Ramon Sessions a better defender then Hinrich.

[Idog1976]

Sessions and Hinrich have identical DRtg but Sessions has a higher defensive win share.

In fact Sessions is as good or better per 36 then Captain Kirk in nearly every category but 3pt% and blocks.

Admittedly 3pt% is a critical stat on this team but one I feel that can be learned. The court vision is there, the penetration is there apparently the defense is there and he is 22. Sessions/Bayless/Rudy/Roy looks like our backcourt locked up for a decade. As long as Rudy and Bayless stay happy and you rest Roy as much as possible

Suprisingly, Kurt Thomas is the best defender of back up PF's I see as potentially available and I think he is very obtainable and wouldn't mind coming off the bench. He would also be traded to Portland in a Sign and Trade with Sessions.

Outlaw, Blake, Frye, Webster and the rights to any of our picks or future picks for Thomas and Sessions. You give Sessions about 8 per or there abouts. He is signed for that and traded to Portland for the aforementioned package.


Finally, you sign the best defensive SF available in free agency or via reasonable trade scenarios Ron Artest.

Ron-Ron is good for 1.5 steals and shoots .399 from 3pt land the best of Artest, Turkoglu, Prince and J. Howard.


Perhaps the following lineup is the answer:

PG Sessions/Bayless
SG Roy/Rudy
SF Artest/Batum
PF LMA/Kurt Thomas or Antonio McDyess
C Oden/Przybilla


You get ridiculous defense in both units but also plenty of firepower in both units. You of course might not run them as two distinct units but add defense or offense as needed to either lineup to exploit matchups.

I think that team is going to fucking terrify most teams

 

[Minstrel]

Sessions, Artest and Thomas would be a masterful off-season, I must admit.

Thomas is somewhat underrated. He has been a valuable player and would be an ideal backup for Portland. Very good defender, solid rebounder, moderately efficient when he does take shots...and has the veteran savvy that some have been pining for.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm not a huge fan of basketball-reference's more "coarse" statistics (ortg and drtg), but if you look at the advanced metrics that 82games.com posts it paints a far different picture of the two players.

Namely floor-time stats and PER differential (which is further broken down by the percentage of time that each player plays at a particular position, eg. Hinrich played a lot of 2 guard this past year for instance).

Hinrich's 82games.com stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI3.HTM
floor time stats:
Net points: +203
offense: 105.2
defense: 97.9
Win % 57.1 (higher than the actual win % of the overall team which is key)

Production by position:
PG: offense: 103.7 Defense: 93.5 win% 63%
SG: offense: 106.3 Defense: 101.5 win% 60%

PG: 15% PER generated 15.2, PER allowed: 14.8
SG: 18% PER generated 15.7 PER allowed: 16.0

Sessions' 82games.com stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIL3.HTM
Net points: -26
offense: 101.2
defense: 101.8
Win%: 48% (pretty close to the team's actual win%)

Production by position:
PG: 41% offense: 102.0 defense: 102.3 win% 45%
SG: 13% offense: 98.9 defense: 100.2 win% 44%

PG: PER generated 20.6 PER allowed: 14.1
SG: PER generated 16.8 PER allowed: 14.3

When I look at those numbers it tells me a couple of things that I can confirm with the naked eye when I've watched both players (and for the record just let me say I'm a fan of both) Sessions is a much quicker guard than Hinrich and is a purer point, but his team defense is pretty suspect, Hinrich on the other hand isn't what I would call lock-down as a man defender, but he's very smart and knows how to funnel a player into help defense and has enough strength and versatility to cover multiple positions on the perimeter. Right now and probably for the next couple of years I think Hinrich is more likely to be the better team player in terms of adding wins and fitting in with little adjustment, and Sessions probably has a very bright future ahead of him as a pure point guard.

In either case I'd be happy to add either player as I think they would both be a pretty sizeable upgrade over Blake, but just because of Hinrich's defense and ability to play both the one and the two I think there's a good to very good chance he's a better fit alongside Brandon Roy than Sessions would be. Secondly, now that Jefferson has been moved to the Spurs it looks like Milwaukee is probably going to be able to retain both Charlie V and Ramon Sessions if they want them, and having extended the qualifying offer it looks like they are waiting to see if a team is going to offer him a salary they want to match -- I think Ramon just got a lot harder to attain.

 

[Webster's Dictionary]

Please say no to Ron Ron. He almost cost Houston a couple home games against us, he has attitude problems and is not a team player. He played terribly when he was behind Yao and McGrady in the pecking order, and only came alive when he was a 2nd/1st outside option. Granted he greatly improved his 3 pt shooting, and he is a great, physical defender, but I have visions of being stuck with a big old contract and a aging star who wears out his welcome and is no longer wanted by other teams. It's possible it would turn out well, but there is too high of a risk associated with Artest.

 

[BlazerFanForLife]

I agree say no to Ron, if people here are pulling their hair out over Travis's shot selection they havent seen Artest play. He disrupts any offence once he touches the ball. Black hole Ron is what he's called, the baddest lone slinger around

 

[Sedatedfork]

I would really like Battier on this team. Aint gonna happen though unless KP glamours Houston with his vampire stare.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Agreed: Battier - hell yes! Artest - hell no!

 

[MrJayremmie]

Would love Sessions/Battier.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not a huge fan of basketball-reference's more "coarse" statistics (ortg and drtg), but if you look at the advanced metrics that 82games.com posts it paints a far different picture of the two players.

Namely floor-time stats and PER differential (which is further broken down by the percentage of time that each player plays at a particular position, eg. Hinrich played a lot of 2 guard this past year for instance).

Hinrich's 82games.com stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI3.HTM
floor time stats:
Net points: +203
offense: 105.2
defense: 97.9
Win % 57.1 (higher than the actual win % of the overall team which is key)

Production by position:
PG: offense: 103.7 Defense: 93.5 win% 63%
SG: offense: 106.3 Defense: 101.5 win% 60%

PG: 15% PER generated 15.2, PER allowed: 14.8
SG: 18% PER generated 15.7 PER allowed: 16.0

Sessions' 82games.com stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIL3.HTM
Net points: -26
offense: 101.2
defense: 101.8
Win%: 48% (pretty close to the team's actual win%)

Production by position:
PG: 41% offense: 102.0 defense: 102.3 win% 45%
SG: 13% offense: 98.9 defense: 100.2 win% 44%

PG: PER generated 20.6 PER allowed: 14.1
SG: PER generated 16.8 PER allowed: 14.3

When I look at those numbers it tells me a couple of things that I can confirm with the naked eye when I've watched both players (and for the record just let me say I'm a fan of both) Sessions is a much quicker guard than Hinrich and is a purer point, but his team defense is pretty suspect, Hinrich on the other hand isn't what I would call lock-down as a man defender, but he's very smart and knows how to funnel a player into help defense and has enough strength and versatility to cover multiple positions on the perimeter. Right now and probably for the next couple of years I think Hinrich is more likely to be the better team player in terms of adding wins and fitting in with little adjustment, and Sessions probably has a very bright future ahead of him as a pure point guard.

In either case I'd be happy to add either player as I think they would both be a pretty sizeable upgrade over Blake, but just because of Hinrich's defense and ability to play both the one and the two I think there's a good to very good chance he's a better fit alongside Brandon Roy than Sessions would be. Secondly, now that Jefferson has been moved to the Spurs it looks like Milwaukee is probably going to be able to retain both Charlie V and Ramon Sessions if they want them, and having extended the qualifying offer it looks like they are waiting to see if a team is going to offer him a salary they want to match -- I think Ramon just got a lot harder to attain.

Nice analysis, but there's a bit more to it. Hinrich played against other teams' 2nd units.

 

[SteelBlaze1]

I agree say no to Ron, if people here are pulling their hair out over Travis's shot selection they havent seen Artest play. He disrupts any offence once he touches the ball. Black hole Ron is what he's called, the baddest lone slinger around

I agree...I have said many times to anyone that mentions Artest on our team...please NO!

 

[Idog1976]

A couple of points:

Firstly I see Sessions as insurance in case Bayless doesn't pan out and vice-versa. In a Hinrich scenario you are either counting on Bayless as the PG in 2 years or you are stuck with a shooting guard in a PG's body (the common critique of Bayless and one I don't agree with but it could be true) and a by then creaky veteran. With Sessions you have a guy who fits our window and has the physical tools to slow down the faster guards in the league. Hinrich may be the better team defender but that is something that comes with experience. I won't be heartbroken if we get Hinrich as our starting PG but I will know that KP is 100% convinced that Bayless is unequivocally the answer long term at the PG.

As far as Artest goes I think you have to consider him at the 3 for his defensive prowess. I'm not sure who else is available at the 3 who can get the job done. You could of course rely Batum/Webster which wouldn't be horrid but I think leaves us a little thin at the 3. Unless you prefer the following lineup:

PG Sessions/Bayless
SG Rudy/Roy/Bayless
SF Roy/Batum
PF LMA/Kurt Thomas
C Oden/Przybilla

Supposedly Roy's stats as a SF are better then his stats as a SG.

 

[Nikolokolus]

A couple of points:

Firstly I see Sessions as insurance in case Bayless doesn't pan out and vice-versa. In a Hinrich scenario you are either counting on Bayless as the PG in 2 years or you are stuck with a shooting guard in a PG's body (the common critique of Bayless and one I don't agree with but it could be true) and a by then creaky veteran. With Sessions you have a guy who fits our window and has the physical tools to slow down the faster guards in the league. Hinrich may be the better team defender but that is something that comes with experience. I won't be heartbroken if we get Hinrich as our starting PG but I will know that KP is 100% convinced that Bayless is unequivocally the answer long term at the PG.

Hmmm ... I'm not going to dog Sessions because I think he would be a pretty good get and I do recognize the concerns about Bayless developing into the future starting point guard, but if you sign Sessions it won't be for his defense. I would call him an "adequate" man-to-man defender and a below average team defender; sure those skills can be taught to a certain extent, but a lot of it is mindset and there's no guarantee that will ever come around -- there's probably a reason Scott Skiles brought him off the bench most of the season, and Nate is likely to be just as demanding and hard on him if he's not bringing it defensively.

Talent-wise I think Sessions has Andre Miller potential and could end up being a much better point guard than Kirk Hinrich is currently (or ever will be), but if we're talking about surrounding Roy with good perimeter defenders at the 1 and the 3 to help cover for his so-so production at the defensive end of the court and if you want veteran players who Nate is going to be comfortable with who will have a better chance of stepping in right away with a minimal amount of disruption, I think Hinrich, Kidd or even Miller might be a better bet; not only because all three players are imminently more available (Don't kid yourself, Milwaukee is going match market value offers for Sessions) but there's going to be less rejiggering of all the other players on the roster. In a vacuum I like Sessions a lot, in the context of playing for this particular incarnation of the Blazers I'm starting to wonder if adding him would work as well as we hope.

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

I agree say no to Ron, if people here are pulling their hair out over Travis's shot selection they havent seen Artest play. He disrupts any offence once he touches the ball. Black hole Ron is what he's called, the baddest lone slinger around

Don't trust a gut who spells offense 'offence'.

 

[number 10]

Don't trust a gut who spells offense 'offence'.

Don't trust a gut who makes a mistake while correcting someone else's spelling!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Don't trust a gut who makes a mistake while correcting someone else's spelling!

Maybe he was talking about trusting his actual gut?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Nice analysis, but there's a bit more to it. Hinrich played against other teams' 2nd units.

That's definitely a caveat I hadn't considered when posting the two player's stats, but the funny thing is that Sessions also backed up Ridnour for a large chunk of the season too, so his numbers might be similarly skewed. In any case when I talk about the "eye test" for both players I'm talking about the whole of Kirk's career and both of Session's years in the league.

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

Don't trust a gut who makes a mistake while correcting someone else's spelling!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!1

I really meant his gut... lol