Reality Check: The Center Position

[Schilly]

All the discussion pertaining to Meyers made me wonder what our expectations for a 2nd year center should be. This is a list of Centers taken in teh 1st round for the last 5 years along with their PER and basic per 36 stats (PER - Pts - REB - BK)

2009
#2 Hasheem Thabeet: 4.7 - 5.1 - 7.2 - 1.6
#24 BJ Mullens: 3.5 - 10.6 - 10.2 -1.3

2010
#11 Cole Aldrich: 17.7 - 11.9 - 10.0 - 3.3

2011
#3 Enes Kanter: 17.6 - 16.9 - 10.2 - 1.1
#5 Jonas Valanciunus: 14.7 - 13.7 - 11.3 - 1.2
#7 Bismack Biyombo: 10.1 - 8.1 - 12.1
#16 Nicola Vucevic: 17.8 - 14.2 - 12.9 - 1.1 - 2.4

2012
#9 Andre Drummond: 22.2 - 14.5 - 14.4 - 2.0
#11 Meyers Leonard: 11.4 - 10.7 - 11.6 - 0.6
#17 Tyler Zeller: 15.0 - 12.8 - 9.9 - 1.4
#22 Fab Melo: Not in League
#26 Miles Plumlee: 14.6 - 12.1 - 11.4 - 1.9
#30 Festus Ezeli: Injured No Games Played

2013 (Rookie Numbers)
#4 Cody Zeller: 10.1 - 10.8 - 8.7 - 1.0
#5 Alex Len: 8.3 - 8.3 - 10.4 - 1.7
#12 Steven Adams: 11.7 - 8.3 - 10.5 - 1.9
#13 Kelly Olynyk: 12.6 - 13.3 - 9.0 - 0.9
#21 Gorgui Dieng: 9.1 - 7.8 - 12.6 - 3.1
#27 Rudy Gobert: 11.0 - 7.6 - 12.5 - 2.8

Obviously stats are only a part of the equation... Deduce what you will.

 

[PapaG]

Throw in Meyers' USG rate as well, compared to the other centers. He's not nearly as bad as the armchair GMs try to prove him to be.

I just worry that Leonar_ will show up for a game with his pants on backwards, and his shoes on the wrong feet! :MARIS61:

 

[TBpup]

Throw in Meyers' USG rate as well, compared to the other centers. He's not nearly as bad as the armchair GMs try to prove him to be.

I just worry that Leonar_ will show up for a game with his pants on backwards, and his shoes on the wrong feet! :MARIS61:

Now that's hilarious!!! I'd be interested to see Meyer's 2013 numbers for comparison so far is you can add them in Schilly.

 

[Natebishop3]

I actually think this is good example of why you don't take a big man in the first round. They're so hard to peg. If we would have taken Lamb instead of Meyers, and then Adams with our pick this year, I think that would have worked out much better for us.

 

[TBpup]

I actually think this is good example of why you don't take a big man in the first round. They're so hard to peg. If we would have taken Lamb instead of Meyers, and then Adams with our pick this year, I think that would have worked out much better for us.

But wouldn't that have been taking Adams in the 1st round this year?

I know what you mean though. They are such a crapshoot.

 

[PapaG]

I actually think this is good example of why you don't take a big man in the first round. They're so hard to peg. If we would have taken Lamb instead of Meyers, and then Adams with our pick this year, I think that would have worked out much better for us.

I'd have rather had Jordan over Bowie, and Durant over Oden.

Those aren't happening, either.

 

[TBpup]

I'd have rather had Jordan over Bowie, and Durant over Oden.

Those aren't happening, either.

Sadly it's not happening but in both cases, I think it was legit at the time to at least question why the best player with the best work ethic wasn't being taken. Fair?

 

[PapaG]

Adams has a 11.7 PER on 12.7 USG. WS/48 of 0.127. TRB% of 16.4.

Leonard has a 11.4 PER on 13.9 US. WS/48 of 0.109. TRB% of 17.6.

I think it's still a crapshoot as to which will be the better NBA player. Adams doesn't have the athleticism or Leonard, and Leonard doesn't have the experience of Adams, both in college and in New Zealand when Adams played professionally, er, "club" ball. Tough call.

 

[PapaG]

Sadly it's not happening but in both cases, I think it was legit at the time to at least question why the best player with the best work ethic wasn't being taken. Fair?

We can question things all we want. They can't be changed, though, so it instead becomes some sort of internal rationalization of an event that we had zero control over, and never will have control over.

 

[Denny Crane]

Mychal Thompson and Przybilla. How many centers have the Blazers had who didn't suffer career ending injury (effectively)?

 

[RR7]

Meyers really has less blocks per 36 than Olynk? wow

I think a few mentioned Mullens, and there's been the comparisons to Hawes. I think he could very well be as good as both. I'd just prefer he went the Robin lopez route instead of that path, personally. Of being a slightly more "traditional"(whatever the hell that really means) C, instead of a floor spacing, 3 point shooting C. But he is what he is. I'd happily include him in a trade this offseason without fear of a Jermain O'Neal situation, and am at the same time just as happy to have him stay here and continue to grow as a player. I don't think he's likely to grow into what we might ideally want next to Aldridge as our full time C, but I also definitely don't think he's going to wash out of the league or anything.

 

[Denny Crane]

The Rockets lucked out with Hakeem. They had back to back #1 overall picks. They picked another C, 9 foot tall / 90 lb. Ralph Sampson. Sampson dominated in college and did OK until Hakeem. They tried him at PF, twin towers. And then he got hurt and his career basically ended. They also drafted Yao Ming, who made it 3 years before his feet fell off.

The Lakers watched Wilt and Kareem to be sure they were ironmen, then traded for them.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Throw in Meyers' USG rate as well, compared to the other centers. He's not nearly as bad as the armchair GMs try to prove him to be.

I just worry that Leonar_ will show up for a game with his pants on backwards, and his shoes on the wrong feet! :MARIS61:

Thing is, he's statistically not all that terrible while not knowing what the heck he's doing more than half the time he's on the floor. He'll be halfway decent once he gets another few dozen games under his belt...

 

[PapaG]

Thing is, he's statistically not all that terrible while not knowing what the heck he's doing more than half the time he's on the floor. He'll be halfway decent once he gets another few dozen games under his belt...

That's what I think, too. I don't think he's a good NBA player right now, but he's not the complete disaster that the "Leonar_" crowd make him out to be.

 

[Schilly]

Breakthrough Year - age - MPG - PPG - RPG - BPG (min 1200 minutes and 24mpg)

2009
#2 Hasheem Thabeet: None
#24 BJ Mullens: 4th year - 23yo - 26.9 - 10.6 - 6.4 - 0.6

2010
#11 Cole Aldrich: None

2011
#3 Enes Kanter: 3rd year - 21yo - 25.1 - 11.7 - 6.3 - 0.5
#5 Jonas Valanciunus: 1st year - 20yo - 23.9 - 8.9 - 6.0 - 1.3
#7 Bismack Biyombo: 2nd year - 20yo - 27.1 - 4.8 - 7.3 - 1.8
#16 Nicola Vucevic: 2nd year - 22yo -33.2 - 13.1 - 11.9 - 1.0

2012
#9 Andre Drummond: 2nd year - 20yo - 32.5 - 13.1 - 13.0 - 1.8
#11 Meyers Leonard: none
#17 Tyler Zeller: 1st year - 23yo - 26.4 - 7.9 - 5.7 - 0.9
#22 Fab Melo: Not in League
#26 Miles Plumlee: 2nd year - 25yo - 26.8 - 9.0 - 8.5 - 1.4
#30 Festus Ezeli: Injured No Games Played

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Myers shows me that for a guy who doesn't have a lot of minutes logged playing hoops (at all) - is pretty efficient and is learning the game. He's only 21 yrs old now, in his 2nd year since drafted, and its WAY too early to give up on him. I haven't. He's just too young and inexperienced to help a playoff team very much. Freeland is (was) doing the team better this year.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'd have rather had Jordan over Bowie, and Durant over Oden.

Those aren't happening, either.

The funny/sad thing is, if we would have won the fucking coin toss, we would have drafted Hakeem and we would have won a shit ton of championships.

 

[Natebishop3]

Breakthrough Year - age - MPG - PPG - RPG - BPG (min 1200 minutes and 24mpg)

2009
#2 Hasheem Thabeet: None
#24 BJ Mullens: 4th year - 23yo - 26.9 - 10.6 - 6.4 - 0.6

2010
#11 Cole Aldrich: None

2011
#3 Enes Kanter: 3rd year - 21yo - 25.1 - 11.7 - 6.3 - 0.5
#5 Jonas Valanciunus: 1st year - 20yo - 23.9 - 8.9 - 6.0 - 1.3
#7 Bismack Biyombo: 2nd year - 20yo - 27.1 - 4.8 - 7.3 - 1.8
#16 Nicola Vucevic: 2nd year - 22yo -33.2 - 13.1 - 11.9 - 1.0

2012
#9 Andre Drummond: 2nd year - 20yo - 32.5 - 13.1 - 13.0 - 1.8
#11 Meyers Leonard: none
#17 Tyler Zeller: 1st year - 23yo - 26.4 - 7.9 - 5.7 - 0.9
#22 Fab Melo: Not in League
#26 Miles Plumlee: 2nd year - 25yo - 26.8 - 9.0 - 8.5 - 1.4
#30 Festus Ezeli: Injured No Games Played

It's too bad we didn't pick a center in 2011. Kanter, Valanciunus, and Vucevic are all solid.

 

[Schilly]

One thing to note... most of the guys that are looking better, actually play on crappy teams so get more minutes.

 

[THE HCP]

Drummond is only getting better.

 

[Sedatedfork]

The funny/sad thing is, if we would have won the fucking coin toss, we would have drafted Hakeem and we would have won a shit ton of championships.

No doubt. What could have been... still those late 80's teams and 90's teams were fun to watch. This city would have gone crazy had we been able to close the deal against the Pistons. I still remember game 2, when Laimbeer hit all those 3's and the Blazers won. Wish we could have taken care of business in the MC.

 

[Natebishop3]

No doubt. What could have been... still those late 80's teams and 90's teams were fun to watch. This city would have gone crazy had we been able to close the deal against the Pistons. I still remember game 2, when Laimbeer hit all those 3's and the Blazers won. Wish we could have taken care of business in the MC.

Two things that could have changed the course of Blazers history...

#1 Sabonis actually coming over when we drafted him. I don't see Jordan overcoming a Blazers team with Sabonis in the mix.

#2 Trading for Barkley. One problem with our team is that we didn't have that one guy who would step on the neck of an opponent to get the win. I watched a replay of the game in Chicago where Jordan just goes off from three. Up until that point we were absolutely crushing the Bulls. It wasn't even close. We just choked. If we had Barkley, I don't think that would have happened.

 

[blue9]

Two things that could have changed the course of Blazers history...

#1 Sabonis actually coming over when we drafted him. I don't see Jordan overcoming a Blazers team with Sabonis in the mix.

Sabonis would have changed NBA history, not just Blazers history. I really wonder who would be the GOAT today if Sabonis had come over when he was drafted...

 

[jlprk]

Leonard has regressed. We can keep a roster spot open for him for years, as with Webster and Outlaw, or we can bundle him into a trade.

McMillan eventually got Outlaw to just break plays and try to score. McMillan put him in mainly in the 4th quarter, when desperation plays were needed. Maybe after a few years Leonard will learn one skill like that.

 

[riverman]

Leonard has regressed. We can keep a roster spot open for him for years, as with Webster and Outlaw, or we can bundle him into a trade.

McMillan eventually got Outlaw to just break plays and try to score. McMillan put him in mainly in the 4th quarter, when desperation plays were needed. Maybe after a few years Leonard will learn one skill like that.

To me Leonard hasn't regressed, he's shifted from a center to a power forward. He's more Dirk than Howard. The kid can shoot the rock.

 

[Schilly]

His consistency in minutes has fallen off too. Think of Joel Przybilla, he never really progressed until he got consistent meaningful minutes.

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk

 

[Pinwheel1]

I don't think he has regressed either. Actually I would say that 90% of the time we say a player has regressed.....he hasn't.
Until a player gets consistent minutes it is really hard to tell if he has improved or not.

 

[damianlillard]

meyers needs to get roy hibbert to work with him this summer and gary payton need to actually teach lillard this summer, if they both learned how to defend like their teachers taught them, then we could be looking at #1 defense and #1 offense for a very long time

 

[BBert]

I agree Leonard is completely clueless at times, particularly on defense. But he has two skills right now: He rebounds at a high rate and he is a very good shooter. Actually three skills: He's seven feet tall and pretty darned coordinated for a seven-footer.

Giving up on Meyers, especially considering his small contract and low trade value, would be dumb, and is not going to happen (right now). That doesn't mean he can't be included in a trade, but that this Leonard bashing as if he isn't worth a roster spot is...as clueless as Leonard is on defense.