REPORT: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

[Bosco]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

Man if we get Hinrich + Millsap... I will be

 

[Reep]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

No you can't. You cannot change an offer sheet once it is submitted.

My original post got burried, but according to Coon:

A signed offer sheet can be rescinded within the seven day waiting period if all three parties (the player and the two teams) agree.

Link

 

[Ed O]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

It doesn't sound like it is quite the poison pill the Vikings did a few years ago, but putting the money up front is the idea. The Vikings contract stated Hutchinson MUST be the highest paid offensive lineman on the team.

I think MN actually was even MORE devious... they put in some sort of payment if a certain number of games in the regular season were played in the state of MN... something like that. Something that the Seahawks literally could NOT match.

Hutchinson fucked up by not letting the Seahawks match the spirit of the deal. The team would have been much better off these past few years with him, rather than Nate Burleson, who they essentially spent the Hutch money on. I would bet that Steve would have been happier winning in Seattle, too...

Ed O.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

Why would Millsap agree (and he has to)? Presumably the offer the Jazz would give him would be less. And if he agreed to sign, he has to know he's screwing the Jazz.

Utah's perspective: to gain an asset such as Travis Outlaw
Millsap's perspective: to help his old and/or current team as long as he doesn't lose any money
Portland's perspective: to lessen the cap blow by including an outgoing player and/or lessen the first year salary amount (since Utah could sign-and-trade him with annual increases of 10%)

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Toronto was able to get their MLE by involving Orlando in the S/T. I think something similar can be done here.

That's not how I understand it. Are you sure that Toronto has it? Or, are you sure that they never renounced it?

 

[RickyRubio]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

My original post got burried, but according to Coon:



Link

I stand corrected.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

That's not how I understand it. Are you sure that Toronto has it? Or, are you sure that they never renounced it?

They definitely have it according to Hollinger. If I recall correctly, the MLE only has to be renounced when a team is about to sign someone with their cap space. At the moment, Portland hasn't signed anyone yet, so technically, they still have their MLE. Toronto was able to keep the MLE because they got Hedo in a trade with ORL, they didn't sign him upfront.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Per Larry Coon:

If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

I believe Toronto was not under the cap prior to the new year starting (July 1st) due to their cap holds. They never needed to renounce the mid-level.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

I think MN actually was even MORE devious... they put in some sort of payment if a certain number of games in the regular season were played in the state of MN... something like that. Something that the Seahawks literally could NOT match.

Hutchinson fucked up by not letting the Seahawks match the spirit of the deal. The team would have been much better off these past few years with him, rather than Nate Burleson, who they essentially spent the Hutch money on. I would bet that Steve would have been happier winning in Seattle, too...

Ed O.

Not to take this too off topic, but Ruskell fucked up by putting the transition tag on Hutch in the first place. Should have Franchised him right out of the gate. We still haven't recovered from Hutch's departure.

As far as the poison pill goes, the Minny deal was WAY more devious, and then we did it right back to them for Burleson. I think Minny made out better in that deal.

 

[B-Roy]

I believe Toronto was not under the cap prior to the new year starting (July 1st) due to their cap holds. They never needed to renounce the mid-level.

Were they?

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

none have been renounced yet... its all theory right now &7.7 mil cap space with Kopo and Freeland and Claver

show us a NBA transaction report where we renounced anything yet? not even LeFrentz or Frye

technically we are over the cap and still have the MLE and other exceptions

Gotta go. But, I'm fairly certain we needed renounce all of those exceptions prior to July 1st. I'll have to find something concrete on this unless someone else has something definitive.

It's not fair for Portland to be able to use our cap space AND have our traded-player exceptions, bi-annual, and mid-level exceptions.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

.It's not fair for Portland to be able to use our cap space AND have our traded-player exceptions, bi-annual, and mid-level exceptions.

It's REALLY not fair that Houston received extra cap space because of Yao's injury in time to sign Trevor Ariza. A mind-boggling decision by the NBA IMO.

 

[Denny Crane]

They definitely have it according to Hollinger. If I recall correctly, the MLE only has to be renounced when a team is about to sign someone with their cap space. At the moment, Portland hasn't signed anyone yet, so technically, they still have their MLE. Toronto was able to keep the MLE because they got Hedo in a trade with ORL, they didn't sign him upfront.

Per Larry Coon:



I believe Toronto was not under the cap prior to the new year starting (July 1st) due to their cap holds. They never needed to renounce the mid-level.

I don't think the Blazers get an MLE this year.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20

20. How do exceptions count against the cap? Does being under the cap always mean that a team has room to sign free agents? Do teams ever lose their exceptions?

If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32). A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

So being under the cap does not necessarily mean a team has room to sign free agents. For example, assume the cap is $49.5 million, and a team has $43 million committed to salaries. They also have a Mid-Level exception for $5 million and a Traded Player exception for $5.5 million. Even though their salaries put them $6.5 million under the cap, their exceptions are added to their salaries, putting them at $53.5 million, or $4 million over the cap. So they actually have no cap room to sign free agents, and instead must use their exceptions.

Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room. So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).

Starting January 10 of each season, the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual, Larry Bird, Early-Bird and Non-Bird exceptions begin to reduce in value. For example, if there are 180 days in the season, then these exceptions (if they are still unused) reduce by 1/180 of their initial value each day starting January 10. If a team uses their $5 million Mid-Level exception on February 1, then the exception is actually worth $4,361,111.

The Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions may be lost entirely, or the team may never receive them to begin with. This happens when their team salary is so low that when the exceptions are added to the team salary, the sum is still below the salary cap. If the team salary is below this level when the exception arises, then the team doesn't get the exception. If the team salary ever drops below this level during the year, then any exceptions they had are lost.

For example, with a $49.5 million salary cap, assume it's the offseason, and a team has $41 million committed to salaries, along with a Mid-Level exception for $5 million, a Traded Player exception for $2.5 million, and an unrenounced free agent whose free agent amount is $2 million. Their salaries and exceptions total $50.5 million, or $1 million over the cap. What if their free agent signs with another team? The $2 million free agent amount comes off their cap, so their team salary drops to $48.5 million. This total is below the cap so the team loses its Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions.

There is logic behind this. The whole idea behind an "exception" is that it is an exception to the rule which says a team has to be below the salary cap. In other words, an exception is a mechanism which allows a team to function above the cap. If a team isn't over the cap, then the concept of an exception is moot. Therefore, if a team's team salary ever drops this far, its exceptions go away. The effect is that a team may have either exceptions or cap room, but they can't have both.

 

[The Professional Fan]

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20

20. How do exceptions count against the cap? Does being under the cap always mean that a team has room to sign free agents? Do teams ever lose their exceptions?

If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32). A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

So being under the cap does not necessarily mean a team has room to sign free agents. For example, assume the cap is $49.5 million, and a team has $43 million committed to salaries. They also have a Mid-Level exception for $5 million and a Traded Player exception for $5.5 million. Even though their salaries put them $6.5 million under the cap, their exceptions are added to their salaries, putting them at $53.5 million, or $4 million over the cap. So they actually have no cap room to sign free agents, and instead must use their exceptions.

Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room. So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).

Starting January 10 of each season, the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual, Larry Bird, Early-Bird and Non-Bird exceptions begin to reduce in value. For example, if there are 180 days in the season, then these exceptions (if they are still unused) reduce by 1/180 of their initial value each day starting January 10. If a team uses their $5 million Mid-Level exception on February 1, then the exception is actually worth $4,361,111.

The Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions may be lost entirely, or the team may never receive them to begin with. This happens when their team salary is so low that when the exceptions are added to the team salary, the sum is still below the salary cap. If the team salary is below this level when the exception arises, then the team doesn't get the exception. If the team salary ever drops below this level during the year, then any exceptions they had are lost.

For example, with a $49.5 million salary cap, assume it's the offseason, and a team has $41 million committed to salaries, along with a Mid-Level exception for $5 million, a Traded Player exception for $2.5 million, and an unrenounced free agent whose free agent amount is $2 million. Their salaries and exceptions total $50.5 million, or $1 million over the cap. What if their free agent signs with another team? The $2 million free agent amount comes off their cap, so their team salary drops to $48.5 million. This total is below the cap so the team loses its Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions.

There is logic behind this. The whole idea behind an "exception" is that it is an exception to the rule which says a team has to be below the salary cap. In other words, an exception is a mechanism which allows a team to function above the cap. If a team isn't over the cap, then the concept of an exception is moot. Therefore, if a team's team salary ever drops this far, its exceptions go away. The effect is that a team may have either exceptions or cap room, but they can't have both.

Duh

 

[rocketeer]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

It's REALLY not fair that Houston received extra cap space because of Yao's injury in time to sign Trevor Ariza. A mind-boggling decision by the NBA IMO.

did the blazers get an injury exception for oden? i don't think they did.

i really don't understand the decision to essentially give the rockets a 2nd mle because yao is hurt, especially when it doesn't rule out the possibility of yao playing this year and can be used for more than a one year contract.

 

[B-Roy]

I don't think the Blazers get an MLE this year.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20

20. How do exceptions count against the cap? Does being under the cap always mean that a team has room to sign free agents? Do teams ever lose their exceptions?

If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32). A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

So being under the cap does not necessarily mean a team has room to sign free agents. For example, assume the cap is $49.5 million, and a team has $43 million committed to salaries. They also have a Mid-Level exception for $5 million and a Traded Player exception for $5.5 million. Even though their salaries put them $6.5 million under the cap, their exceptions are added to their salaries, putting them at $53.5 million, or $4 million over the cap. So they actually have no cap room to sign free agents, and instead must use their exceptions.

Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room. So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).

Starting January 10 of each season, the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual, Larry Bird, Early-Bird and Non-Bird exceptions begin to reduce in value. For example, if there are 180 days in the season, then these exceptions (if they are still unused) reduce by 1/180 of their initial value each day starting January 10. If a team uses their $5 million Mid-Level exception on February 1, then the exception is actually worth $4,361,111.

The Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions may be lost entirely, or the team may never receive them to begin with. This happens when their team salary is so low that when the exceptions are added to the team salary, the sum is still below the salary cap. If the team salary is below this level when the exception arises, then the team doesn't get the exception. If the team salary ever drops below this level during the year, then any exceptions they had are lost.

For example, with a $49.5 million salary cap, assume it's the offseason, and a team has $41 million committed to salaries, along with a Mid-Level exception for $5 million, a Traded Player exception for $2.5 million, and an unrenounced free agent whose free agent amount is $2 million. Their salaries and exceptions total $50.5 million, or $1 million over the cap. What if their free agent signs with another team? The $2 million free agent amount comes off their cap, so their team salary drops to $48.5 million. This total is below the cap so the team loses its Mid-Level and Traded Player exceptions.

There is logic behind this. The whole idea behind an "exception" is that it is an exception to the rule which says a team has to be below the salary cap. In other words, an exception is a mechanism which allows a team to function above the cap. If a team isn't over the cap, then the concept of an exception is moot. Therefore, if a team's team salary ever drops this far, its exceptions go away. The effect is that a team may have either exceptions or cap room, but they can't have both.

Yeah I understand this. I'm just wondering how Toronto was able to keep their MLE. (Which was also answered)

 

[Idog1976]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

Just saw this on ESPN...

Updated: July 9, 2009, 6:37 PM ET
Sources: Boozer could go to Chicago
Comment Email Print Share
By Marc Stein and Chad Ford
ESPN.com

Another major multiteam trade might be looming in the NBA with the Portland Trail Blazers, Utah Jazz and Chicago Bulls having discussed a deal that would be headlined by Carlos Boozer and Kirk Hinrich, according to NBA front-office sources.

Sources stressed to ESPN.com that no deal was imminent Thursday and that both Portland and Utah are still evaluating multiple trade scenarios. But two sources with knowledge of the three-team proposal confirmed that there have been substantive talks regarding a trade that would land Boozer in Chicago, Hinrich in Portland and Tyrus Thomas in Utah.

A deal featuring those main components would deliver the elite low-post scorer that the Bulls have been chasing for years in Boozer and furnish Portland with a lead guard in Hinrich that the Blazers are known to rate highly as a potential backcourt mate for Brandon Roy. It's possible that other players would be added to balance out the transaction from a salary-cap perspective if the three teams elect to take these talks further.

Yet even if this deal collapses, sources say it is clear that the Jazz are becoming increasingly open to the possibility of moving Boozer now to increase their financial flexibility to re-sign restricted free agent Paul Millsap.

Despite fresh reports Thursday about the Blazers weighing whether to sign Millsap to an offer sheet, Hinrich is the player Portland prefers, according to one source close to the process, after the Blazers came so close last week to landing the versatile Hedo Turkoglu.

Boozer has only one season left at $12.7 million after declining the option in his contract to become an unrestricted free agent July 1. It's believed that the Jazz are determined to keep Millsap but are concerned about the luxury-tax consequences of signing him to a long-term deal.

Marc Stein and Chad Ford are senior NBA writers for ESPN.com.

If we only get Hinrich out of this and blow our capspace that would be almost WORSE then just signing Hedo. Here's what I want and I say don't deal with the Jazz let them eat Lux Tax if they want Millsap that bad.

Hinrich\Blake\Bayless
Roy\Rudy
Battier\Batum\Webster
LMA\Millsap\Pendergraph
Oden\LMA\Pendergraph

First we sign Millsap. Then we trade Outlaw, Blake, Picks, Euro's and cash to Chicago for Hinrich (I'm asuming Chicago is reasonable and not like Chicago fans that are convinced that Hinrich is the 2nd coming). I would consider Rudy straight across, but we wouldn't have the capspace for that. Then trade Joel for Battier.

The key is to get Chicago to smell the Coffee and realize that Hinrich is vastly overpaid and stands in the way of their future. I'm not SUPER stoked about Hinrich but he is the best available PG that is realistic. If Chicago and Utah want us to blow our capspace on Hinrich then I think we should stand pat. Seriously. F Chicago and Utah if that's the case why help them?

 

[Ed O]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

did the blazers get an injury exception for oden? i don't think they did.

i really don't understand the decision to essentially give the rockets a 2nd mle because yao is hurt, especially when it doesn't rule out the possibility of yao playing this year and can be used for more than a one year contract.

Did Portland APPLY for one?

The team would have got an exception of about $2.5m. What good would that have done us?

I think that the league giving a disable exception to the Rockets makes a ton of sense and is entirely reasonable... it's what the exception is FOR.

Ed O.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

Did Portland APPLY for one?

The team would have got an exception of about $2.5m. What good would that have done us?

I think that the league giving a disable exception to the Rockets makes a ton of sense and is entirely reasonable... it's what the exception is FOR.

Ed O.

I actually think they applied for one and got it, but never used it. But I could be wrong. I know they applied for one for someone in the last few years and just never ended up using it.

 

[hasoos]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

You keep saying this but only OKC, Portland, and Memphis have cap space left. Memphis doesn't have enough and OKC I don't believe wants to spend their money right now. If they did they would have been able to offer as much /more than Portland could to Millsap/Lee.

You only have to be 1$ under the cap to make a lopside trade. If you are under the cap, you are allowed to do it, it is that simple.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

I actually think they applied for one and got it, but never used it. But I could be wrong. I know they applied for one for someone in the last few years and just never ended up using it.

And it appears you are right.

http://www.blazersedge.com/story/2007/10/14/32221/097

It mentions it there, although the Oregonlive.com article it links to is gone.

Ed o.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

You only have to be 1$ under the cap to make a lopside trade. If you are under the cap, you are allowed to do it, it is that simple.

What do you mean?

The whole point of a lopsided trade is that one side has enough money to absorb the difference in salary (with the standard percentage buffers). A team being a single buck under the salary cap doesn't mean they can take on whatever salary they want via lopsided trades.

Ed O.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

Did Portland APPLY for one?

The team would have got an exception of about $2.5m. What good would that have done us?

I think that the league giving a disable exception to the Rockets makes a ton of sense and is entirely reasonable... it's what the exception is FOR.

Ed O.

Actually, I recall that they did apply and receive it, but let it expire without using it. They basically couldn't find anyone that cheap that they thought would help the team.

BNM

 

[BengalDuck]

Fuck... if we turn Millsap in to Hinrich I'll be pissed.

 

[rocketeer]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

I think that the league giving a disable exception to the Rockets makes a ton of sense and is entirely reasonable... it's what the exception is FOR.

Ed O.

i guess. it just seems weird to me. obviously that's what the exception is for, but if it's a one year thing shouldn't the exception be limited to a year as well? yao's out one year so the rockets get ariza for 5 years?

 

[Reep]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

What do you mean?

The whole point of a lopsided trade is that one side has enough money to absorb the difference in salary (with the standard percentage buffers). A team being a single buck under the salary cap doesn't mean they can take on whatever salary they want via lopsided trades.

Ed O.

I read it to mean Hasoos was saying you could make a $1 lop-sided trade if you are $1 under the cap. Obviously, you would need more to make it practical.

 

[Reep]

Fuck... if we turn Millsap in to Hinrich I'll be pissed.

Remember that it is really Utah's choice not ours.

 

[MARIS61]

Once I realized it was Paul, not Ronnie, Milsap, it made more sense to me.

He'll fit right in.

Hinrich is crap, and not what we need.

 

[BlazersBlood]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

It doesn't sound like it is quite the poison pill the Vikings did a few years ago, but putting the money up front is the idea. The Vikings contract stated Hutchinson MUST be the highest paid offensive lineman on the team.

It also stated that he must play 50% of his games in Minnesota for the season or the contract becomes 100% guaranteed.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Re: Millsap offer official now. Sent to Utah.

It also stated that he must play 50% of his games in Minnesota for the season or the contract becomes 100% guaranteed.

That was a stone cold GANGSTA contract!