Forum Game Rank the current top five PG’s

[Minstrel]

How about defining their positions by considering who else they can play with without taking a massive step back on defense or offense?

Can Dame play with another 6' guard in the backcourt with him? No. Then, Dame can't be anything more than a "point" guard. Can Harden? Yes. And he has been for every year in his career. So he cannot by definition be the de facto point guard.

Defining players by size rather than role makes absolutely no sense, IMO. By your definition, if Damon Stoudamire and James Harden played together, Stoudamire would "have to be" the point guard because he's smaller, even though Harden is a far, far, far better point guard. If a point guard is not the guard that takes on the role of lead ball-handler, distributor and decision-maker, then yeah, position designations don't mean anything.

And, honestly, position designations mean less and less these days. Curry is a "point guard," but the Warriors' system decentralizes the passing and play-making, empowering power forwad Draymond Green and swingman Andre Iguodala to be important play-makers, or even centers like Andrew Bogut. But as far as I'm concerned, if people want to ask about point guards, Harden's role falls squarely within it.

 

[Natebishop3]

So maybe rank players by height!

 

[PCmor7]

My best point guards of the last 30 years

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Sabas
4. Pippen
5. Giannis

Oh, wait, I forgot to put Jordan in there somewhere.

 

[PCmor7]

Harden has been considered a point guard, including by his own coach, since D'Antoni took over.

I covered a state-championship girls basketball team once. Small school. Best player was 6 feet tall. Good enough ballhandler and shooter that they could isolate her. She never guarded perimeter players though. She seldom was guarded by perimeter players.

She was seeking a DI scholarship. In the program, they listed her as a guard. When I called her a forward or a swing player, her dad called me in the office to tell me in no uncertain terms that his daughter was a guard. He said she was a guard because in her HS team's program she was a guard. I said it didn't matter what they called her, she played forward. She still posted up a lot on offense. She played at least half the time in the paint, especially on defense.

She got her DI scholly. She played the 3 and the 4 there. Her college listed her as a forward.

Another local girl was seeking a DI offer. She definitely was a point guard. She was shorter than me. I listed her height as 2 inches shorter than me. Her dad came to me and said I listed her height wrong, that she was my height. I said she can't be my height, I can see over her head when we are standing face to face. He insisted she was my height. Her dad's friend was a coach. He came to me and insisted she was my height. I asked him the same thing: How can she be my height if I am taller than her.

She got her DI scholarship despite my listing of her height. Turned out how she played was more important.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I covered a state-championship girls basketball team once. Small school. Best player was 6 feet tall. Good enough ballhandler and shooter that they could isolate her. She never guarded perimeter players though. She seldom was guarded by perimeter players.

She was seeking a DI scholarship. In the program, they listed her as a guard. When I called her a forward or a swing player, her dad called me in the office to tell me in no uncertain terms that his daughter was a guard. He said she was a guard because in her HS team's program she was a guard. I said it didn't matter what they called her, she played forward. She still posted up a lot on offense. She played at least half the time in the paint, especially on defense.

She got her DI scholly. She played the 3 and the 4 there. Her college listed her as a forward.

Another local girl was seeking a DI offer. She definitely was a point guard. She was shorter than me. I listed her height as 2 inches shorter than me. Her dad came to me and said I listed her height wrong, that she was my height. I said she can't be my height, I can see over her head when we are standing face to face. He insisted she was my height. Her dad's friend was a coach. He came to me and insisted she was my height. I asked him the same thing: How can she be my height if I am taller than her.

She got her DI scholarship despite my listing of her height. Turned out how she played was more important.

I have a female cousin 6’4 and played in college though I dont know where she’s like 20 years older than me, she played Forward.

 

[Minstrel]

She got her DI scholarship despite my listing of her height. Turned out how she played was more important.

Sure, and most of my posts have been about how Harden pretty clearly plays the point guard role for Houston. D'Antoni considers him a point guard because he plays him as a point guard, gives him the point guard duties.

 

[handiman]

Sure, and most of my posts have been about how Harden pretty clearly plays the point guard role for Houston. D'Antoni considers him a point guard because he plays him as a point guard, gives him the point guard duties.

And Harden isn't trying to earn a scholarship at the next level by being labeled a more favorable position relative to his height. He's already a point guard at the highest level.

 

[PCmor7]

And Harden isn't trying to earn a scholarship at the next level by being labeled a more favorable position relative to his height. He's already a point guard at the highest level.

No. He's just trying to be recognized as a point guard, which he isn't.

A sea horse isn't a horse. A shooting star isn't a star. And James Harden isn't a point guard, regardless of what you or D'Antoni tries to make him out to be.

 

[PCmor7]

Sure, and most of my posts have been about how Harden pretty clearly plays the point guard role for Houston. D'Antoni considers him a point guard because he plays him as a point guard, gives him the point guard duties.

Yeah. Except he doesn't play point guard for the Rockets. Chris Paul does that.

 

[handiman]

Yeah. Except he doesn't play point guard for the Rockets. Chris Paul does that.

To convince anyone of that, you need to establish how Harden's role changed when Paul arrived.

 

[PCmor7]

To convince anyone of that, you need to establish how Harden's role changed when Paul arrived.

Why would I have to do that? He wasn't a point guard before Paul arrived either.

 

[PCmor7]

So anyway, handiman and Minstrel, where do KD and LeBron fit onto your ranking of point guards?

 

[hoopsjock]

I've played on teams where I'm the biggest guy on the court and I have to bring the ball up and/or the offense runs through me either in the high post or down low. It doesn't mean I'd call myself a PG.

 

[Hoopguru]

My best point guards of the last 30 years

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Sabas
4. Pippen
5. Giannis

Oh, wait, I forgot to put Jordan in there somewhere.

Those guys except Sabonis are point forwards!

 

[e_blazer]

I've played on teams where I'm the biggest guy on the court and I have to bring the ball up and/or the offense runs through me either in the high post or down low. It doesn't mean I'd call myself a PG.

That’s funny. You sound like a Paul George.

 

[Lanny]

1: Lillard
2: Fuck everybody else

We have a winner.

 

[Lanny]

1: Lillard
2: Fuck everybody else

Hey Wookee, that's the best post I've seen in a long long time.
Thanks, followed by a hearty handshake. Maybe a back slap or two or three or . . .

 

[handiman]

So anyway, handiman and Minstrel, where do KD and LeBron fit onto your ranking of point guards?

I doubt they or their coaches would label them as point guards. They're arguably not even the primary ball handlers on their teams, with guys like Irving and Green/Curry handling much of that load. The LeBron/KD types might bring the ball up and run the offense down the stretch, but they don't carry the same load the bulk of the game.

I can see why parents and coaches hated arguing the point with you.

 

[PCmor7]

I doubt they or their coaches would label them as point guards. They're arguably not even the primary ball handlers on their teams, with guys like Irving and Green/Curry handling much of that load. The LeBron/KD types might bring the ball up and run the offense down the stretch, but they don't carry the same load the bulk of the game.

I can see why parents and coaches hated arguing the point with you.

Because I point out the fallacies in their arguments. Yeah.

LeBron and KD do EXACTLY the same thing as Harden. It just doesn't fit your definition because they don't care if they are labeled as point guards or not. Like I said before, you can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't make it that.

 

[handiman]

Because I point out the fallacies in their arguments. Yeah.

No, because you immediately dismiss anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions. "Why would I have to do that? He wasn't a point guard before Paul arrived either." Open-mindedness and you are not on the same page...

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

No, because you immediately dismiss anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions. "Why would I have to do that? He wasn't a point guard before Paul arrived either." Open-mindedness and you are not on the same page...

This is my kind of subjective version of a PG. Initiates the offense, gets guys in the right spots, communicates and calls the plays. Identifies mismatches and will break a play to get the team to exploit the mismatch, its the PG’s job to get the whole team in a place where they can succeed. Too many times I feel like its turned into, “who dribbles the most”, and while ball handling is important its only a small part of the job.
I can see an arguement for Harden doing some of those things. Definitely lebron, Giannis no and this isnt because I dont like his game, its just because thats not the role he plays. KD doesnt play that role either.

 

[PCmor7]

No, because you immediately dismiss anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions. "Why would I have to do that? He wasn't a point guard before Paul arrived either." Open-mindedness and you are not on the same page...

Oh, for heaven's sake. YOU just dismissed LeBron and KD for your very same preconceived notion ... even though they do exactly the same thing that Harden does.

I'm not being dismissive of your argument because I am stuck in dogma. I'm being dismissive of your argument because you circle back on yourself when it doesn't fit what you want. And I am being dismissive of your argument because it's "D'Antoni says it so that's what he is."

If I called you 8-foot-2, would you be 8-foot-2? If I said you were a ficus, would you be a ficus?

This is what I mean about the people I dealt with. They said something and their only argument was that they wanted it that way. The one girl wasn't my height because she wasn't my height. It had nothing to do with a preconceived notion other than an established length of measure is what it is, not what you want it to be.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Oh, for heaven's sake. YOU just dismissed LeBron and KD for your very same preconceived notion ... even though they do exactly the same thing that Harden does.

I'm not being dismissive of your argument because I am stuck in dogma. I'm being dismissive of your argument because you circle back on yourself when it doesn't fit what you want. And I am being dismissive of your argument because it's "D'Antoni says it so that's what he is."

If I called you 8-foot-2, would you be 8-foot-2? If I said you were a ficus, would you be a ficus?

This is what I mean about the people I dealt with. They said something and their only argument was that they wanted it that way. The one girl wasn't my height because she wasn't my height. It had nothing to do with a preconceived notion other than an established length of measure is what it is, not what you want it to be.

KD to me doesnt play the role of PG for GS, I think a better arguement could be made for Draymond than KD. Like I said above its subjective and just my opinion, but I dont see KD in that role. I think you could make an arguement that Harden does, but Hardens role is different than KD’s in my opinion.

 

[handiman]

Oh, for heaven's sake. YOU just dismissed LeBron and KD for your very same preconceived notion ... even though they do exactly the same thing that Harden does.

Fail. I already explained that LeBron and KD play different roles for their teams, being secondary ball handlers much of the time.