Rape by deception?

[BrianFromWA]

Thoughts?
http://abcnews.go.com/International...-deception/story?id=11224513&cid=ESPNheadline

Sabbar Kashur, a Palestinian from East Jerusalem, has been sentenced by an Israeli court to 18 months in jail for the unprecedented crime of "rape by deception."
It is a case that has raised some very difficult questions about discrimination and the legal system in Israel.

Two years ago Kashur met a Jewish woman on the street in Jerusalem. He worked as a messenger for an Israeli law firm and like some other Palestinians looking to integrate more effectively into Israeli society had assumed the identity of a Jew. He called himself Dudu, a common Israeli name.

On the same day the two had a consensual sexual encounter in a nearby office building. The woman, whose identity is still protected by law, did not know Kashur was an Arab. When she found out she filed a complaint with police.

Kashur was questioned by police and spent two years under house arrest facing a charge of rape and sexual assault. It was later dropped to the one of "rape by deception" in a plea bargain.
In his verdict Judge Zvi Segal wrote "If she hadn't thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have cooperated."

The judge insisted that the apparent offense of rape by deception was serious enough for jail time and not community service as the defense has argued.

"The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price," Segal wrote.

The case has attracted widespread criticism from Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations.

In the left-leaning Israeli paper Haaretz Thursday, noted columnist Gideon Levy pulled no punches in his condemnation of the verdict.

"Sabbar Kashur wanted to be a person, a person like everyone else. But as luck would have it, he was born a Palestinian. It happens. His chances of being accepted as a human being in Israel are nil," he wrote.

Kashur's decision to adopt an Israeli persona during the daytime is not uncommon, according to Israeli human rights activists.
"It is very well known that Israeli Palestinians living in Israel disguise themselves," said Leah Tsemel, a human rights lawyer. "You change your accent and you change your dress because if you look like an Arab you face harassment."
Kashur's lawyer has filed an appeal so that the case is not used to set a precedent. Adnan Aladdin said if it was "many men would find themselves in jail."

The defense argued that many men use deception to initiate sexual relations with women, from lying about their job to concealing the fact they are married. In this case it was the accused's identity as a Palestinian that seems to have resulted in the prosecution.

Gideon Levy wrote: "I would like to only raise one question with the judge. What if the guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman. Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not."

 

[HailBlazers]

"The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price"

If this is a crime, that I am guilty as charged, along with millions of other men

"unbearable price"

you pay to play, she was fully responsible, it was all in the same f'ing day after all!

 

[speeds]

 

[BrianFromWA]

wtmfmf is that?!?!

 

[oldmangrouch]

"Rape by deception" implies that the deception was so important that it negates the woman's consent. Proving that beyond a reasonable doubt would seem to be a big challenge.

In this case, the prosecution seems to be based on the victim proclaiming herself to be both a slut (who would sleep with a stranger) and a bigot (but not if the stranger was muslim).

 

[Colonel Ronan]

"Rape by deception" implies that the deception was so important that it negates the woman's consent. Proving that beyond a reasonable doubt would seem to be a big challenge.

In this case, the prosecution seems to be based on the victim proclaiming herself to be both a slut (who would sleep with a stranger) and a bigot (but not if the stranger was muslim).

I believe he was questioning the picture speeds posted.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Complete and utter bullshit.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

One of the best episodes ever.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

wtmfmf is that?!?!

It's a riddle.

 

[BrianFromWA]

it looked a bit like the two guy gymnasts painted silver who did the creepiest halftime show I'd ever seen.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Guilty! HCP's wife thinks I'm David Beckham.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Guilty! HCP's wife thinks I'm David Beckham.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[Mediocre Man]

Different laws and culture over there to be sure. Lying to get into a girls pants?......What a novel idea. Next you'll be telling me that men try to buy drinks for women to have sex with them.

 

[crandc]

I have to say I am not comfortable with this. In fact it looks like both parties are crap-ass. The man is a liar and the woman a bigot. Still, a woman does not have to be nice for me to say she does not deserve to be raped. But she gave consent. She was clearly a willing partner. Would it be rape if the woman thought the man were single and it turns out he has a wife and 6 children?

I also think back to pre-Civil Rights days when light-skinned African-Americans would try to "pass" as Latino or white. Anyone read Light in August? A black man is castrated and killed after the white woman he impregnates discovers he is not actually "Mexican" as he told her he was. This is too uncomfortably reminiscent. As the one MP asked, what if it were reversed?

Because rape is not "sex without proper consent", rape is assault. What Roman Polanski did was rape. I question whether what this man did was rape. Dishonest, yes. I'm going to be interested to see what is said on feminist discussion boards and what the views of other women are.

 

[BlazerWookee]

I have to say I am not comfortable with this. In fact it looks like both parties are crap-ass. The man is a liar and the woman a bigot. Still, a woman does not have to be nice for me to say she does not deserve to be raped. But she gave consent. She was clearly a willing partner. Would it be rape if the woman thought the man were single and it turns out he has a wife and 6 children?

I also think back to pre-Civil Rights days when light-skinned African-Americans would try to "pass" as Latino or white. Anyone read Light in August? A black man is castrated and killed after the white woman he impregnates discovers he is not actually "Mexican" as he told her he was. This is too uncomfortably reminiscent. As the one MP asked, what if it were reversed?

Because rape is not "sex without proper consent", rape is assault. What Roman Polanski did was rape. I question whether what this man did was rape. Dishonest, yes. I'm going to be interested to see what is said on feminist discussion boards and what the views of other women are.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to crandc again again."

 

[BlazerCaravan]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to crandc again again."

Indeed. That's a perfect explanation of my feelings on the subject.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to crandc again again."

Indeed. That's a perfect explanation of my feelings on the subject.

Don't worry boys, I repped her for you.

 

[crandc]

Just to update, most of the women who post on feminist sites that I've seen are saying pretty much the same thing.

 

[Idog1976]

I have to say I am not comfortable with this. In fact it looks like both parties are crap-ass. The man is a liar and the woman a bigot. Still, a woman does not have to be nice for me to say she does not deserve to be raped. But she gave consent. She was clearly a willing partner. Would it be rape if the woman thought the man were single and it turns out he has a wife and 6 children?

I also think back to pre-Civil Rights days when light-skinned African-Americans would try to "pass" as Latino or white. Anyone read Light in August? A black man is castrated and killed after the white woman he impregnates discovers he is not actually "Mexican" as he told her he was. This is too uncomfortably reminiscent. As the one MP asked, what if it were reversed?

Because rape is not "sex without proper consent", rape is assault. What Roman Polanski did was rape. I question whether what this man did was rape. Dishonest, yes. I'm going to be interested to see what is said on feminist discussion boards and what the views of other women are.

Definitely agree across the board. Repped.