Rank these PGs

[MickZagger]

Wall is the most overrated player in the game in my opinion.

 

[THE HCP]

Wall is the most overrated player in the game in my opinion.

He's the Zags of the S2 world!

 

[magnifier661]

He's the Zags of the S2 world!

He is a self proclaimed genius?

 

[blue9]

Except when you skip over a player who's there and say he isn't.

Ha ha! Precisely my point though! No harm is done, just an "oops" moment. What's funny is I skimmed the list twice to make sure Lillard wasn't on there!
I'm guessing that by and large we're all in here during working hours, and skim quite often. I don't have time to closely read every post in a thread (and I certainly don't read every thread), and I'm guessing that goes for all of us.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Y'alls are so lazy. Where are the advanced stats? Of course, I'm lazy too, which is why I wanted you to do it.

(You also have to remember that Lillard is older than several players on that list. But then again, he's getting used to the NBA game. But then again again, other players are getting used to HIM - Damon Stoudamire looked like he'd end up all-NBA in his first season, but fizzled steadily from there.)

Right now I would say that the only player that Lillard is clearly better than is Jeff Teague. Possibly Vasquez also (because he's a shit defender too) but even then there are circumstances where you might prefer Teague for his absurd athleticism and defense. And he's proved himself in the playoffs.

Conversely, there aren't that many on that list who are clearly preferable to Lillard. Curry and Lawson, obviously, and possibly Conley, given how he apparently outplayed Lillard in the last game (and given that his main strength is his defense but he still scored along with Lillard). I was the world's biggest Wall-doubter last year, but Washington really has kicked into gear since he came back. Of course, that could be a number of factors. Beal's turned it around (and will almost certainly be better-regarded in the long run than Lillard, just as Ray Allen passed up Stephon Marbury - only Beal is 3 years younger than Lillard) but we don't know if he would've done that without Wall.

If we add Holiday to the list, then I might put him above Lillard too.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Can somebody rank them by PER for me? Or give me a link so I can?

 

[Denny Crane]

They;re bunched up at around 17. Curry is 20.5. Lillard is at 16.

I didn't look them all up yesterday.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Hardly. I think Lawson, Hill, Conley, and Curry are clearly PGs on winning teams. That means they're able to run an offense on a winning team. The others have to prove that, no?

You can't just look at the record of their teams: you have to look at that player's effect on the record of the teams, something that is notoriously hard to gauge. But what I meant was "strange" was that you seemed to be using different kinds of classification for different players. For example, Lillard and Wall had "potential" presumably because they're just starting out, but then you talked about the team record for other players. I guess you meant that Lillard and Wall's teams had potential to do well. In theory, though, everyone has "potential".

Rubio & Vasquez? Sergio part 2.

Why choose Sergio? The only reason I can think is that they all speak Spanish, because Rubio and Vasquez have very different games. Vasquez is a sieve on defense but can shoot, and in fact loves taking the big shot, whereas Rubio is a great defender and passer but can't shoot a lick.

 

[Denny Crane]

You can't just look at the record of their teams: you have to look at that player's effect on the record of the teams, something that is notoriously hard to gauge. But what I meant was "strange" was that you seemed to be using different kinds of classification for different players. For example, Lillard and Wall had "potential" presumably because they're just starting out, but then you talked about the team record for other players. I guess you meant that Lillard and Wall's teams had potential to do well. In theory, though, everyone has "potential".



Why choose Sergio? The only reason I can think is that they all speak Spanish, because Rubio and Vasquez have very different games. Vasquez is a sieve on defense but can shoot, and in fact loves taking the big shot, whereas Rubio is a great defender and passer but can't shoot a lick.

What I think of Lillard and Wall is that their teams aren't winning, but I would hardly be shocked if their teams do start winning as they mature. Curry's team didn't win until this season, but you could see he was an exciting prospect who could develop into a winner.

You can't pretend to take a PG off the team and see what the results are. The bottom line is they are running the winning teams. The ball is in their hands an awful lot. Whatever they're doing is contributing to the wins. As I pointed out, Marbury could put up outrageous stats but couldn't win.

As far as the Sergio comparison, my view is they're hyped and flashy players who won't pan out in the long haul. It's a hunch. There sure is a lot of hype about Rubio.

 

[MickZagger]

Y'alls are so lazy. Where are the advanced stats? Of course, I'm lazy too, which is why I wanted you to do it.

(You also have to remember that Lillard is older than several players on that list. But then again, he's getting used to the NBA game. But then again again, other players are getting used to HIM - Damon Stoudamire looked like he'd end up all-NBA in his first season, but fizzled steadily from there.)

Right now I would say that the only player that Lillard is clearly better than is Jeff Teague. Possibly Vasquez also (because he's a shit defender too) but even then there are circumstances where you might prefer Teague for his absurd athleticism and defense. And he's proved himself in the playoffs.

Conversely, there aren't that many on that list who are clearly preferable to Lillard. Curry and Lawson, obviously, and possibly Conley, given how he apparently outplayed Lillard in the last game (and given that his main strength is his defense but he still scored along with Lillard). I was the world's biggest Wall-doubter last year, but Washington really has kicked into gear since he came back. Of course, that could be a number of factors. Beal's turned it around (and will almost certainly be better-regarded in the long run than Lillard, just as Ray Allen passed up Stephon Marbury - only Beal is 3 years younger than Lillard) but we don't know if he would've done that without Wall.

If we add Holiday to the list, then I might put him above Lillard too.

Dude, since when do you value defense?

 

[RoyToy]

Right now I would say that the only player that Lillard is clearly better than is Jeff Teague.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Lillard is also clearly better than Cory Joseph and Patty Mills.

And any other rookie in his draft class.

 

[NOVoodoo]

I was just looking at how pathetic the Charlotte Bobcats are and was trying to figure out if a team would even want to trade for any of their players, which got me to thinking about Kemba Walker.

Walker's put up some impressive numbers on a horrible team, but it's really got to fuck with a young point guard's pysche to go from being the floor general of a NCAA championship team and then start running the show to a team full of D-League talent.

How do ya'll view Walker versus the rest of the guys on this list we're arguing about?

 

[ripmycity]

Is it still early to think Lillard can be a Chris Paul like PG?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Is it still early to think Lillard can be a Chris Paul like PG?

At the rate he's improving...? I have no idea what his ceiling is now.

 

[magnifier661]

Is it still early to think Lillard can be a Chris Paul like PG?

Different type of guards. I think Paul is more the distributing type; while Lillard is more the scoring type. Not saying Lillard can't get a +15 assist night, nor cp3 scoring 30+ any given night.