revisiting Kevin Pritchard

[PapaG]

For what it is worth, KP gave a tweet out to LA for making the all star team. Something tells me he is still close to players he knew during his Blazers days. Not sure if that means anything, but I think it tends to say he has a good report with athletes.

That was one of the criticisms of KP, though. That he was too close to players, and it clouded his judgement on contracts. From a business standpoint, it's a valid concern, IMO. Then again, he traded Blanky and Outlaw, "his guys", to the Clippers for Camby, which has clearly been a great trade for Portland.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not sure what results he should be measured on, though. He took over a roster that had no NBA talent, and within a few years, had that team winning 54 games. I agree with you 100% about the process, though. A process brings stability, and the great organizations in the NBA have both a process and stability.

The early results were great, but not getting past the first round and the current so-so team with no huge upside (which is obviously not all on Pritchard, as the organization hasn't done much good since) can reasonably be seen as unsuccessful. I think most people would evaluate GM "success" (ultimately, not immediately) as building a contender.

Which Pritchard almost did. They were on the verge of it when they lost to the Rockets in the playoffs. If Oden had not continued to get hurt and Roy had remained healthy, I have little doubt that the Blazers would have been long-term contenders.

 

[Ed O]

To me, that says more about the sad state of the franchise in terms of ownership than it says anything about Pritchard.

Since he left, the team has gone backward. Cho is tough to evaluate, although had Roy not completely disintegrated physically in almost no time at all, last year's acquisition of Wallace seemed smart at the time.

As for the David West acquisition, somebody evaluated how he fit into the team, and Indiana has certainly improved with him in the line-up compared to last season.

The Felton move, IMO, was in part because Paul Allen wanted a faster tempo, and the Crawford move, IMO, was desperation to try and somehow replace what Roy gave the team on the offensive end.

Outside of LMA, is there a contributing player on this roster that anybody expects to be in Portland two years from now? Batum seems likely, but Portland may have to overpay for him, based on what he shows at times.

The relates back to another thread, but what is the long-term plan? Is Oden even a part of it? Is there anybody within the organization with the job security to think about a long-term plan at this point? I just don't see it.

I don't know the answers to your questions, and I tend to agree with most of what you've posted here. I will point out that part of the reason the team went backwards after he left is because he didn't go a good job of adding players through the draft his last couple of years as Blazers' GM.

He might have had his hands tied and been forced to pass on Blair or to draft overseas guys instead of players that could help... I dunno.

Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

That was one of the criticisms of KP, though. That he was too close to players, and it clouded his judgement on contracts. From a business standpoint, it's a valid concern, IMO. Then again, he traded Blanky and Outlaw, "his guys", to the Clippers for Camby, which has clearly been a great trade for Portland.

Good point. I like his rapport with players because I think it attacts more players to want to come to the organization, but it did get him into truble as a GM.

 

[Ed O]

That said, I largely (not completely, but mostly) liked Pritchard's process and to me, that's the most important thing: having (in my eyes, at least) an intelligent process that you execute. Sometimes things still don't work out and you cash out a loser, so to speak. If people have a negative impression of Pritchard based on the end results, I can't entirely blame them. But I think the Blazers had a smart and dedicated GM in Pritchard who did many of the right things, at the time based on the information available then, but didn't get the right results. That position doesn't have any cognitive dissonance to me.

I agree that the process was good, but there's some expectation that some of the moves would pan out, right? I liked his approach GIVEN he was using information and expertise I did not have... which, presumably, he was. It's just that the expertise and information led to a series of wasted picks and wasted millions of dollars.

I would love to have someone with a process similar to KP that was able to use better source information or make smarter decisions to get better results. Maybe I'm asking too much, because the NBA is a tough thing to succeed in and many other teams want to do the same thing.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Good point. I like his rapport with players because I think it attacts more players to want to come to the organization, but it did get him into truble as a GM.

I might be drawing a blank, but which players came to Portland because of anything other than money?

Ed O.

 

[BrianFromWA]

More than the blame I give him for a team's performance 1.5 seasons after he's been fired.

Of the current players on the roster, Pritchard was around for LMA, Camby, Oden, and Batum. I'd argue that those are 4 out of the 5 best players on the team, because when Oden's been healthy, he's been a very good NBA player.

Cho brought in Wallace. Since then? It's hard to say who is making the moves, isn't it?

While I'm generally on PapaG's side in this thread, I think it's unfair not to point out that KP was also responsible for Armon, Babbitt, Claver and Pendy/Dante/Not Blair, which constitutes two of our bottom 5 players, one guy who's never been here (but had two season-ending injuries), one guy who's getting spot minutes in MEM, and one guy who's not in the league (who also has had two major injuries). Granted, you could say those were all guys picked between 16 and 33, but...

And I think all 29 other teams (including HOU with Ming and SAS with Duncan) would've picked Oden, and that's what everyone was reporting during the Summer of Honk. Now, MM's point that maybe all the teams didn't see the medical records is valid (I don't know one way or the other) and that if SAS would've seen major knee red flags or whatever they would've gone safe, I don't know. But it's revisionist to say that we gambled and more than a couple of teams wouldn't have taken Oden.

 

[Minstrel]

I will say that passing on Blair is probably the most ironic decision in Pritchard's Portland career. He built his team by taking risks, especially on health...yet passed on Blair presumably for health reasons (I don't know for sure that that's why, but it's probably why he, along with essentially every team in basketball, passed on him).

Did he feel burned by health risks and went overly cautious? Did Paul Allen feel burned by Pritchard's gambles on health risks and restrict him from that sort of thing? It would be interesting to know what happened with that. Not because it matters greatly (Blair is a nice player and would have been great value in the second round, but he's not a franchise-changer)...just because it clashes so oddly with Pritchard's history up to that point.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I might be drawing a blank, but which players came to Portland because of anything other than money?

Ed O.

Under KP's watch, I don't know (if any). Mainly players would come because of PA's money (although Camby was very active about not being traded and Crawford came here for less money).

But I do think having a GM that has good relations to players helps small market teams that can't outbid other clubs. Not trying to say KP did this, just that I think it would help a small market team (Blazers without PA)

Personally I think Indy is doing a good job right now . . . how much of that is KP is a good question as he isn't even GM.

KP talks a good game. I don't know if it comes across cheesy or sincere to players, but if you don't have the bankroll, hopefully you have a persuasive GM.

 

[Minstrel]

I agree that the process was good, but there's some expectation that some of the moves would pan out, right? I liked his approach GIVEN he was using information and expertise I did not have... which, presumably, he was. It's just that the expertise and information led to a series of wasted picks and wasted millions of dollars.

Well, some of the moves did work out. Batum worked out as health risk. Aldridge wasn't a health risk, but Pritchard took a risk by trading up for him. I think Pritchard aimed for upside all the time and the expectation should be that a couple would work out (because who drafts four or five stars in a short time)? The main problem is that the two best talents (Oden and Roy) were the ones who succumbed. If they were the ones who panned out, nothing else would matter.

I would love to have someone with a process similar to KP that was able to use better source information or make smarter decisions to get better results. Maybe I'm asking too much, because the NBA is a tough thing to succeed in and many other teams want to do the same thing.

I don't know if it's asking too much, but I think it's asking too much in the period of time Pritchard was with the Blazers. It's not like he was a long-term entrenched GM who never bothered to refine his system over a decade. He was around for like 5 years, and it took several years before anything was really known about the results, which is when he could have begun adjusting. He was gone soon after, though.

Maybe Indiana will reap the benefits of Pritchard's learning. I'd rather Pritchard had been retained and allowed to work on his process/system/what-have-you here. Because while he had not yet been wildly successful, I still think there aren't many GMs who are likely to be better.

 

[PapaG]

I agree that the process was good, but there's some expectation that some of the moves would pan out, right? I liked his approach GIVEN he was using information and expertise I did not have... which, presumably, he was. It's just that the expertise and information led to a series of wasted picks and wasted millions of dollars.

I would love to have someone with a process similar to KP that was able to use better source information or make smarter decisions to get better results. Maybe I'm asking too much, because the NBA is a tough thing to succeed in and many other teams want to do the same thing.

Ed O.

It's hard to know what really happened, though. Remember that starting around February in 2010, Pritchard got banished from his seat next to Paul Allen. A month or so later, Tom Penn was fired out of the blue. The cynic in me thinks that Penn and Pritchard were trying to wrestle influence away from Bert Kolde and Larry Miller, and had their agent force Portland's hand. Paul Allen didn't blink, and in a few months, they were both fired. The entire Cho thing really soured me on Paul Allen and Larry Miller, and from an organizational standpoint, I wonder what Penn and KP could have accomplished without the Yes Men who whisper in Paul Allen's ear.

If I have to blame one person in this organization outside of Paul Allen for the current state of the team, it's Larry Miller. He's the ultimate Yes Man, and I think a lot of the moves we've seen in terms of front office personnel have been influenced by his words and actions within the structure of the organization.

Funny thing is, Larry Miller has all but disappeared this year. Is he next to get shit-canned?

 

[PapaG]

While I'm generally on PapaG's side in this thread, I think it's unfair not to point out that KP was also responsible for Armon, Babbitt, Claver and Pendy/Dante/Not Blair, which constitutes two of our bottom 5 players, one guy who's never been here (but had two season-ending injuries), one guy who's getting spot minutes in MEM, and one guy who's not in the league (who also has had two major injuries). Granted, you could say those were all guys picked between 16 and 33, but...

And I think all 29 other teams (including HOU with Ming and SAS with Duncan) would've picked Oden, and that's what everyone was reporting during the Summer of Honk. Now, MM's point that maybe all the teams didn't see the medical records is valid (I don't know one way or the other) and that if SAS would've seen major knee red flags or whatever they would've gone safe, I don't know. But it's revisionist to say that we gambled and more than a couple of teams wouldn't have taken Oden.

I've always found it hard to believe that Pritchard ran that draft, and had the final say, after he had already been fired.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I've heard from a couple of people that LeGarie was the one involved in the "wresting influence", had Penn play PA against himself with the fake Timberwolves offer, then when PA found out about it he flipped on Penn and "banished" KP. Even at the Babbitt draft, "sources say" that PA gave KP a chance to ditch LeGarie and stay. KP declined.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I will say that passing on Blair is probably the most ironic decision in Pritchard's Portland career. He built his team by taking risks, especially on health...yet passed on Blair presumably for health reasons (I don't know for sure that that's why, but it's probably why he, along with essentially every team in basketball, passed on him).

Did he feel burned by health risks and went overly cautious? Did Paul Allen feel burned by Pritchard's gambles on health risks and restrict him from that sort of thing? It would be interesting to know what happened with that. Not because it matters greatly (Blair is a nice player and would have been great value in the second round, but he's not a franchise-changer)...just because it clashes so oddly with Pritchard's history up to that point.

I'm not so sure he passed on Blair multiple times becuase of health concerns. I just don't think Blair as a KP kind of player. Pritchard likes guys who are long and versatile that can play and defend multiple positions. He never drafted a wide-body banger the entire time he was here (and no, Jeff Perndegraph is not a wide-body banger). He passed on both Millsap and Blair multiple times. He always went for length over width (insert crude comment here), not just in the players he drafted, but also the ones acquired via trade (Channing Frye, Marcus Camby, etc.).

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not so sure he passed on Blair multiple times becuase of health concerns. I just don't think Blair as a KP kind of player. Pritchard likes guys who are long and versatile that can play and defend multiple positions. He never drafted a wide-body banger the entire time he was here (and no, Jeff Perndegraph is not a wide-body banger). He passed on both Millsap and Blair multiple times. He always went for length over width (insert crude comment here), not just in the players he drafted, but also the ones acquired via trade (Channing Frye, Marcus Camby, etc.).

He did acquire, ahem, Ike Diogu.

 

[PapaG]

I've heard from a couple of people that LeGarie was the one involved in the "wresting influence", had Penn play PA against himself with the fake Timberwolves offer, then when PA found out about it he flipped on Penn and "banished" KP. Even at the Babbitt draft, "sources say" that PA gave KP a chance to ditch LeGarie and stay. KP declined.

Probably a good move on KP's part, considering the dysfunction in the front office since Pritchard was fired. The only person of authority left in the entire organization with any respect for their basketball experience around the NBA is McMillan, and if he's fired, I'm not not sure what the future holds. Cho and KP were both hired by competitors, Cho immediately, and KP after taking some time doing other things while still being paid by Paul Allen.

 

[blazedanugz]

I think he was the best GM we've had in the last 15 years. He had no way to predict injuries to Roy & Oden. If we had them both healthy we'd be a definite title contending team right now.

couldnt predict??? like kevin pritchard you need to do some research before you do/say something stupid. roy and oden both had serious injury questions

and thats coming from a person whos all time favorite player is #7

 

[RR7]

what was Oden's serious injury question?

 

[blazedanugz]

what was Oden's serious injury question?

he broke his hip when he younger....injured in college with a broken wrist. one leg was an inch longer than the other which cant be good for a guy over 7 feet tall. there were questions he was too briddle, which ended up being true.

 

[RoyToy]

The win total has only gone down since KP was fired

Fact

 

[The_Lillard_King]

The win total has only gone down since KP was fired

Fact

The win total has gone down since Steve Blake was traded.

Fact (I think)

 

[MickZagger]

The win total has only gone down since KP was fired

Fact

lol. Black and white worlds are fun to live in.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I don't know how much harm was done by firing KP - maybe very little. OTOH, you would be hard pressed to present any evidence that firing him HELPED the team.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He did acquire, ahem, Ike Diogu.

Wide body? Yes.

Banger? No.

BNM

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

As long as we are piling on; I actually think one of his biggest mistakes was the 2009 draft. KP always said that they identify the guy they want and do whatever is necessary to get him. And I think they really wanted Ty Lawson, one of the most efficient offensive players ever in the NCAA and a guy Portland had worked out two years in a row. And a guy at a position that the Blazers desperately needed help. And yet they didn't do whatever was necessary to get him. They seemed so surprised when he wasn't there when they picked that they then chose Victor Claver.

 

[Minstrel]

Wide body? Yes.

Banger? No.

Well, I know you detested him as a player, but I'd say he was a banger in that he recorded solid Rebound Rates (and much better than solid defensive Rebound Rate). He also often had good to very good scoring efficiency because he did all his scoring on the inside. He wasn't anything like a great scorer, but what scoring he did do was "banger" type scoring.

I should clarify that I don't think Diogu is nearly as good as Blair, but I think he qualifies as a "wide-body banger."

 

[PapaG]

Blair isn't a difference-maker and has regressed each season. His Reb% this year is 14.3, which puts him in the company of players like these guys, and while his PER is 16, that's inflated by a USG% of 21.4.

His WS/48 is .12. I'm trying to figure out why Pop still starts him, considering Splitter is a much better player at this point, and it's really not even close. Hell, Splitter's Reb% is higher than Blair's this year, his PER is higher (19.4), his USG is lower (20), and his WS/48 is .177.

Across the board, he is outperforming Blair, yet Blair gets 21.7 mpg, while Splitter is at 21.3. Hopefully Pop doesn't figure out and he starts giving Splitter 5 more mpg at Blair's expense.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Well, I know you detested him as a player, but I'd say he was a banger in that he recorded solid Rebound Rates (and much better than solid defensive Rebound Rate). He also often had good to very good scoring efficiency because he did all his scoring on the inside. He wasn't anything like a great scorer, but what scoring he did do was "banger" type scoring.

I should clarify that I don't think Diogu is nearly as good as Blair, but I think he qualifies as a "wide-body banger."

Yeah, I suppose I should give the guy a break. I'm definitely biased against him based on his performance in Portland. He flat out sucked. His stats, both regular and advanced, were awful - the worst of his career. A low post player with a FG% of .316? It don't get much shittier than that. His PER (11.4) and WS/48 (.057) were the lowest of his career. The guy was (is and always will be) a complete black hole - which I'm willing to tolerate in a back-up power forward - if he can actually make some shots. He had a USG% of 21.8 with a 0.316 FG% and an AST% of .000. He also sucked on defense (111 DRtg).

But is was an extremely small sample size. Unfortunately, it reinforced what I saw when he was on the court. He was a ball hog who was going to force up a bad shot, no matter what, and didn't play defense. I saw it in the preseaon, where he actually got some decent minutes, and then again in his limited regular season minutes. I didn't see him "banging" with anyone, just forcing up bad shots and not playing defense. I was probably too hard on him when he was here. I wanted Paul Millsap and I got Ike Diogu. I guess that pretty much guaranteed I was going to be disappointed.

BNM