Reagan on HBO

[Nate4Prez]

There is a new documentary that I'm pretty excited for about Ronald Reagan, it premieres on HBO Monday night at 8pm. I'm particularly excited for it because I was born in 1985 and I have never formed an opinion on Reagan as a President. Both Conservatives and Liberals love to compare themselves to Reagan, and not being alive for his presidency I'm looking forward to wade through all the myths and legends that have been thrown about the last 30 years. I know he was a firm believer in God (and I'm an atheist), and I know he was pro-amnesty (which is the opposite of most of his conservative fan base), it should be pretty revealing to a lot of people.

Here is a link.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Regan had the rare ability to bridge gaps and bring people together, ala Truman and Johnson. IMHO his first term was overall excellence but he seemed to fall asleep at the switch during his second term and let others do and run things improperly. Nonetheless he was a true force worldwide as President whether one liked his politics or not.

 

[maxiep]

History and distance can often soften and put new light on a person. The only person I can recall more hated than Ronald Reagan by his political adversaries was Richard Nixon. Reagan was more hated in his time than George W. Bush.

Ronald Reagan served as a rail switch. We had been going down a track more and more left, like that of Western Europe. The Soviet Bloc was on the march and foreign policy at the time was about how to accomodate Communism. He, Thatcher and Kohl not only stemmed the tide, but turned it and defeated the Soviets. Economically, we started to trust in the free market rather than the government.

Where I will always criticize him was lacking the political will to cut government. He cut tax rates (although increased the payroll tax) and revenues doubled under Reagan, but spending increased by even more. He had an opportunity to crush deficit spending, but instead took it to a new level.

His lasting impact, however was more a matter of the mind than of policy. He made us feel proud to be Americans again. Life under Carter felt like how life feels today: We're defeated, deflated, have little hope for the future and our enemies (China, radical Islam) are on the march. Reagan snapped us out of that mindset.

Sadly, there's no Reagan on the horizon for 2012. Our leaders are not up to the challenges we face.

 

[bluefrog]

I was pre-teen when Reagan was in office. I only remember the war on drug stuff. There was a "Just Say No" splash screen on all the video games at the arcade (Operation Wolf!).

It's hard to say if the war on drugs is a success. I'd argue 'no'. I personally know a dozen people who have died from overdosing on illegal drugs. I'd say I know a dozen more who died from abusing prescription drugs too. I think it should be treated as a health issue but the drug war culture is ingrained in our country.

 

[speeds]

Not the Reagan I was hoping you were talking about... Cya.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I've been to the REagan museum a few times here in Simi Valley, great place. They're having events this weekend..streaming online.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Not the Reagan I was hoping you were talking about... Cya.

Well, yeah, in his last years.

 

[MARIS61]

Reagan was a P.O.S. as a person, an embarrassing corporate puppet as a President, and a pathetic joke as an actor.

More than any American leader in history, Reagan is to blame for our current economic sterility.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

[video=youtube;SCvhyE2k9Is]

 

[Denny Crane]

Reagan was a P.O.S. as a person, an embarrassing corporate puppet as a President, and a pathetic joke as an actor.

More than any American leader in history, Reagan is to blame for our current economic sterility.

No, FDR is.

 

[Denny Crane]

I was in my 20s when Reagan was president, and I remember those times well. There is a lot of truth to maxiep's post about how today feels like the Carter years.

There is also truth to his words about the USSR, through Cuba as a front, was stirring up shit in the 3rd world. See:
Cuban intervention in Angola
and
http://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/n-sandinistas.php

Throughout their rule, the Sandinistas maintained a close relationship with Cuba. Prior to the revolution, the FSLN had been inspired by the socialist revolution in Cuba. During the revolution in Nicaragua, the FSLN received arms from Panama, Cuba, and Venezuela, and logistical support from Costa Rica, although Cuba’s Fidel Castro was the only country that wanted to see a socialist revolution in Nicaragua (the other countries supported the FSLN as a viable opponent to Somoza and to prevent the radicalization of the revolution). Immediately after the revolution, in fact, Cuba sent advisors to Nicaragua to consult with the new government about the formation of its policies. When the FSLN was pressured by the contras, Cuba increased its assistance to Nicaragua. In 1983, for example, after the Contras scored some successes against the FSLN, Cuban general Arnoldo Ochoa traveled to Nicaragua to advice the Sandinistas on their military campaign, and the number of Cuban advisers and military units in Nicaragua increased dramatically.

Shocking that Reagan was anti-communist! /sarcasm

That aside, the legal question about the Boland Amendment always interested me. We have three branches of govt. by design - Judicial, Legislative, and Executive. There's supposed to be a balance of power between them. Congress cannot just pass anything and it's law - we're seeing the legal challenges to ObamaCare as proof. This amendment sure seems like congress way overstepping its bounds and trying to dictate through law what the president "must" do with respect to purview delegated to the president in the constitution.

The Boland Amendment Constitution May Justify Reagan's Defiance

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

No, FDR is.

I think Johnson is with his Great Society.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I think every liberal every is to blame for problems, always

 

[mook]

I don't really buy that Reagan was some kind of messianic personality that could single-handedly change the outlook of an entire nation from Carter-malaise to Reagan-euphoria. I don't have that much faith in government or government leadership. It always strikes me as silly that so many do. Especially those who are normally so suspicious of centralized federal leadership.

I think America got cheerier when oil prices got lower, inflation dropped and the economy recovered.

A leader can definitely shift the political spectrum from more liberal-leaning to more conservative-leaning though, which is what he did.

He sold the idea that we didn't have to pay taxes to fund large government, and he sold it well. As Cheney said not long ago, "Regan proved that deficits don't matter."

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't really buy that Reagan was some kind of messianic personality that could single-handedly change the outlook of an entire nation from Carter-malaise to Reagan-euphoria. I don't have that much faith in government or government leadership. It always strikes me as silly that so many do. Especially those who are normally so suspicious of centralized federal leadership.

I think America got cheerier when oil prices got lower, inflation dropped and the economy recovered.

A leader can definitely shift the political spectrum from more liberal-leaning to more conservative-leaning though, which is what he did.

He sold the idea that we didn't have to pay taxes to fund large government, and he sold it well. As Cheney said not long ago, "Regan proved that deficits don't matter."

The election results and polling data show otherwise. So do the economic data.

I would point out his speeches were widely acclaimed as being among the greatest in US history, if not all-time. His style was quite different than any other president in my memory - he didn't go around making speeches in friendly venues and no cameras, he went around congress and the press and spoke directly to the people in nationally televised addresses.

In 1984, he won 49 states. People of both parties (Reagan Democrats) simply loved the guy in far greater numbers than those who tried to destroy him then and now (after the fact).

Obama had some of the same qualities as a campaigner. Just look at the sheer number of people who showed up to some of his campaign speeches.

It's called being inspirational.

And people inspired to go out and do bigger and better things.

 

[mook]

I just don't think a political leader can do much to make people happier or more confident in the long-term just through charisma and intangible leadership qualities. A politician, no matter how dynamic or engaging, just isn't going to suddenly make you think you will soon be able to afford a nicer car or get a better job or get laid just because he gives fantastic speeches. Well, maybe for an hour or two he can whip up a nice fervor, but then you look at your bank account or you get a call from a collection agency or your girlfriend gives you herpes and that shit goes right out the window.

An effective politician can steer people toward favoring certain kinds of policy decisions. And if those decisions work out, well, they become pretty popular. Reagan argued for deregulation and a drastic reduction in higher tax brackets, both of which were pretty sound ideas for that time. It seemed to work out, so he's remembered well.

And those who love him go on and on about how Dear Leader ended the Carter Malaise with just the force of his personal magnetism. But if his measures had backfired and the economy went in the crapper, well, he'd be hated right now and people would remember him as a friendly, dottering old man who just made shit worse.

 

[Denny Crane]

I just don't think a political leader can do much to make people happier or more confident in the long-term just through charisma and intangible leadership qualities. A politician, no matter how dynamic or engaging, just isn't going to suddenly make you think you will soon be able to afford a nicer car or get a better job or get laid just because he gives fantastic speeches. Well, maybe for an hour or two he can whip up a nice fervor, but then you look at your bank account or you get a call from a collection agency or your girlfriend gives you herpes and that shit goes right out the window.

An effective politician can steer people toward favoring certain kinds of policy decisions. And if those decisions work out, well, they become pretty popular. Reagan argued for deregulation and a drastic reduction in higher tax brackets, both of which were pretty sound ideas for that time. It seemed to work out, so he's remembered well.

And those who love him go on and on about how Dear Leader ended the Carter Malaise with just the force of his personal magnetism. But if his measures had backfired and the economy went in the crapper, well, he'd be hated right now and people would remember him as a friendly, dottering old man who just made shit worse.

Not quite right, mook.

Reagan came in promising to turn things around. He said that we'd have malaise for a while before it would turn. The economy actually got worse for about a year before it took off like a rocket. While it was worse, people were really down on Reagan and doubted he could do anything (like your posts suggest).

Nobody I know says Reagan turned things around due to sheer personal magnetism. That only got peoples' attention. There was a lot of stuff involved, known as Reaganomics. Laffer Curve and all that.

You do know that Reagan had two degrees from Eureka College, right? Economics <---- and Sociology. Both helped him throughout his personal and political life, and especially when it came to the nuts and bolts of running a union, state government, and then the presidency.

A really big difference between Reagan and Obama, BTW, is Obama promised (recklessly) big "stimulus" package means unemployment remains below 8% (FAIL) while Reagan promised economic downturn followed by america's brightest days ahead (true).

 

[mook]

Nobody I know says Reagan turned things around due to sheer personal magnetism. That only got peoples' attention.

hmmm....

His lasting impact, however was more a matter of the mind than of policy. He made us feel proud to be Americans again. Life under Carter felt like how life feels today: We're defeated, deflated, have little hope for the future and our enemies (China, radical Islam) are on the march. Reagan snapped us out of that mindset.

Sadly, there's no Reagan on the horizon for 2012. Our leaders are not up to the challenges we face.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't see any incongruity between the two statements.

When my parents grew up, my grandparents worked their asses off so the kids would have a future better than theirs.

When I was growing up in the Carter years, my parents told me that the country's best days were behind us and I better enjoy the present while I could (before it got worse).

Huge difference in the attitudes. "We're defeated, deflated, have little hope for the future" indeed.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Denny and Mook, you are providing excellent example of why I am excited to watch this tonight, so I can form my own opinion.

 

[maxiep]

The difference between Reagan and Obama is that Reagan told Americans they could do it themselves and Obama tells Americans that government can solve their problems.

 

[Nate4Prez]

The difference between Reagan and Obama is that Reagan told Americans they could do it themselves and Obama tells Americans that government can solve their problems.

Well, that, and one is black.

 

[barfo]

I don't see any incongruity between the two statements.

When my parents grew up, my grandparents worked their asses off so the kids would have a future better than theirs.

When I was growing up in the Carter years, my parents told me that the country's best days were behind us and I better enjoy the present while I could (before it got worse).

Huge difference in the attitudes. "We're defeated, deflated, have little hope for the future" indeed.

So, basically, it is your parents that are at fault. I always suspected as much.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

So, basically, it is your parents that are at fault. I always suspected as much.

barfo

My parents expressed the sentiment of most parents of the time. How's that "new normal" working out for us?

 

[Denny Crane]

If the documentary is any good, they'll talk about the many paradoxes surrounding Reagan. For example, in the late 1970s, he was a vocal opponent of the ERA (Equal Rights Amendment). Then his first appointee to the Supreme Court was a woman, Sandra Day O'Connor. Or the rabid anti-communism talk and beliefs that made up the core of his beliefs and then he went on to nearly negotiate away 100% of ours and Russian nukes a couple years later (and the fall of the USSR).

And mook, if you don't believe that the sheer personal magnetism of a man doesn't have a lot to do with things, Reagan basically kicked out all the interpreters and staffers at Reykjavík and had a one-on-one with Gorby, the result was a fairly long string of treaties through the Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama presidencies eliminating about 90% of the nuclear weapons stockpiles of both countries.

 

[maxiep]

Closer to the truth than we realized at the time.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4174/saturday-night-live-president-reagan-mastermind

 

[mook]

And mook, if you don't believe that the sheer personal magnetism of a man doesn't have a lot to do with things, Reagan basically kicked out all the interpreters and staffers at Reykjavík and had a one-on-one with Gorby, the result was a fairly long string of treaties through the Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama presidencies eliminating about 90% of the nuclear weapons stockpiles of both countries.

I see the impact all the time of personal magnetism. I lack enough of it that those who do have it stand out nicely in contrast to me.

Some people are definitely better at convincing people of all sorts of things. What they aren't able to do, though, is to make people overall more happy or optimistic about their lot in life. At least not with a few good speeches, which is all most Americans hear (at most) from their president every year. They can with well-formed policy, but not with a couple of speeches. Not in a lasting way.

I don't dispute that Reagan was a popular president or an effective negotiator. He definitely got stuff done. I just think a lot of people romanticize his personal magnetism into being this powerful force that compelled a nation into being happy. Which wasn't really the case.

 

[barfo]

My parents expressed the sentiment of most parents of the time. How's that "new normal" working out for us?

You are your parents, Denny. Pessimistic.

Me, I think things are fine, looking up. I'm optimistic. New normal is ok by me.

barfo

 

[mook]

I'm actually getting kind of optimistic too.

My wife's business had a stunningly record month in December. I mean insanely good. January was nice and February is shaping up pretty nicely too. So good that we're going to contract out more work, creating jobs for a warehouse company in Tennessee. She's starting a second business this year, which also looks promising.

Three families I know are buying houses within the next 3 or so months, so at least anecdotaly it seems like housing is starting to relax.

The company I work for hired several engineers and corporate-types recently, and they have some nice manufacturing deals lined up. A couple of friends I've know who were unemployed forever finally found work.

For the first time I feel like there's going to be some progress on improving the affordability of health care. Lots of people here will disagree with me on this point, but I see the current system through my wife's British eyes all the time, and she thinks our system is, in her words, "bloody insane."

Detroit is finally out of the Hummer mindset, and GM made a profit in 2010.

The middle east, for the first time in my memory, seems to be making lasting political progress.

Housing prices are finally getting in line with people's real-world income, at least in my area.

A lot of people still have it bad, and I suppose there's a downside to each one of my points. But I'm not nearly as pessimistic as I was two years ago.

Hmmm. Maybe it's all just because Obama. Maybe it's more a matter of the mind than of policy. He made us feel proud to be Americans again. Life under Bush felt like how life felt under Carter: We're defeated, deflated, have little hope for the future and our enemies (China, radical Islam) are on the march. Obama snapped us out of that mindset.

lol. No, it doesn't work that way.

 

[maxiep]

I'm actually getting kind of optimistic too.

My wife's business had a stunningly record month in December. I mean insanely good. January was nice and February is shaping up pretty nicely too. So good that we're going to contract out more work, creating jobs for a warehouse company in Tennessee. She's starting a second business this year, which also looks promising.

Three families I know are buying houses within the next 3 or so months, so at least anecdotaly it seems like housing is starting to relax.

The company I work for hired several engineers and corporate-types recently, and they have some nice manufacturing deals lined up. A couple of friends I've know who were unemployed forever finally found work.

For the first time I feel like there's going to be some progress on improving the affordability of health care. Lots of people here will disagree with me on this point, but I see the current system through my wife's British eyes all the time, and she thinks our system is, in her words, "bloody insane."

Detroit is finally out of the Hummer mindset, and GM made a profit in 2010.

The middle east, for the first time in my memory, seems to be making lasting political progress.

Housing prices are finally getting in line with people's real-world income, at least in my area.

A lot of people still have it bad, and I suppose there's a downside to each one of my points. But I'm not nearly as pessimistic as I was two years ago.

Hmmm. Maybe it's all just because Obama. Maybe it's more a matter of the mind than of policy. He made us feel proud to be Americans again. Life under Bush felt like how life felt under Carter: We're defeated, deflated, have little hope for the future and our enemies (China, radical Islam) are on the march. Obama snapped us out of that mindset.

lol. No, it doesn't work that way.

This post is proof if you set your expectations low enough, eventually you'll be happy.