Revisiting a Batum S&T

[BrianFromWA]

This is not meant to be an "I Told You So" thread, but more of a "has a year changed your mind?" question.

Big assumption, but let's assume that this rumored trade was somehow magically on the table TODAY--knowing what you know about this last season, one year further into contracts, etc.:

Batum (with 3 years and about 34M left on his contract) for Derrick Williams (2yrs, 11.3M, RFA-eligible), MIN's 2013 pick (which is pre-lotto slotted at #9) and a future MIN pick.

would the principals change their minds? Is Olshey more or less apt to take that deal? Kahn? Would YOU do it if you were Olshey?

 

[Eastoff]

Didn't Derrick Williams have a terrible season?

 

[RR7]

Willimas still hasn't shown much, and would still be behind our best player as he is in Minnesota. The pick wouldn't have been at 9, with players on the roster changing. Also, I don't believe it was ever 2 1sts and Williams.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I'm still happy with retaining Batum. He's still very young with room to grow and is a solid starting SF right now. The increased assists were nice, even though his gambling could be maddening at times. I'm glad the Blazers didn't trade him for the hypothetical Wolves offer. Doesn't Batum have more like 3yrs/34m remaining?

 

[BrianFromWA]

yes, that was a typo. Thanks!

 

[B-Roy]

I think the rumors was either or on Williams or the pick. Not Williams and the pick PLUS additional compensation. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Rhal]

Nope, Williams is at best a stretch four and with this draft there pick isn't even that great. If it was next years draft I'd think about it but at the moment it would just be another hole in our lineup we would have to fill.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

I would rather have Batum.

Interesting what we could fetch with the 9th and 10th pick in the draft though... plus the 3 second rounders.

That could be good trade material.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I thought Batum was having a pretty solid season until he started getting beat up. I thought the fact many of those who were against the re-signing of Batum were pretty silent until he started battling injuries and began struggling was a pretty good sign that he was playing well.

 

[RR7]

I thought Batum was having a pretty solid season until he started getting beat up. I thought the fact many of those who were against the re-signing of Batum were pretty silent until he started battling injuries and began struggling was a pretty good sign that he was playing well.

Agreed.
I think it's integral if you're building around a PG as your top player, that you have another player that can get easy baskets for others, and can give you 5 APG. Absent that, you ask your PG to do way too much, IMO

 

[Reep]

My only complaint with Batum in the second half was the limited number of shot attempts. But, it could have easily been because of the injuries and he knew he couldn't contribute like that. Given the strong first half I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I still like him in this lineup, especially if he takes Stotts's words to heart and ups his effort on "D".

 

[magnifier661]

Only thing I was disappointed with was his tentativeness on shooting. I think he needs to really be aggressive and try and get to the line.

 

[RoyToy]

He really didn't add anything to his game last season. Still the same streaky player who always seems to have a problem with consistency and being aggressive. There are too many times where it looks like he's sleeping out there.

Batum is always either riding a hot streak or playing poorly. Being primarily an outside scorer he will always be this way. The problem here is that people think his hot streaks are his normal level of play, but that's clearly not the case.

He also shot more 3's under Stotts than he did under Nate. People like to ignore this fact.

 

[RR7]

He really didn't add anything to his game last season. Still the same streaky player who always seems to have a problem with consistency and being aggressive. There are too many times where it looks like he's sleeping out there.

Batum is always either riding a hot streak or playing poorly. Being primarily an outside scorer he will always be this way. The problem here is that people think his hot streaks are his normal level of play, but that's clearly not the case.

He also shot more 3's under Stotts than he did under Nate. People like to ignore this fact.

Batum had more assists this season than he did in his entire career up to this point, how can you say he didn't add anything?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

This is not meant to be an "I Told You So" thread, but more of a "has a year changed your mind?" question.

Big assumption, but let's assume that this rumored trade was somehow magically on the table TODAY--knowing what you know about this last season, one year further into contracts, etc.:

Batum (with 3 years and about 34M left on his contract) for Derrick Williams (2yrs, 11.3M, RFA-eligible), MIN's 2013 pick (which is pre-lotto slotted at #9) and a future MIN pick.

would the principals change their minds? Is Olshey more or less apt to take that deal? Kahn? Would YOU do it if you were Olshey?

For me: Hell no. I like Batum, he's a guy any championship team needs (really good "glue guy"). We just need more pieces.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

He really didn't add anything to his game last season. Still the same streaky player who always seems to have a problem with consistency and being aggressive. There are too many times where it looks like he's sleeping out there.

Batum is always either riding a hot streak or playing poorly. Being primarily an outside scorer he will always be this way. The problem here is that people think his hot streaks are his normal level of play, but that's clearly not the case.

He also shot more 3's under Stotts than he did under Nate. People like to ignore this fact.

He shot more 3s because he played substantially more minutes. Batum is not the same player he has always been, he had a completely different role this season and brought a different game to the court.

I get the argument that he didn't live up to his contract (the Blazer have to match, you don't let a talent like Batum just walk). But to say this year he did add anything to his game when he handled the ball more than ever before and had a huge spike in assists, is simply not accurate.

 

[RoyToy]

He shot more 3s because he played substantially more minutes. Batum is not the same player he has always been, he had a completely different role this season and brought a different game to the court.

I get the argument that he didn't live up to his contract (the Blazer have to match, you don't let a talent like Batum just walk). But to say this year he did add anything to his game when he handled the ball more than ever before and had a huge spike in assists, is simply not accurate.

His assist numbers are inflated because he turns down open shots and passes it back out. It's just him continuing to be more and more passive.

Batum averaged 8min per game more this season than he did last season, from 30 to 38. His averages:

2012 FGA - 10.9
2013 FGA - 11.4

2012 3PTA - 4.6
2013 3PTA - 6.1

Basially over 50% of his of his total shots attempts in 2013 were 3pt attempts, up from 2012. And not only did he average more 3pt attempts per game last year, he shot it at a lower percentage (37%) compared to 2012 (39%).

Yeah, he really progressed this year

 

[RR7]

inflated assist numbers? ok. that just screams hate.

 

[RoyToy]

It's not taking stats at face value and actually looking at how he got those assists

 

[The_Lillard_King]

His assist numbers are inflated because he turns down open shots and passes it back out. It's just him continuing to be more and more passive.

Batum averaged 8min per game more this season than he did last season, from 30 to 38. His averages:

2012 FGA - 10.9
2013 FGA - 11.4

2012 3PTA - 4.6
2013 3PTA - 6.1

Basially over 50% of his of his total shots attempts in 2013 were 3pt attempts, up from 2012. And not only did he average more 3pt attempts per game last year, he shot it at a lower percentage (37%) compared to 2012 (39%).

Yeah, he really progressed this year

Funny. You use stats to prove your points when it comes to shots . . . but when it comes to assists, you throw the stat out by saying it is because he is more passive. (wish more players would be passive)

So use stats when they help you and explain them away when they work against you. By the way the stat you like to explain away:

2012 Ast 1.4
2013 Ast 4.9

And you say Batum hasn't "added anything to his game" . . . who is crazy?

 

[magnifier661]

I thought the 3 point shot vs the long two is worth more or some shit like that?

 

[RoyToy]

Funny. You use stats to prove your points when it comes to shots . . . but when it comes to assists, you throw the stat out by saying it is because he is more passive. (wish more players would be passive)

So use stats when they help you and explain them away when they work against you. By the way the stat you like to explain away:

2012 Ast 1.4
2013 Ast 4.9

And you say Batum hasn't "added anything to his game" . . . who is crazy?

His assist numbers were up, yes. But they were definitely a little inflated when you look at the way he got them (turning down wide open shots and kicking the ball back out). If that excites you then....

Batum didn't really make the leap that he should have this season after signing the contract. That's not really debatable.

 

[Rhal]

His assist numbers were up, yes. But they were definitely a little inflated when you look at the way he got them (turning down wide open shots and kicking the ball back out). If that excites you then....

Batum didn't really make the leap that he should have this season after signing the contract. That's not really debatable.

He was injured but you know this and you also take the stance of "No excusses!". He played pretty well the first 20 games of the season then his numbers dropped that is true. The way our offense is run Batum will always take most of his shots from 3 because of how Stotts spreads the offense out, the same will happen for Mathews as well.
Batum needs to work on Slashing more and his post ups as well as being more assertive offensively instead of attempting to set people up. He showed bigger flashes of being able to step up in a big way then at anytime prior to last year. He will earn that contract if he can stay healthy.

 

[RoyToy]

He was injured but you know this and you also take the stance of "No excusses!".

One if the all-time great winners in his sport yesterday:

"I don't talk about injuries," Jeter said. "I think talking about injuries is just making an excuse for yourself. The only reason I'm talking about this today is because I'm not playing. So when I come back, I won't talk about it again because you are either good enough to play or you are not. If you are good enough to play, then no one wants to hear about excuses.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/9211879/derek-jeter-new-york-yankees-says-return-2013

Beautifully said by The Captain.

 

[magnifier661]

He was injured but you know this and you also take the stance of "No excusses!". He played pretty well the first 20 games of the season then his numbers dropped that is true. The way our offense is run Batum will always take most of his shots from 3 because of how Stotts spreads the offense out, the same will happen for Mathews as well.

Batum needs to work on Slashing more and his post ups as well as being more assertive offensively instead of attempting to set people up. He showed bigger flashes of being able to step up in a big way then at anytime prior to last year. He will earn that contract if he can stay healthy.

I wish we could use the excuse of oden being injured like we are using on batum right now.

Fact is, there will come a time when the injury excuse can't be used. If batum keeps playing over seas and wears his body down like this every year, he will be too worn down to perform at the level of his contract.

Batum already said he's playing this summer again. This bothers me. He needs to work on strength and conditioning this summer. Instead, he's playing for France. No time to heal.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I reviewed Batum's game-log yesterday, identified his 20 worst games (based on bkref's "gmscr" stat, both overall and per minute). Of those, the worst was easily our second game of the year (we all remember that one, right?). 6 came during a 9-game stretch that was primarily a 7-game Eastern conference road trip, and all the rest came after his wrist injury.

Even including that one bad 9-game stretch, he was obviously significantly better before the injury than after. Between the bad stretch and the wrist injury, he had strung together 18 consecutive good games. I think it's unfair to malign him for inconsistency, when it seemed like he had finally found a groove before getting hurt.

 

[magnifier661]

I reviewed Batum's game-log yesterday, identified his 20 worst games (based on bkref's "gmscr" stat, both overall and per minute). Of those, the worst was easily our second game of the year (we all remember that one, right?). 6 came during a 9-game stretch that was primarily a 7-game Eastern conference road trip, and all the rest came after his wrist injury.

Even including that one bad 9-game stretch, he was obviously significantly better before the injury than after. Between the bad stretch and the wrist injury, he had strung together 18 consecutive good games. I think it's unfair to malign him for inconsistency, when it seemed like he had finally found a groove before getting hurt.

I'm not concerned about his skills, and if healthy, he would be a very important piece to our success. But the real question is "can he stay healthy playing a full 82 game season and for France?" And if we make the playoffs, that increases.

Personally I think it's really hard. This is what concerns me. I hope eventually he decides to take the summer off and work on strength and conditioning instead of playing for France.

 

[Pinwheel1]

For the most part we ere all thrilled to have kept him early in the season.

So what happened? I can't see any explanation other than he was hurt.
It was in deed frustrating to watch him late in the season because he obviously was not the same player. He just passed up too many opportunities to attack the rim.

On the positive side it looked to me like he tried to play through it. This is what we want from our
leaders. At the time we were still in the playoff chase.

On the negative side he got hurt......again. I am concerned that this will be an annual occurrence. Will it keep him from playing aggressive and attacking the rim? The hits take a toll on your body.

Next year is huge for Nic. If he stays healthy he was worth keeping. I do enjoy watching him play.

 

[oldguy]

One if the all-time great winners in his sport yesterday:



http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/9211879/derek-jeter-new-york-yankees-says-return-2013

Beautifully said by The Captain.

I don't recall Nic using injury as an excuse. He tried to play through. A lot of fans would appreciate that he hung in there and found ways to contribute....like those inflated assist numbers.

Some fans are pointing out the obvious, that he was hurt. I don't get the point of your quote at all.

Go Blazers

 

[magnifier661]

I don't recall Nic using injury as an excuse. He tried to play through. A lot of fans would appreciate that he hung in there and found ways to contribute....like those inflated assist numbers.

Some fans are pointing out the obvious, that he was hurt. I don't get the point of your quote at all.

Go Blazers

I am going to keep harping on the same thing. There comes a time when the injuries can't be an excuse, just like there was no justification for Roy to get his max contract.

Batum must stay healthy. He owes it to the team that gave him the large contract. I don't want to keep harping, but he needs to stop playing over seas and get healthy.