Politics Republicans exempt their own insurance from their latest health care proposal

[Denny Crane]

You are confused.

barfo

I think you are. Your positions on issues change 180 degrees depending on who's president, instead of what's right or you believe in.

 

[barfo]

People who attempted to force Clinton down the throats of Americans are at fault.

Nobody attempted to force Clinton down the throats of Americans any more than people attempted to force Bernie, or Trump, or Jill Stein down our throats.

I'm allowed to complain about that, just like everything else.

Ok, that's fair. I do not mean to deny you the right to complain about whatever you want to complain about.
I mean, you can cut your nose off to spite your face, and then complain about not being able to smell. It's a free country.

You wasted your vote by voting for Clinton.

That's true. I didn't get much out of the vote, other than the satisfaction of knowing that I did what I could to stop Trump from being President.

Don't like the logic I'm using? stop trying to use it on me.

I like your logic fine.

barfo

 

[barfo]

I think you are. Your positions on issues change 180 degrees depending on who's president, instead of what's right or you believe in.

No, you just think my position changed. I wanted single payer then, I want single payer now.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Nobody attempted to force Clinton down the throats of Americans
barfo

Tell that to the superdelegates.

 

[barfo]

Tell that to the superdelegates.

It's funny because it's irrelevant and misleading?

Clinton won the majority of the votes in the primaries, and the majority of the pledged delegates, in addition to the majority of the superdelegates.
Eliminate the superdelegates, she still won.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

It's funny because it's irrelevant and misleading?

Clinton won the majority of the votes in the primaries, and the majority of the pledged delegates, in addition to the majority of the superdelegates.
Eliminate the superdelegates, she still won.

barfo

The superdelegates most certainly swayed the primaries in Clinton's favor. The drumbeat of the media was Clinton can't lose, which depresses voter turnout for her opponents. It most certainly affected any momentum Sanders might get from the start.

That and the dirty dealings the DNC had to put down Sanders' effort, witness WikiLeaks and DCLeaks emails.

 

[Denny Crane]

No, you just think my position changed. I wanted single payer then, I want single payer now.

barfo

Even this support for single payer is hypocritical.

Like I said, you didn't care about printing $trillions and borrowing $10T more to pay for similar worthless things.

"Where does this money that the Feds help with come from?"
-- barfo

 

[barfo]

Even this support for single payer is hypocritical.

"Where does this money that the Feds help with come from?"
-- barfo

No idea what point you think you are making, sorry. You think it is hypocritical to observe that federal spending comes from tax dollars?

barfo

 

[barfo]

No, I'm the piece of shit.

Hey, we are all pieces of shit. But if you put us together just right, we form a big pile of shit.

barfo

 

[H.C.]

Nobody attempted to force Clinton down the throats of Americans any more than people attempted to force Bernie, or Trump, or Jill Stein down our throats.



Ok, that's fair. I do not mean to deny you the right to complain about whatever you want to complain about.
I mean, you can cut your nose off to spite your face, and then complain about not being able to smell. It's a free country.



That's true. I didn't get much out of the vote, other than the satisfaction of knowing that I did what I could to stop Trump from being President.



I like your logic fine.

barfo

You got satisfaction out of the billionaire class democratic candidate fix? okay, thanks Donna Brazile

You like my logic? Hm, I guess I should have used green font so you could figure out I was mocking you.

 

[barfo]

Hm, I guess I should have used green font so you could figure out I was mocking you.

I don't judge posts by the color of their font.

barfo

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Cool! How many people die directly because of this? A million maybe?

Americans are so shitty that we'll watch a million people die?

It's been years now and nobody has explained to me how this was supposed to work and still have "insurance companies"

Car insurance doesn't cover pre existing damage.

Buy a beat up car, by full coverage and take it to a bodyshop and make them restore it from front to back.

What would happen when everyone did that? Geico would be out of business or they'd have to charge 1200 dollars a month to everyone regardless of their driving record.

 

[Denny Crane]

No idea what point you think you are making, sorry. You think it is hypocritical to observe that federal spending comes from tax dollars?

barfo

Only ~ 2/3rds comes from tax dollars.

You talk like a fiscal conservative again. But when your guys were printing money and running up the debt, you were cheering them on.

 

[MarAzul]

Sure, but the elderly and the sick don't tend to pay a lot of taxes, so it's back to the young and healthy again.
Sure, if a company takes on part of the risk, the premium cost goes down. Similarly, if the government takes on part of the risk, the premiums go down. Single payer for the win.
barfo

You are losing track barfo. The self insured companies don't pay premiums, they take the risk which is low since they screen the prospective employees, Physical exams you know.
So those employees (the largest pool in the country) do not offset many of the sick and lame. This falls on the people that Buy insurance, the young, the self employed, the small business and their employees.
The result is, the ObamaCare burden falls on these groups rather unfairly, the only ones really affected by the law to force them to purchase insurance at inflated prices. The reality is, it is tax and the tax targets a minor portion of the population very unfairly. I think the Chief Justice called it a Tax, right? But not everyone is burdened by it. Not me, although Obama sure intended to do so
when force many of us retirees off the corporate self insured system. Are you affected?

 

[Denny Crane]

A few years back, I suggested to the CEO of the ~50 person company I worked at that he should see if he couldn't just pay the clinic two blocks away a monthly fee for the employees' health care needs. Then sock away a few months' insurance premiums to cover expensive procedures - like one guy's appendix removal, or to see specialists.

For the $1M a year in saved premiums, we could basically self insure and everyone gets the care they need.

The clinic charged about $100 for basic office visit. They'd probably take a couple thousand a month for all our basic services.

 

[barfo]

You are losing track barfo. The self insured companies don't pay premiums, they take the risk which is low since they screen the prospective employees, Physical exams you know.

Actually it isn't as black and white as you paint it. A company can choose, and many do, to take on part, but not all, of the risk.

So those employees (the largest pool in the country) do not offset many of the sick and lame. This falls on the people that Buy insurance, the young, the self employed, the small business and their employees.

Of course some of the sick and lame are dependents of the employed, and thus are covered by employer insurance.

The result is, the ObamaCare burden falls on these groups rather unfairly, the only ones really affected by the law to force them to purchase insurance at inflated prices. The reality is, it is tax and the tax targets a minor portion of the population very unfairly. I think the Chief Justice called it a Tax, right? But not everyone is burdened by it. Not me, although Obama sure intended to do so
when force many of us retirees off the corporate self insured system. Are you affected?

I'm not directly affected by Obamacare, no. I'm on employer insurance.

I agree with you that the two-class system we have now, employment-related and non-employment related, is not great. Single payer would be much better, and much more fair.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Only ~ 2/3rds comes from tax dollars.

You talk like a fiscal conservative again. But when your guys were printing money and running up the debt, you were cheering them on.

If you thought I was making a distinction between tax and borrowing, you misunderstood.

I'm fine with government taxing to pay for healthcare. I'm fine with government borrowing to pay for healthcare. I think healthcare is important.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

If you thought I was making a distinction between tax and borrowing, you misunderstood.

I'm fine with government taxing to pay for healthcare. I'm fine with government borrowing to pay for healthcare. I think healthcare is important.

barfo

Apparently so does MarAzul, but you complained that covering people would cost money.

 

[barfo]

Apparently so does MarAzul, but you complained that covering people would cost money.

No, I didn't. You misread my post.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

A few years back, I suggested to the CEO of the ~50 person company I worked at that he should see if he couldn't just pay the clinic two blocks away a monthly fee for the employees' health care needs. Then sock away a few months' insurance premiums to cover expensive procedures - like one guy's appendix removal, or to see specialists.

For the $1M a year in saved premiums, we could basically self insure and everyone gets the care they need.

The clinic charged about $100 for basic office visit. They'd probably take a couple thousand a month for all our basic services.

Yeah, there are a number of ways that this could be made better. The company you speak of joining up with a few more to more effectively share the risk. Perhaps even across stale lines where like minded people could help each other. Individual State governments have been screw these possibility up for years now. Then comes Obama Care! Like how bad can you screw it up if you try real hard?

 

[barfo]

Yeah, there are a number of ways that this could be made better. The company you speak of joining up with a few more to more effectively share the risk. Perhaps even across stale lines where like minded people could help each other. Individual State governments have been screw these possibility up for years now.

Some would call that 'States Rights'. But I guess you want the federal government to run everything, hmm?

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

I guess you want the federal government to run everything

You don't believe this.

Some would call that 'States Rights

Yes, I suppose it is the right of the States to screw things up. Well they did a pretty good job in this area for some time now.
Congress just may be right to push it back on the states now that the issue has everyone's attention.
Perhaps the folks with demand a little better this turn.

 

[barfo]

You don't believe this.

Of course I don't, I'm just teasing.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

No, I didn't. You misread my post.

barfo

Not at all. You backpedaled into a borrow and spend position.

So how about food? Food is just as important as health care, or people starve. Why not single payer for the groceries?

How about housing? Housing is just as important as health care, or people die from exposure. Why not single payer for housing?

Arguments for single payer are just downright silly.

 

[barfo]

Not at all. You backpedaled into a borrow and spend position.

So how about food? Food is just as important as health care, or people starve. Why not single payer for the groceries?

How about housing? Housing is just as important as health care, or people die from exposure. Why not single payer for housing?

Arguments for single payer are just downright silly.

Whatever.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I like Denny's idea, everyone should have a million dollars and just pay cash for services at their local clinic.

 

[MarAzul]

I like Denny's idea, everyone should have a million dollars and just pay cash for services at their local clinic.

This seems like a way to make a million dollars as valuable as a penny.
Sort of like the Dems using Freddy and Fanny so that everyone has a house. It worked for a while until houses weren't worth much more than the penny.
We have sort of made Health Insurance coverage in that mold. Just because you have it doesn't mean you can use it to get care. Not even worth a penny.