Report: Unnamed NBA players linked to Biogenesis clinic scandal

[BigGameDamian]

Also when you use PED's or any other drug like this, Should you stop using it the drug will usually work against you.

 

[Denny Crane]

Well, then I guess the folks who run the professional sports leagues have the Free Will to want to run them in a way that doesn't compromise a player's long term health for a short term improvement in performance. Athletes have the Free Will to decide to agree to abide by the rules, or break them and potentially suffer the consequences.

But they don't run them in a way that doesn't compromise their health. The lifetime expectancy of an NFL player is in his 50s.

http://strengthplanet.com/other/15-surprising-facts-about-world-class-athletes.htm

9. What is the life expectancy of world class athletes?

Not so good. The average elite athlete will die by the age of 67. That is considerably lower then the 76 year life expectancy of the average American. Do you want to hear something that is really scary? According to the NFL Players Association, the average life expectancy of an NFL player is 58 years of age.

(The guys are seriously well paid, though. That's the choice they make)

 

[PapaG]

Does that mean my kids can cheat on tests to get into a better college, to get a better job than they probably deserve? Cheating is cheating, whether you agree it should be or not is different.

If they can afford a tutor, while other kids can't, is that a competitive advantage?

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Why do people keep calling sports "natural" and "nature"?

Sports aren't nature, people.

People do things other people don't want to do to get ahead all the time. That's how shit works. That's how this should work. New ways to get better at things are found all the time, there's nothing wrong with using them, they're just as "natural" as sports are.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Isn't it really about the theory of sport? For me, it's about natural human potential, not about drugging yourself up as much as possible to see what the scientific human potential is.

Cycling for me is the best example. You see a ride like Floyd Landis did in Stage 17 of the 2006 TdF or Tyler Hamilton's Stage 16 breakaway with a broken collarbone and are blown away by the strength of their spirit, of their ability to assert their will, to conquer pain and fatigue. Then you find out later those performances were a lie, because it wasn't a level playing field.

Sure it was fun watching Bonds and McGuire battle for the home run title at the turn of the century, but it diminished what Babe Ruth and Roger Maris accomplished.

If people want to roid up, I suggest there be a different league for those players, much like there is a natural bodybuilding circuit. Some may wish to watch the scientific human potential, but I will always prefer natural human potential, with everyone playing by the same rules.

How is taking a drug to get better different than going on a crazy diet or using some crazy exercise equipment that most people don't want to do? Should those diets and exercises be against the rules too? They aren't "natural".

 

[PtldPlatypus]

How is taking a drug to get better different than going on a crazy diet or using some crazy exercise equipment that most people don't want to do? Should those diets and exercises be against the rules too? They aren't "natural".

Are you being intentionally obtuse? You don't see a difference between changing the food someone eats or the movements they use to condition their muscles, and the ingestion or injection of a synthetic substance designed to allow their bodies to do something it would not be able to do otherwise?

 

[oldmangrouch]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? You don't see a difference between changing the food someone eats or the movements they use to condition their muscles, and the ingestion or injection of a synthetic substance designed to allow their bodies to do something it would not be able to do otherwise?

But if the primary benefit is faster healing - what's wrong with that? In that respect, how is HGH any different from cortisone or pain-killers?

If they go after people for illegal drugs, or even using restricted drugs without a prescription - that's fair game.

 

[Draco]

lifetime expectancy of an NFL player is in his 50s.

http://strengthplanet.com/other/15-surprising-facts-about-world-class-athletes.htm

9. What is the life expectancy of world class athletes?

Not so good. The average elite athlete will die by the age of 67. That is considerably lower then the 76 year life expectancy of the average American. Do you want to hear something that is really scary? According to the NFL Players Association, the average life expectancy of an NFL player is 58 years of age.

(The guys are seriously well paid, though. That's the choice they make)

That is some great evidence for the harmful effects of PEDs. If they were taken out of sports like football maybe life expectancy would be closer to that of the average American.

 

[BlazerWookee]

No way James and Howard aren't PEDing in some way, shape, or form.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But if the primary benefit is faster healing - what's wrong with that?

You actually believe that?

 

[Denny Crane]

That is some great evidence for the harmful effects of PEDs. If they were taken out of sports like football maybe life expectancy would be closer to that of the average American.

It's not the peds, it's 300lb guys running into 300lb guys repeatedly for years.

 

[oldmangrouch]

You actually believe that?

Yes, I do. McGwire is the classic example. He was always a great hitter - nagging injuries held him back through much of his career.

It keeps coming back to the same points: if HGH or TRT or a host of other steroids had no legit medical use or were highly dangerous, your Dr couldn't prescribe them to YOU. If they are legit, legal medical treatments for YOU, why are they illegal for players?

 

[BigGameDamian]

Why do people keep calling sports "natural" and "nature"?

Sports aren't nature, people.

People do things other people don't want to do to get ahead all the time. That's how shit works. That's how this should work. New ways to get better at things are found all the time, there's nothing wrong with using them, they're just as "natural" as sports are.

I could not disagree more with you. Drugs like roids and PED's ruin sports. Why do players need to take these? To inhance there playing ability? No, I don't buy that, It's all about money and money alone. So your telling me that someone like LeBron James couldn't dominate the NBA or put up triple double stats without taking these PED's?

 

[BBert]

It's not the peds, it's 300lb guys running into 300lb guys repeatedly for years.

I read something years ago, maybe don't recall the details exactly, it was talking about guys working on their lower bodies, but it said the impact of NFL linemen coming off the line and blasting into each other was something like a 30-MPH impact. Repeatedly. I may not have that exactly right, but it seems plausible. And it may be even worse now with improved training regimes, and yes, PEDs.

 

[jlprk]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? You don't see a difference between changing the food someone eats or the movements they use to condition their muscles, and the ingestion or injection of a synthetic substance designed to allow their bodies to do something it would not be able to do otherwise?

You're against synthetic substances like modern medicine?

According to the NFL Players Association, the average life expectancy of an NFL player is 58 years of age. (The guys are seriously well paid, though. That's the choice they make)

My 2nd-best friend in the 7th grade, Roger Stillwell, later a Chicago Bears starter, didn't get to spend his landmark lawsuit winnings against the team doctor. He died in his early 50s. What kills them isn't accumulated bangs against 300-pound bodies. It's enduring pain from 1-time career-ending snaps under 300-pound bodies. And subsequent decades of medicine and pain killers. So yes, it's the synthetic substances, but taken afterward by prescription, not the ones before retirement, which kill NFL players early.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You're against synthetic substances like modern medicine?

That's not even close to being what I said.

 

[jlprk]

Why shouldn't people who constantly ingest synthetic medicine to improve body performance be imprisoned, forced to perjure themselves in front of committees of senators, etc.?

 

[MARIS61]

Yes, I do. McGwire is the classic example. He was always a great hitter - nagging injuries held him back through much of his career.

It keeps coming back to the same points: if HGH or TRT or a host of other steroids had no legit medical use or were highly dangerous, your Dr couldn't prescribe them to YOU. If they are legit, legal medical treatments for YOU, why are they illegal for players?

They are not legit, and very few doctors actually prescribe them, and then only in very specific instances.

One excellent reason they don't belong in sports lies in the ridiculous advantage they give someone over his/her competitor. They actually completely remove the "sport" from sports. You may as well introduce androids into the game.

In 1927, with the nation cheering him on, Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs.

In 1961, under a yearlong barrage of hate mail and death threats, Roger Maris hit 61 home runs.

It is now 2013, and no un-juiced player has ever touched those phenomenal records. Roids make keeping record books meaningless. They make watching the game a pointless waste of time.

 

[MARIS61]

Yes, I do. McGwire is the classic example. He was always a great hitter - nagging injuries held him back through much of his career.

Mcgwire was always a liar and a cheater. In 2010, McGwire publicly admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs throughout his career.

 

[MARIS61]

But they don't run them in a way that doesn't compromise their health. The lifetime expectancy of an NFL player is in his 50s.

This may be more due to the fact that NFL players aren't exactly the brightest bulbs on the tree in the first place. Mostly they're big, dumb guys who never had to actually get an education to get a diploma. Many cannot read or write. After football is no longer employing them, most of these guys can barely hold down a job pushing a mop.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Wade Boggs did drugs to better himself also. So did Don Mattingly.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I use Post Enhancing Drugs.

They don't seem to be working.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

I use Post Enhancing Drugs.

They don't seem to be working.

Maybe you should try HCPialis (helps with rookie/nerd bashing) or Vimagsra (makes any trade possible).

 

[BBert]

I thought this thread was about Penis Enhancing Drugs?

 

[RR7]

If many use HGH and other substances as a way for their body to bounce back faster from injuries, and needing less rest, I just don't see a huge issue between that and other aspects of modern medicine. How is it a world different than than platelet enrichment blood spinning treatment?
As for "guys in the old days" like Ruth, Maris, etc., in that era, we also saw pitcher's careers end from torn elbow ligaments, whereas now a guy can take a year off with Tommy John surgery, and be back close to where he was before. Those players never would have been able to continue playing were it not for advancement in medicine. As well as advancement in training, nutrition knowledge, etc.

 

[oldmangrouch]

They are not legit, and very few doctors actually prescribe them, and then only in very specific instances.

One excellent reason they don't belong in sports lies in the ridiculous advantage they give someone over his/her competitor. They actually completely remove the "sport" from sports. You may as well introduce androids into the game.

In 1927, with the nation cheering him on, Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs.

In 1961, under a yearlong barrage of hate mail and death threats, Roger Maris hit 61 home runs.

It is now 2013, and no un-juiced player has ever touched those phenomenal records. Roids make keeping record books meaningless. They make watching the game a pointless waste of time.

And with modern knee surgery Gayle Sayers' career might have lasted another 5 years and placed him higher on the all-time lists. Does that make it unfair for modern players to have surgery? How many pitchers have had their career saved by Tommy John surgery? Where do you draw the line?

 

[e_blazer]

Seems to me that the line is between legitimate medical treatment for an illness or injury vs. Taking substances for the sole purpose of enhanced performance without much regard for health impacts.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I thought this thread was about Penis Enhancing Drugs?

So it's the white and Asian players....I knew it

 

[BigGameDamian]

They are talking about suspending A-Rod for life in baseball.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

All professional athletes have some aches and pains. Some like to heal the natural way or play with the pain, others will take PEDs for their "recovery" so they can come back faster and stronger.

Athletes who talk honestly about PEDs will say that their reaction time and ability to see the ball (thinking baseball interviews) increases with PEDs even though the aging process is suppose to slow that down