't mean that he won't solidify his place in greatness with leadership, scoring and desire to be the best
 
MarAzul said:
Let's look at three western PGs today, Paul, Curry, Lillard.

Here is the way the A/M worked out for those guys for the season. Use Porter for a comparison for his good years (1.81=Super) and his career avg. (1.13= good one of PTL best)

Paul 1.39 Real good now and historically

Curry .89 Not so good but Damn! You have to give that guy the green light shooting the three ball @ .443. and setting a league record.

Lillard .66 Really poor now and Historically. That while taking more shots than either of the other two PGs being compared. If lillard were near TPs 1.13 career average
I don't think teams would know how to defend him and Portland might have had 60 wins.
Click to expand...
I don't buy into cherry picked stats without taking into account of all stats associated with distributing the ball.
 
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