Recommend an MP3 player?

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZAE @ May 27 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ May 27 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ZAE and I represent the two ends of the music player spectrum.

He likes the convenience and standardization of Apple's system and doesn't mind continuously paying for it.

I would rather have the flexibility, efficiency and lower cost of operation that comes with a Sansa or Creative player.</div>

Yeah, looking at the Sansa, it looks like that fits you're needs more Dumpy.

ghoti: You don't have to have an account with iTunes or pay for anything continuously, unless you choose to buy an album from the iTunes store.
</div>

You know anyone who has an iPod and has never made a purchase from the iTunes store? And what if perchance I want to buy music elsewhere? Not happening.

At the very least, you still have to use iTunes.

I'm not saying Apple's system is bad, but it definitely offers no flexibility and is smartly designed to trap users into spending money with Apple and nowhere else.

I figure a noob like Dumpy is better off not indoctrinating himself into that and learning the alternative instead.

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake @ Jun 2 2008, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Should of got an Ipod...</div>

Yes, Dumpy should pay twice as much for a larger player with the same capacity that has features he doesn't want or need.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 3 2008, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZAE @ May 27 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ May 27 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ZAE and I represent the two ends of the music player spectrum.

He likes the convenience and standardization of Apple's system and doesn't mind continuously paying for it.

I would rather have the flexibility, efficiency and lower cost of operation that comes with a Sansa or Creative player.</div>

Yeah, looking at the Sansa, it looks like that fits you're needs more Dumpy.

ghoti: You don't have to have an account with iTunes or pay for anything continuously, unless you choose to buy an album from the iTunes store.
</div>

You know anyone who has an iPod and has never made a purchase from the iTunes store? And what if perchance I want to buy music elsewhere? Not happening.

At the very least, you still have to use iTunes.

I'm not saying Apple's system is bad, but it definitely offers no flexibility and is smartly designed to trap users into spending money with Apple and nowhere else.

I figure a noob like Dumpy is better off not indoctrinating himself into that and learning the alternative instead.
</div>

I don't think you understand how iTunes works...

Everyone I know has an iPod, and no one I know has ever made a purchase from the iTunes store.

I know one person who wanted to go legit, and decided to buy music from Wal-Mart Online (I think?) and successfully put that music on his iPod.

Many people I know have transferred music from CD's, and almost everyone I know...ahem...gets their music for "free" by means of programs such as Limewire, or random sites with full albums.

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 3 2008, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 3 2008, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZAE @ May 27 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ May 27 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ZAE and I represent the two ends of the music player spectrum.

He likes the convenience and standardization of Apple's system and doesn't mind continuously paying for it.

I would rather have the flexibility, efficiency and lower cost of operation that comes with a Sansa or Creative player.</div>

Yeah, looking at the Sansa, it looks like that fits you're needs more Dumpy.

ghoti: You don't have to have an account with iTunes or pay for anything continuously, unless you choose to buy an album from the iTunes store.
</div>

You know anyone who has an iPod and has never made a purchase from the iTunes store? And what if perchance I want to buy music elsewhere? Not happening.

At the very least, you still have to use iTunes.

I'm not saying Apple's system is bad, but it definitely offers no flexibility and is smartly designed to trap users into spending money with Apple and nowhere else.

I figure a noob like Dumpy is better off not indoctrinating himself into that and learning the alternative instead.
</div>

I don't think you understand how iTunes works...

Everyone I know has an iPod, and no one I know has ever made a purchase from the iTunes store.

I know one person who wanted to go legit, and decided to buy music from Wal-Mart Online (I think?) and successfully put that music on his iPod.

Many people I know have transferred music from CD's, and almost everyone I know...ahem...gets their music for "free" by means of programs such as Limewire, or random sites with full albums.
</div>

I know exactly how iTunes works and I know exactly how much Dumpy knows about how to acquire music and play it on his player.

Not everyone is a 19 year old who wants to take the time to learn this stuff.

And if you are using Limewire, there are much better, faster and safer ways of downloading things.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I too own an iPod and have never bought anything off of iTunes

 

[ZAE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake @ Jun 2 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Should of got an Ipod...</div>

The clip was a good choice for Dumpy. It makes more since, If you read threw the thread he doesn't need an iPod.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 3 2008, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 3 2008, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 3 2008, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZAE @ May 27 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ May 27 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ZAE and I represent the two ends of the music player spectrum.

He likes the convenience and standardization of Apple's system and doesn't mind continuously paying for it.

I would rather have the flexibility, efficiency and lower cost of operation that comes with a Sansa or Creative player.</div>

Yeah, looking at the Sansa, it looks like that fits you're needs more Dumpy.

ghoti: You don't have to have an account with iTunes or pay for anything continuously, unless you choose to buy an album from the iTunes store.
</div>

You know anyone who has an iPod and has never made a purchase from the iTunes store? And what if perchance I want to buy music elsewhere? Not happening.

At the very least, you still have to use iTunes.

I'm not saying Apple's system is bad, but it definitely offers no flexibility and is smartly designed to trap users into spending money with Apple and nowhere else.

I figure a noob like Dumpy is better off not indoctrinating himself into that and learning the alternative instead.
</div>

I don't think you understand how iTunes works...

Everyone I know has an iPod, and no one I know has ever made a purchase from the iTunes store.

I know one person who wanted to go legit, and decided to buy music from Wal-Mart Online (I think?) and successfully put that music on his iPod.

Many people I know have transferred music from CD's, and almost everyone I know...ahem...gets their music for "free" by means of programs such as Limewire, or random sites with full albums.
</div>

I know exactly how iTunes works and I know exactly how much Dumpy knows about how to acquire music and play it on his player.

Not everyone is a 19 year old who wants to take the time to learn this stuff.

And if you are using Limewire, there are much better, faster and safer ways of downloading things.
</div>

Learn what stuff? There's not much to learn, haha...it's as simple as dragging music into a library (similar to dragging music into a folder...)

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 3 2008, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 3 2008, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 3 2008, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 3 2008, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZAE @ May 27 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ May 27 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ZAE and I represent the two ends of the music player spectrum.

He likes the convenience and standardization of Apple's system and doesn't mind continuously paying for it.

I would rather have the flexibility, efficiency and lower cost of operation that comes with a Sansa or Creative player.</div>

Yeah, looking at the Sansa, it looks like that fits you're needs more Dumpy.

ghoti: You don't have to have an account with iTunes or pay for anything continuously, unless you choose to buy an album from the iTunes store.
</div>

You know anyone who has an iPod and has never made a purchase from the iTunes store? And what if perchance I want to buy music elsewhere? Not happening.

At the very least, you still have to use iTunes.

I'm not saying Apple's system is bad, but it definitely offers no flexibility and is smartly designed to trap users into spending money with Apple and nowhere else.

I figure a noob like Dumpy is better off not indoctrinating himself into that and learning the alternative instead.
</div>

I don't think you understand how iTunes works...

Everyone I know has an iPod, and no one I know has ever made a purchase from the iTunes store.

I know one person who wanted to go legit, and decided to buy music from Wal-Mart Online (I think?) and successfully put that music on his iPod.

Many people I know have transferred music from CD's, and almost everyone I know...ahem...gets their music for "free" by means of programs such as Limewire, or random sites with full albums.
</div>

I know exactly how iTunes works and I know exactly how much Dumpy knows about how to acquire music and play it on his player.

Not everyone is a 19 year old who wants to take the time to learn this stuff.

And if you are using Limewire, there are much better, faster and safer ways of downloading things.
</div>

Learn what stuff? There's not much to learn, haha...it's as simple as dragging music into a library (similar to dragging music into a folder...)
</div>

You have to use the software.

And it is NOT as "simple as dragging music into a library". You have to learn to properly use the software.

I'm not saying Dumpy couldn't use iTunes, but if you think it's the simplest way to store and listen to music you are wrong.

Why are iPod users always so protective of their choice? There are advantages and disadvantages to choosing an iPod. If Dumpy had wanted a player with lots of accessories and he had a Mac or whatever I would have told him to get an iPod.

He wanted to save money and get something specific to his needs and that's what he got.

 

[Dumpy]

hey guys, I appreciate the comments! I really have no interest in buying music on-line (and that's partailly because I don't want to listen to music in "shuffle" mode; I want to listen to complete albums). I just want to put some of my CDs on an MP3 player and use it when I exercise. That's it. It doesn't need all the features--just a full display and be small enough that I can carry while I run without becoming uncomfortable. There's also no way I'd overpay for an ipod when something cheaper would do just fine.

Also, to set the record straight, I might be getting old, but I'm sure I could figure out how to use the software. Computer software these days is pretty much idiot-proof, right? I might not have the energy and time to focus on it, though--that's always the issue.

When I really want to listen to music on my computer, I just turn to pandora. I just haven't seen the need to download music or load my cds onto my computer before (my old sansa didn't work with vista).

. . . as far as getting music for "free", uh, something like that would cost me my career if I was caught. So it's not worth it, especially since I can get most albums I want for around $5 through the music club. If I was 19 again, though, I have no doubt that my attitude would be different.

 

[speeds]

I had an iPod but I didn't enjoy their software. iTunes is a nuisance.

Now I'm using a 2GB flash Sony Walkman. Perfect for the gym. Pretty inexpensive, too, so I'd recommend.

 

[bbwMax]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Jun 3 2008, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I had an iPod but I didn't enjoy their software. iTunes is a nuisance.

Now I'm using a 2GB flash Sony Walkman. Perfect for the gym. Pretty inexpensive, too, so I'd recommend.</div>

Yeh My Ipod is messed up. It won't sync it and because there isn't any physical damage I.E Cracked screen they won't fic it

 

[speeds]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Jun 3 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Jun 3 2008, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I had an iPod but I didn't enjoy their software. iTunes is a nuisance.

Now I'm using a 2GB flash Sony Walkman. Perfect for the gym. Pretty inexpensive, too, so I'd recommend.</div>

Yeh My Ipod is messed up. It won't sync it and because there isn't any physical damage I.E Cracked screen they won't fic it

</div>

iPod's are nice MP3 players but at the end of the day I think a flash player is just easier for music. Plug it in, drag your files, it charges as you do this, and be done with it.

 

[Chutney]

I'll back up the Creative Zen. I've had one for a couple years now and its suited me just fine. I'm a lot like Dumpy, in that I just want my mp3 player for music, I don't intend to buy much music, and I like to listen to complete albums rather than shuffle through my music. And its fit all of those needs. Also, considering how much of a klutz I can be, its been pretty durable.

 

[ghoti]

How's that Clip doing, Dumpy?

I've been reading a lot about it and apparently that little guy has one of the best processors ever in a digital player. The sound quality is supposed to be phenomenal.

Even with the stock phones the sound quality should be very good.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

limewire=AIDS.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How's that Clip doing, Dumpy?

I've been reading a lot about it and apparently that little guy has one of the best processors ever in a digital player. The sound quality is supposed to be phenomenal.

Even with the stock phones the sound quality should be very good.</div>

I like it a lot. I have about 120 albums on it, which is just about the limit. The only drawbacks are that it is hard to read the display in daylight, and the clip-on attachment sometimes falls off. I can't recall if you mentioned those weaknesses or I read about them separately, but they are pretty well-known. I use it with a pair of clip-on Phillips headphones. I'd defnitiely recommend it to someone who wants an MP3 player to exercise with.

My piano teacher even gave me a Bon Jovi mix to load onto it. Sweet!

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 24 2008, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I like it a lot. I have about 120 albums on it, which is just about the limit. The only drawbacks are that it is hard to read the display in daylight, and the clip-on attachment sometimes falls off.</div>

I have some headphones where the cord is too short to put the player in my pants pocket. Is the clip-on attachment good enough to put on my shirt or a cap or something?

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 24 2008, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I like it a lot. I have about 120 albums on it, which is just about the limit. The only drawbacks are that it is hard to read the display in daylight, and the clip-on attachment sometimes falls off.</div>

I have some headphones where the cord is too short to put the player in my pants pocket. Is the clip-on attachment good enough to put on my shirt or a cap or something?
</div>

yes, I attach it to my shorts when I am running and it doesn't come off. When I drop the player on the ground (when I'm holding it in my hand, or about to put it on the counter, etc.) the clip-on attachment will snap off. It fits into a little groove, so it doesn't break--it is just more of an annoyance than anything.

 

[cpawfan]

I'm considering getting a 2 GB Clip

What do you folks recommend I rip my CD's to for use on it?

 

[lukewarmplay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 24 2008, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How's that Clip doing, Dumpy?

I've been reading a lot about it and apparently that little guy has one of the best processors ever in a digital player. The sound quality is supposed to be phenomenal.

Even with the stock phones the sound quality should be very good.</div>

I like it a lot. I have about 120 albums on it, which is just about the limit. The only drawbacks are that it is hard to read the display in daylight, and the clip-on attachment sometimes falls off. I can't recall if you mentioned those weaknesses or I read about them separately, but they are pretty well-known. I use it with a pair of clip-on Phillips headphones. I'd defnitiely recommend it to someone who wants an MP3 player to exercise with.

My piano teacher even gave me a Bon Jovi mix to load onto it. Sweet!
</div>

Piano teacher? Do you guys have a piano?

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 2 2008, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm considering getting a 2 GB Clip

What do you folks recommend I rip my CD's to for use on it?</div>

Not sure I understand the question . . . :-(

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Aug 3 2008, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 24 2008, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How's that Clip doing, Dumpy?

I've been reading a lot about it and apparently that little guy has one of the best processors ever in a digital player. The sound quality is supposed to be phenomenal.

Even with the stock phones the sound quality should be very good.</div>

I like it a lot. I have about 120 albums on it, which is just about the limit. The only drawbacks are that it is hard to read the display in daylight, and the clip-on attachment sometimes falls off. I can't recall if you mentioned those weaknesses or I read about them separately, but they are pretty well-known. I use it with a pair of clip-on Phillips headphones. I'd defnitiely recommend it to someone who wants an MP3 player to exercise with.

My piano teacher even gave me a Bon Jovi mix to load onto it. Sweet!
</div>

Piano teacher? Do you guys have a piano?
</div>

yeah--you?

 

[cpawfan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Aug 4 2008, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 2 2008, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm considering getting a 2 GB Clip

What do you folks recommend I rip my CD's to for use on it?</div>

Not sure I understand the question . . . :-(
</div>

I added a couple of missing words.

Basically, what rate & format do you rip your CD's?

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Aug 4 2008, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 2 2008, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm considering getting a 2 GB Clip

What do you folks recommend I rip my CD's to for use on it?</div>

Not sure I understand the question . . . :-(
</div>

I added a couple of missing words.

Basically, what rate & format do you rip your CD's?
</div>

I use windows media audio format (using windows media player) at 64 kbps. I think it was recommended by my brother in law who is into (and teaches) computer stuff. At that rate, I can't hear much difference in sound quality vs. the higher rate, and you can fit a lot more music. For me, it's all about cramming as much music on my player as possible.

Of course, he also recommended I get Vista, which is a piece of crap.

 

[lukewarmplay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Aug 4 2008, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Aug 3 2008, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 24 2008, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How's that Clip doing, Dumpy?

I've been reading a lot about it and apparently that little guy has one of the best processors ever in a digital player. The sound quality is supposed to be phenomenal.

Even with the stock phones the sound quality should be very good.</div>

I like it a lot. I have about 120 albums on it, which is just about the limit. The only drawbacks are that it is hard to read the display in daylight, and the clip-on attachment sometimes falls off. I can't recall if you mentioned those weaknesses or I read about them separately, but they are pretty well-known. I use it with a pair of clip-on Phillips headphones. I'd defnitiely recommend it to someone who wants an MP3 player to exercise with.

My piano teacher even gave me a Bon Jovi mix to load onto it. Sweet!
</div>

Piano teacher? Do you guys have a piano?
</div>

yeah--you?

</div>

no, i have only jealousy.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Aug 6 2008, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Aug 4 2008, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Aug 3 2008, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 24 2008, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 24 2008, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How's that Clip doing, Dumpy?

I've been reading a lot about it and apparently that little guy has one of the best processors ever in a digital player. The sound quality is supposed to be phenomenal.

Even with the stock phones the sound quality should be very good.</div>

I like it a lot. I have about 120 albums on it, which is just about the limit. The only drawbacks are that it is hard to read the display in daylight, and the clip-on attachment sometimes falls off. I can't recall if you mentioned those weaknesses or I read about them separately, but they are pretty well-known. I use it with a pair of clip-on Phillips headphones. I'd defnitiely recommend it to someone who wants an MP3 player to exercise with.

My piano teacher even gave me a Bon Jovi mix to load onto it. Sweet!
</div>

Piano teacher? Do you guys have a piano?
</div>

yeah--you?

</div>

no, i have only jealousy.
</div>

I play like crap, though.

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_War_Poet_ForLife @ Jul 24 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>limewire=AIDS.</div>

So true War Poet...

For God's sake, listen to this man. :[

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Aug 10 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_War_Poet_ForLife @ Jul 24 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>limewire=AIDS.</div>

So true War Poet...

For God's sake, listen to this man. :[
</div>

I think I have aids

But I haven't used it in a month!

 

[ghoti]

Today's Woot. Worth it at twice the price. Awesome!

 

[JE]

I always had problems renaming things on the Sansa. Also, I don't know if this is common, but it plays tunes in alphabetical order instead of the order they appear on the album. I've got a lot of CDs that have "alternate recordings" of certain tunes, and it is annoying to hear two versions of the same song come on after each other, and then two versions of the next tune, etc.
The Sansa also doesn't work with Vista. OK, nothing works with Vista. But in order to add songs to it, I have to take out an old laptop that has XP on it.

Oh shit, there's no way to re-order tracks on a Sansa? I got one earlier in the week. Guess it was cheap for a reason.