Richard Jefferson's basketball IQ and 4th quarter play

[purplehaze89]

RJ's basketball IQ has completely deteriorated this season. It's not like he was any good with the decision making to begin with, but this guy completely kills the flow of the offense with pathetic all around play in the 4th quarter. i'm not talking about scoring - although he chokes in the 4th quarter anyway - i'm talking about defense, passing, rebounding.

This guy's best season for the Nets was when he averaged 19.5 ppg on 11 shots and chipped in 7 boards and 4 assists. He even played average defense that year. Now, he is a shoot first idiot who provides nothing else.

 

[jtballa2o1]

is it me or does rj seem to be gud for at least 2 stupid mistakes (such as a blowen layup, failed defense assignment, bad pass) a game??

 

[Netsfan99]

He was never known as a "Go-to-guy"....only Vince Carter has had that label through out his career. RJ just doesnt have the talent and the superior offensive skills to handle 4th Qtr alone when VC is on the bench, thus, Nets have been struggling in the start of the 4th QTR. This year RJ has nothing but a "Shoot First" mentality. Some people say this year hes having good stats, but lets talk about the assists. 2.0 assists per game?. And the original poster is right, RJ's best season was in 05-06 when he averaged 19 PPG and was very effective, he was "The Robin/Side Kick" on the offensive side. Thats his role in the NBA, and should be. But RJ as a go to guy? Never, he doesnt have what it takes. That is Vince Carter's role in the NBA.

 

[jtballa2o1]

im fed up, i agree ^^^ if the team struggles in the beginning of the 4th with out vince y doest r coach try something different?? this happen twice in less than 24 hours not acceptable, and y did rj get the ball in those last 48 seconds tonight?? we all knew he was gonna do something stupid with it i love how they keep vince out of the play....

 

[razel231]

Let me add however that for all his faults, there are some on the board who believe he should be kept on the team in the event the team goes on a total rebuild mode since he is still fairly young and may have some upside left to him. I am not one of them. He will always be a second option at best and will never be considered an all star. I think a time will be coming where he will be put out there as bait for a trade.

 

[jtballa2o1]

u dont bulid around RJ there is only 2 ppl on this team u can bulid around and that is Vince And Devin Harris

 

[farouq710]

I echo what the other posters have said and have always felt this way. RJ can't consistently carry a team. I honestly feel its Frank's fault into trying to force RJ to become the number one option or at least equal in that regard to Vince. RJ was complaining last year of Vince always getting the ball, well he's had many chances to show that he'd do a better job at being the hero in the end but so far, VC has had a lot more 4th quarter game winners and heroics than RJ has. When Vince gets the ball and is allowed to be the focal point he gets everyone else involved. I hope Frank realizes this soon.

 

[pegs]

RJ for Outlaw, picks, filler, more young talent. Please.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

I wouldn't mind his offensive ineptitude, if his defense didn't blow.

 

[Jizzy]

he's a third scorer, a guy who needs to feed off a big man or a passing PG, making him your main focal point on offense is a recipe for doom since he has no handle and no jumpshot

 

[Black Republican]

Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.

 

[NJNetz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

It's not like we're winning with him, anyway.

 

[Netsfan99]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 23 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

It's not like we're winning with him, anyway.
</div>

Yes but without Vince, Nets wouldnt win any games.

 

[NJNetz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netsfan99 @ Mar 23 2008, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 23 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

It's not like we're winning with him, anyway.
</div>

Yes but without Vince, Nets wouldnt win any games.
</div>


Who cares? I don't want a player around who decides it's time to get busy with 10-12 games left in the season.

 

[dino33]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 24 2008, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netsfan99 @ Mar 23 2008, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 23 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

It's not like we're winning with him, anyway.
</div>

Yes but without Vince, Nets wouldnt win any games.
</div>


Who cares? I don't want a player around who decides it's time to get busy with 10-12 games left in the season.
</div>

youre right about tht... but the rest of the team thinks its still not time to get busy..

 

[Netsfan99]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ Mar 23 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 24 2008, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netsfan99 @ Mar 23 2008, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 23 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

It's not like we're winning with him, anyway.
</div>

Yes but without Vince, Nets wouldnt win any games.
</div>


Who cares? I don't want a player around who decides it's time to get busy with 10-12 games left in the season.
</div>

youre right about tht... but the rest of the team thinks its still not time to get busy..
</div>

Agreed.

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

I'm glad VC is playing well. It ups his trade value.

VC does nothing at the end of games except chuck up back bricking fade aways.

Who one the Toronto series last year? With both defense and offense?

And who turned the in critical game vs the Cavs?

You Vince Carter homers are just sitting their waiting for RJ to have a bad game to jump on him. That is what is truly pathetic.

You people are too ignorant to look at the BODY OF WORK throughout a CAREER.

For all his talent, Vince Carter has NEVER had the ability to sustain DESIRE. Vince Carter has not proven he can carry jack sh*t. After the KMart trade, RJ carried the team with no Kidd, no Carter. Buford was the starting 2 guard at that time. Jaques Vaughn was the starting point guard. The Nets had Eric Williams at the, with that guy YOU hate, Collins, at center.

After Carter came, the Nets had Kidd back and returning to form when then got into the playoffs and swept in 4 by the Heat. You really think Carter could have took the Nets to the playoffs without Kidd?

 

[purplehaze89]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Mar 23 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

I'm glad VC is playing well. It ups his trade value.

VC does nothing at the end of games except chuck up back bricking fade aways.

Who one the Toronto series last year? With both defense and offense?

And who turned the in critical game vs the Cavs?

You Vince Carter homers are just sitting their waiting for RJ to have a bad game to jump on him. That is what is truly pathetic.

You people are too ignorant to look at the BODY OF WORK throughout a CAREER.

For all his talent, Vince Carter has NEVER had the ability to sustain DESIRE. Vince Carter has not proven he can carry jack sh*t. After the KMart trade, RJ carried the team with no Kidd, no Carter. Buford was the starting 2 guard at that time. Jaques Vaughn was the starting point guard. The Nets had Eric Williams at the, with that guy YOU hate, Collins, at center.

After Carter came, the Nets had Kidd back and returning to form when then got into the playoffs and swept in 4 by the Heat. You really think Carter could have took the Nets to the playoffs without Kidd?
</div>

Do you really think Kidd could have taken the Nets into the playoffs without Carter? Get real. Oh and learn some English while you are at it.

What does this have to do with Carter anyway? This is a thread about RJ.

 

[NJNetz]

^^
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

That's why Carter is involved in the thread. If you don't like hearing the negatives, then don't bring up Carter in every thread.

 

[purplehaze89]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 23 2008, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

That's why Carter is involved in the thread. If you don't like hearing the negatives, then don't bring up Carter in every thread.
</div>

 

[Balla 15]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Mar 23 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Mar 23 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where are the guys who wanted to get rid of VC? Without him, we wouldn't be able to beat a Rec team.</div>

I'm glad VC is playing well. It ups his trade value.

VC does nothing at the end of games except chuck up back bricking fade aways.

Who one the Toronto series last year? With both defense and offense?

And who turned the in critical game vs the Cavs?

You Vince Carter homers are just sitting their waiting for RJ to have a bad game to jump on him. That is what is truly pathetic.

You people are too ignorant to look at the BODY OF WORK throughout a CAREER.

For all his talent, Vince Carter has NEVER had the ability to sustain DESIRE. Vince Carter has not proven he can carry jack sh*t. After the KMart trade, RJ carried the team with no Kidd, no Carter. Buford was the starting 2 guard at that time. Jaques Vaughn was the starting point guard. The Nets had Eric Williams at the, with that guy YOU hate, Collins, at center.

After Carter came, the Nets had Kidd back and returning to form when then got into the playoffs and swept in 4 by the Heat. You really think Carter could have took the Nets to the playoffs without Kidd?
</div>

Lol RJ definitely carreid the Nets to a 2-11 record on terrible FG%s and lots of turnovers. Our mistakes for not giving him props where props are due :roll:

 

[Netsfan99]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>VC does nothing at the end of games except chuck up back bricking fade aways.</div>

Vince has had more game winners than RJ has had 30 point games in his career.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Who one the Toronto series last year? With both defense and offense?</div>


VC was the main factor in games 3 and 4, and also 5 despite they lost the game. RJ came up big in game 1 and 6. Thats it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>For all his talent, Vince Carter has NEVER had the ability to sustain DESIRE. Vince Carter has not proven he can carry jack sh*t. After the KMart trade, RJ carried the team with no Kidd, no Carter. Buford was the starting 2 guard at that time. Jaques Vaughn was the starting point guard. The Nets had Eric Williams at the, with that guy YOU hate, Collins, at center.</div>

RJ carried the team without Kidd and Carter? Yeah 22 PPG on .420%...for "33" games.....thats not really "Carrying" in my books. And its not like they were winning or anything. They were loosing almost every game. But who averaged 27 PPG on amazing 3 point field % that same season? Yeah he was with Kidd, but RJ would never ever average 27 PPG with that specific field goal % with Kidd. It's not even an opinion, its a fact.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>After Carter came, the Nets had Kidd back and returning to form when then got into the playoffs and swept in 4 by the Heat. You really think Carter could have took the Nets to the playoffs without Kidd?</div>

Or you can say would Kidd have gone to the playoffs without VC?


Say what you want about VC, but when it comes offensive skills wise, theres a reason VC is an 8 time all-star and RJ is a....0-time All-star..

 

[NJNetz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>theres a reason VC is an 8 time all-star and RJ is a....0-time All-star..</div>

I didn't want to get involved but that is absolutely hilarious. He gets chosen by fans because he's an exciting player. At the All-Star you want to see crazy crossovers, dunks etc. He brings that...once in a while. Half of the times he was selected; he didn't even deserve it. There was one season where he only played 5-10 games, and still ended up being selected as an allstar. Wtf?

 

[Netsfan99]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 23 2008, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>theres a reason VC is an 8 time all-star and RJ is a....0-time All-star..</div>

I didn't want to get involved but that is absolutely hilarious. He gets chosen by fans because he's an exciting player. At the All-Star you want to see crazy crossovers, dunks etc. He brings that...once in a while. Half of the times he was selected; he didn't even deserve it. There was one season where he only played 5-10 games, and still ended up being selected as an allstar. Wtf?
</div>

Atleast he got selected right? and last 2 all-star selections he was selected by the coaches, not the fans. Was RJ ever selected by the coaches? Oh wait, never.

By the way, I was talking about OFFENSIVE skills wise.

Richard Jefferson Career PPG = 17.0 PPG

Vince Carter Career PPG = 24.0 PPG.



Lol im not going to go on furthur with this, shouldnt even be comparing the two players. Lets get back to RJ and this thread.

 

[NJNetz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Atleast he got selected right?</div>

It's an ALL-STAR game. It counts towards NOTHING.

 

[Netsfan99]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Mar 23 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Atleast he got selected right?</div>

It's an ALL-STAR game. It counts towards NOTHING.
</div>

Calm down, and i assume i proved my point about offensive abilities.

Any how, i feel bad for RJ. Hes a good player, but i could never see him as the Go-to-guy.

 

[MaxaMillion711]

back on topic please people....

i too think RJs play in the 4th has been sub par. he talks a big game. but hes just in a bad stretch right now.

 

[danxcr]

this is what RJ's problem is.... HE THINKS he is the best player on the team. he thinks he is the kobe bryant, lebron james, heck even jordan of the nets. he thinks the team needs him to be that primary scorer. he doesnt think VC is it. to him hes jordan and vc is pippen... hes lying to himself and its costing us games, and you kno what frank does about it? NOTHING hes ok with it. cuz frank is not a real coach, hes a nice guy, and he gets along with players, but its ok to bang heads with your players as long as it results in wins... like whats wrong if frank goes to RJ and says DAMMIT RJ your not the best talent on this team, there is no "I" in TEAM...

lol im just rambling... ok im goin to stop..





PS frank sux

 

[dino33]

RJ is not a bad offensive player... but sometimes i feel he is forcing things.. he averages 2 assists and 2 rebounds....

carter averages 5 assists 5 rebounds.... Vince is more all rounded than RJ.. when RJ struggles scoring he has nothing left... when carter struggles scoring he still has rebounds defensive plays and assists....

i dont mean to compare the two but i feel that RJ is jacking up too many shots.... when he plays team ball and contribute in all the areas rather than only shooting the team plays better...

personally i rather see him traded for some defensive/shooting swingman...and picks, some guy LIKE prince who can play perimeter defence as well as shoot the 3..