Forum Game Rank the current top five PG’s

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Top six in case Harden is not a PG.
1. Harden
2. Curry
3. Dame
4. Kyrie
5. CP3
6. Kyle Lowry (better defender than top 4).
 
The elite guys on a league of their own are Steph and Dame. Harden too if you think he's a pg.

Then there is a big drop before any of the other guys
 
I don't get why some of you and ESPN list Harden @ PG. If he is a PG, what does that make Chris Paul?

1. Steph
2. Dame
3. Kyrie
4. Kemba -- his regular season stats are nearly exactly like Dame's.
5. Westbrook
 
I don't consider Harden a point guard. If he's a point guard, Durant's a point guard, Brandon Roy was a point guard, LeBron's a point guard, Giannis is a point guard ... everyone's a point guard. Chris Paul's the point guard for the Rockets. Harden and Gordon kind of interchange at the 2 and 3.

Bringing the ball up court some of the time or being the ball-dominant iso player doesn't make a guy a point guard.
 
KingSpeed said:
We need to root for Celtics and Sixers. We get HCA over them in Finals.
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If we're gonna beat Warriors/Rockets, we can beat Bucks too.

I like Giannis too much, and hate Celtics to cheer for them.
 
yuyuza1 said:
I don't get why some of you and ESPN list Harden @ PG. If he is a PG, what does that make Chris Paul?
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Paul is a point guard too. D'Antoni has said a number of times since he became Houston's coach that Harden was his point guard. If the Blazers had traded for Paul while keeping Lillard, would that have meant Lillard stopped being a point guard? Harden definitely plays like a point guard in D'Antoni's system, IMO.
 
Minstrel said:
Paul is a point guard too. D'Antoni has said a number of times since he became Houston's coach that Harden was his point guard. If the Blazers had traded for Paul while keeping Lillard, would that have meant Lillard stopped being a point guard? Harden definitely plays like a point guard in D'Antoni's system, IMO.
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I think, as a fan, I contribute to the Blazers success so I should be considered a point guard as well.
 
Minstrel said:
Paul is a point guard too. D'Antoni has said a number of times since he became Houston's coach that Harden was his point guard. If the Blazers had traded for Paul while keeping Lillard, would that have meant Lillard stopped being a point guard? Harden definitely plays like a point guard in D'Antoni's system, IMO.
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We need to redefine positions then if a team can have two point guards.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I think, as a fan, I contribute to the Blazers success so I should be considered a point guard as well.
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I didn't say anything about "contributing to success." I said that I think Harden definitely plays like a point guard for Houston, since D'Antoni took over.
 
yuyuza1 said:
We need to redefine positions then if a team can have two point guards.
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So you do think that if Paul joined the Blazers, Lillard would cease to be a point guard?
 
Minstrel said:
I didn't say anything about "contributing to success." I said that I think Harden definitely plays like a point guard for Houston, since D'Antoni took over.
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I didn't say that you said that I said that you said that I said that you said........ anything about contributing to success.
 
yuyuza1 said:
I think that's a false equivalence. Harden has been considered a SG his whole career. Dame hasn't. We wouldn't ever have tried to trade for Paul. Houston did.
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Harden has been considered a point guard, including by his own coach, since D'Antoni took over. And I'd hope that the Blazers would have traded for Paul if they could have gotten him relatively cheaply, because he's really talented. You can make it work with two point guards, as Houston has. In some sense, you're getting way too focused on the term "point guard," and viewing it as a singular thing. Harden has been and still is the main ball-handler and play-maker for his team. He's tasked with the majority of the breaking down of defenses and distributing to teammates. That's what a point guard does. In this era, point guards also are often top scorers for their teams too (not just Harden, but Curry, Lillard, Wall, Irving, etc) so the fact that Harden scores a ton doesn't really change anything. As D'Antoni says, he's been using Harden like a super-charged Steve Nash.
 
Minstrel said:
Harden has been considered a point guard, including by his own coach, since D'Antoni took over. And I'd hope that the Blazers would have traded for Paul if they could have gotten him relatively cheaply, because he's really talented. You can make it work with two point guards, as Houston has. In some sense, you're getting way too focused on the term "point guard," and viewing it as a singular thing. Harden has been and still is the main ball-handler and play-maker for his team. He's tasked with the majority of the breaking down of defenses and distributing to teammates. That's what a point guard does. In this era, point guards also are often top scorers for their teams too (not just Harden, but Curry, Lillard, Wall, Irving, etc) so the fact that Harden scores a ton doesn't really change anything. As D'Antoni says, he's been using Harden like a super-charged Steve Nash.
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Well, if that's the case..... Qyntel Woods is the greatest point guard in Blazers history!
 
Minstrel said:
Harden has been considered a point guard, including by his own coach, since D'Antoni took over. And I'd hope that the Blazers would have traded for Paul if they could have gotten him relatively cheaply, because he's really talented. You can make it work with two point guards, as Houston has. In some sense, you're getting way too focused on the term "point guard," and viewing it as a singular thing. Harden has been and still is the main ball-handler and play-maker for his team. He's tasked with the majority of the breaking down of defenses and distributing to teammates. That's what a point guard does. In this era, point guards also are often top scorers for their teams too (not just Harden, but Curry, Lillard, Wall, Irving, etc) so the fact that Harden scores a ton doesn't really change anything. As D'Antoni says, he's been using Harden like a super-charged Steve Nash.
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Yes, D'Antoni had that one interview where he called Harden a PG. In 2016-17, I agree with you even if he started Beverley next to him.

But Harden has been the primary SG since they got CP. Lineup data shows as much.
 
Outside of 16-17, Harden has been a SG for the majority of his career and it isn't close.

Here's what bball ref says:

upload_2019-4-26_14-34-28.png


In the playoffs:
upload_2019-4-26_14-35-15.png
 
yuyuza1 said:
Yes, D'Antoni had that one interview where he called Harden a PG. In 2016-17, I agree with you even if he started Beverley next to him.

But Harden has been the primary SG since they got CP. Lineup data shows as much.
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Lineup data doesn't matter. What matters is the actual role he plays in their offense, and his role is the same one Lillard plays for the Blazers--main ball-handler, main distributor, main decision-maker for the offense. Paul provides secondary play-making and takes over those roles when he's on the floor without Harden.
 
Minstrel said:
Lineup data doesn't matter. What matters is the actual role he plays in their offense, and his role is the same one Lillard plays for the Blazers--main ball-handler, main distributor, main decision-maker for the offense. Paul provides secondary play-making and takes over those roles when he's on the floor without Harden.
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So would you rank Pippen as one of the top point guards of all time?
 
If you look at the box scores on ESPN it shows both CP3 and Harden as PG's so I get the argument. However, fuck Harden. Lillard is better than Harden and it isn't close.
 
Minstrel said:
Lineup data doesn't matter. What matters is the actual role he plays in their offense, and his role is the same one Lillard plays for the Blazers--main ball-handler, main distributor, main decision-maker for the offense. Paul provides secondary play-making and takes over those roles when he's on the floor without Harden.
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Do you consider Lebron/Giannis/Griffin/Mitchell/Lou Williams/Beal/Booker to be point guards?As I said earlier, if we are going with this, then we need to redefine the position.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but this is a serious pet peeve of mine and without any actual games to focus on, I'm gonna keep wailing on this horse. :)
 
Minstrel said:
main ball-handler, main distributor, main decision-maker for the offense.
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Side note - these roles are not mutually exclusive with point guard. The OP asked for top 5 point guards. Not top 5 distributors/playmakers.
 
Natebishop3 said:
So would you rank Pippen as one of the top point guards of all time?
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I've often said that Pippen played a very point guard role, but I wouldn't say he was the clear lead ball-handler and distributor during his career. During his prime in Chicago, they played the triangle offense which, uh, distributed (no pun intended) the play-making across multiple players (much the way, though in a different way, that the current Warriors' offense distributes the play-making). And in Portland, unfortunately, Stoudamire spent a lot of time handling the ball and distributing.

Harden is essentially always the guy in control of the ball and the offense and he runs a massive Assist Rate because he's the guy who distributes the ball.

Side note - these roles are not mutually exclusive with point guard. The OP asked for top 5 point guards. Not top 5 distributors/playmakers.
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To me, the lead guard who handles the distribution and play-making for the offense is the point guard.

IMO, the only other option is to define positions based on who they defend, but that gets dicey when guys defend different positions often or play in switching defenses. Klay Thompson often defends point guards, but I wouldn't say that makes him the Warriors' point guard.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Do you consider Lebron/Giannis/Griffin/Mitchell/Lou Williams/Beal/Booker to be point guards?As I said earlier, if we are going with this, then we need to redefine the position.
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In the cases of players like James, Antetokounmpo, Draymond Green, etc, they don't dominate the play-making the way Harden does. They are all good examples of guys who incorporate some "point" duties into their games, but that's what Harden does all game, every game. As the guard who's controlling the offense, carrying the burden of distribution and decision, I don't see how he can be classified as anything but his team's point guard. As I said, he plays the same role in Houston as Lillard does in Portland. Antetokounmpo, Green, Griffin, etc, do not.
 
Minstrel said:
IMO, the only other option is to define positions based on who they defend, but that gets dicey when guys defend different positions often or play in switching defenses. Klay Thompson often defends point guards, but I wouldn't say that makes him the Warriors' point guard.
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How about defining their positions by considering who else they can play with without taking a massive step back on defense or offense?

Can Dame play with another 6' guard in the backcourt with him? No. Then, Dame can't be anything more than a "point" guard. Can Harden? Yes. And he has been for every year in his career. So he cannot by definition be the de facto point guard.

There's a reason why MJ is considered not only the GOAT, but the greatest SG of all time. Same as Kobe/Wade/et al. Guess they're PGs too. We need to start re-writing history.
 
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