Ricky Rubio Thoughts

[Crimson the Cat]

Correct, which makes it silly to me to trade away two proven productive players along with an older version of Rubio for a player that may take 4 years (or longer) to develop into an elite PG. The timing just isn't right for Rubio in terms of where the team is at right now. Plus, Blake was berated for allowing Brooks and Lowry to penetrate, and Rubio is an even worse perimeter defender at this point.

By losing Rudy, Travis and Sergio, is it really a set back?

You still have Blake, Brandon, Batum, Aldridge, Oden and Joel. You're replacing Sergio and Rudy with Bayless and Webster. You still have your cap space, a traded player exception, the #24 pick, our 2nd rounders, Frye, and Joel Freeland's rights to help improve the team further.

I still see us as a sure Playoff team, given the improvements all our existing players will likely make.

I don't know. As I already said, I'm torn. I question whether a move such as this is even necessary. I'd sorely miss Rudy, but I just don't think the loss will hurt us in the short term and the benefits in the long term would be awesome.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If you can get him without giving up a ton of value then sure I think you could take Rubio and attempt to groom him for the future, but I just don't see Portland giving away two or three players and taking back a bad contract just to get yet another rookie point guard.

If you are looking at getting the most bang for the buck, then think veteran with proven track record of "good" starter level play, and think of guys that you know have a complimentary NBA game. Imagine if Rubio has the same troubles as Sergio (shooting and can't manage the half-court offense) and we're right back to where we started, only worse because you've likely given up some really good players that helped get you to 54 wins.

Rubio last year would have been great, this year? Not as much.

 

[ehizzy3]

i dont think rudy, travis, and sergio even get you an all star pg....trade 3 bench players for an all star, if a deal ever comes up like that, they better do it.

 

[PapaG]

By losing Rudy, Travis and Sergio, is it really a set back?

You still have Blake, Brandon, Batum, Aldridge, Oden and Joel. You're replacing Sergio and Rudy with Bayless and Webster. You still have your cap space, a traded player exception, the #24 pick, our 2nd rounders, Frye, and Joel Freeland's rights to help improve the team further.

I still see us as a sure Playoff team, given the improvements all our existing players will likely make.

I don't know. As I already said, I'm torn. I question whether a move such as this is even necessary. I'd sorely miss Rudy, but I just don't think the loss will hurt us in the short term and the benefits in the long term would be awesome.

You're losing two of the better off-the-bench offensive players in the league. Webster has been a below average NBA player to date, and Bayless is undersized at SG and unnecessary at PG unless you plan to give Rubio the Bayless rookie treatment.

I think that trade makes the team considerably worse off simply due to losing two long and athletic wing players who both play multiple positions in Rudy and Outlaw, and in turn replacing them with...nothing?

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Impossible to know who is available and for what price... I should have said that for me to endorse trading those guys - I would expect an Allstar level player in return...

could that package get you Steve Nash? Jason Kidd and Brandon Bass? Andre Miller and change?

not sure.. but I'd prefer those guys to Rubio - for a team that has a chance to win now.

If we could get Tony Parker for that package, I would be ecstatic and quickly forget Rubio. Quickly.

Nash, Kidd, Bibby, or Miller would not make me a happy camper. I wouldn't even be excited about adding them in as a free agent, not for the couple of years left of decent production we'd get.

I don't think the addition of them would help us reach a championship. Maybe the WCF, but that's as far as I believe they could take us personally.

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

If we could get Tony Parker for that package, I would be ecstatic and quickly forget Rubio. Quickly.

Nash, Kidd, Bibby, or Miller would not make me a happy camper. I wouldn't even be excited about adding them in as a free agent, not for the couple of years left of decent production we'd get.

I don't think the addition of them would help us reach a championship. Maybe the WCF, but that's as far as I believe they could take us personally.

Steve Nash is still playing at a very high level - I think he has 3-4 more good years in him.. can you imagine Nash feeding LaMarcus on the break or working the pick and roll with Oden?

Yikes...

Nash is the ideal target for KP.

 

[andalusian]

Steve Nash is still playing at a very high level - I think he has 3-4 more good years in him.. can you imagine Nash feeding LaMarcus on the break or working the pick and roll with Oden?

Yikes...

Nash is the ideal target for KP.

I really do not see why we need more offense when we had one of the most efficient ones in the league with slow and safe Blake. What we need is an upgrade on defense from the perimeter, especially against quick point guards - and Nash is not the answer there.

We have seen how Aaron Brooks killed us in the playoffs, we have seen how much trouble we had containing NOH until CP3 went down and we killed that same team without him in a matter of minutes. Dallas was a real headache for us not because of Kidd, but because we could never stop the penetration from Barea, Parker single-handly won one game for SAS against us last year (and almost the first meeting as well) - despite the fact that other than him we match exceptionally well against them.

Perimeter defense is the #1 problem for this team to really take the next step - our offense will do just fine with what we already have - Roy is already among the hardest players in the league to stop, LMA is a quality big guy that will continue getting better, Oden by virtue of being able to stay an extra 10 minutes on the court per game will increase our offensive efficiency even if he never learn one skill on top of what we have seen from him his rookie year, we can assume that Batum and Rudy will get better and JB could provide more scoring punch as well.

It's perimeter defense that kills us. Simple as that.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Steve Nash is still playing at a very high level - I think he has 3-4 more good years in him.. can you imagine Nash feeding LaMarcus on the break or working the pick and roll with Oden?

Yikes...

Nash is the ideal target for KP.

I don't know. I've always liked his game. What I've been concerned about is that age of his. He'll be 36 before we even get into the Playoffs next year. His PER has gone down from 24 (3 years ago), 21 (2 years ago), and 19.5 (last year).

As risky as you say it is to draft Ricky Rubio, I would say it's equally as risky to trade for Steve Nash. Maybe we get 2 or 3 more seasons of higher-than-average caliber play. At least with Rubio we'll have, eventually, all of our core in their primes with him. With Nash, no one will be in their primes while he's a Blazer.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

The fact that Nash has sustained the level of play he has this far past his prime years is actually amazing. Props to Nash.

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

I really do not see why we need more offense when we had one of the most efficient ones in the league with slow and safe Blake. What we need is an upgrade on defense from the perimeter, especially against quick point guards - and Nash is not the answer there.

We have seen how Aaron Brooks killed us in the playoffs, we have seen how much trouble we had containing NOH until CP3 went down and we killed that same team without him in a matter of minutes. Dallas was a real headache for us not because of Kidd, but because we could never stop the penetration from Barea, Parker single-handly won one game for SAS against us last year (and almost the first meeting as well) - despite the fact that other than him we match exceptionally well against them.

Perimeter defense is the #1 problem for this team to really take the next step - our offense will do just fine with what we already have - Roy is already among the hardest players in the league to stop, LMA is a quality big guy that will continue getting better, Oden by virtue of being able to stay an extra 10 minutes on the court per game will increase our offensive efficiency even if he never learn one skill on top of what we have seen from him his rookie year, we can assume that Batum and Rudy will get better and JB could provide more scoring punch as well.

It's perimeter defense that kills us. Simple as that.

I'm sorry - but I don't buy the whole theory that our offense is so efficient so we don't need to get better there.

Brandon Roy bailed us out all season long - and that is something you just can't count on in the Postseason.. he needs help.

There is NO player in the NBA that can stop Aaron Brooks or Chris Paul 1 on 1.

Certainly a 18 year old Ricky Rubio isnt going to do it.

 

[andalusian]

I'm sorry - but I don't buy the whole theory that our offense is so efficient so we don't need to get better there.

Brandon Roy bailed us out all season long - and that is something you just can't count on in the Postseason.. he needs help.

There is NO player in the NBA that can stop Aaron Brooks or Chris Paul 1 on 1.

Certainly a 18 year old Ricky Rubio isnt going to do it.

When you are in the desert and you are thirsty and you have not seen TV for 3 weeks - when you get to the oasis you go to drink first - and if you get to watch "Junkyard wars" later - that's nice.

You solve the big problems first, and the others are nice to have.

Sure we could get more efficient on offense - but we would do that with tons of other point guards, not just Nash. Unfortunately, Nash does not really solve our problem of being close to die of thirst... he might actually make it worse...

... and while there are very few teams that can stop the really fast point guards - you do not need someone that will stop them - you just need someone that will slow them, make their life harder and protect our bigs from getting stupid fouls when exposed trying to cover for them...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Rubio has game-changing talent. He is a very disruptive defender (a la Rajon Rondo - he was ACB defensive player of the year this year, I believe) and a distributor of Jason-Kidd like talent. In fact, Jason Kidd is probably the nearest comparison. Of course he doesn't have the raw athletic ability of the young Jason Kidd, but he's got the PG skills and, while no doubt easier to post up, is as annoying defensively. Kidd never put up huge scoring numbers but was always a tranformative player wherever he went.

Rubio isn't just any PG: he's by far the best PG in a great PG class. He was more important to Spain (and, apart from in the final) played better than Rudy. I was not pleased to see this at the time, because I was all geeked about getting Rudy and wanted him to be the best player.

Rudy has never been seen as the prospect that Rubio has. Rudy is a skinny SG of average height with poor dribbling skills. It's his intangibles that are off the charts. Rubio has that plus is tall for his position, an amazing ball-handler and defender and has a practically unequalled floor vision. Do you think that he's being ranked as the second of a two prospect draft for nothing? If anything, he should be ranked first, and it's only because people rate size more that he isn't. I will bet that in five years people will see the ranking of Blake Griffin over Rubio as they now see the ranking of Glenn Robinson over Jason Kidd.

Now, can we get him? Probably not. Would Nate use him well? Very unclear.

 

[hasoos]

I'm sorry - but I don't buy the whole theory that our offense is so efficient so we don't need to get better there.

Brandon Roy bailed us out all season long - and that is something you just can't count on in the Postseason.. he needs help.

There is NO player in the NBA that can stop Aaron Brooks or Chris Paul 1 on 1.

Certainly a 18 year old Ricky Rubio isnt going to do it.

That is correct. When it comes to PG with Blazing fast speed (no pun intended!) you are either a team who has one and can compete nightly with other teams that have such a guard, or your are a team without one, who is victimized every time you play one of these teams. Right now, between New Orleans, San Antonio, PHX, Utah and Houston, Portland gets raped by the opposing PG about a 3rd of the schedule. Wouldn't it be nice to make that not be a detriment so many nights of the year, and know the team actually matches up for a change?

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

That is correct. When it comes to PG with Blazing fast speed (no pun intended!) you are either a team who has one and can compete nightly with other teams that have such a guard, or your are a team without one, who is victimized every time you play one of these teams. Right now, between New Orleans, San Antonio, PHX, Utah and Houston, Portland gets raped by the opposing PG about a 3rd of the schedule. Wouldn't it be nice to make that not be a detriment so many nights of the year, and know the team actually matches up for a change?

Jarryd Bayless to the rescue!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That is correct. When it comes to PG with Blazing fast speed (no pun intended!) you are either a team who has one and can compete nightly with other teams that have such a guard, or your are a team without one, who is victimized every time you play one of these teams. Right now, between New Orleans, San Antonio, PHX, Utah and Houston, Portland gets raped by the opposing PG about a 3rd of the schedule. Wouldn't it be nice to make that not be a detriment so many nights of the year, and know the team actually matches up for a change?

Do we have to use the term "raped"? It's pretty offensive, particularly if anyone reading this actually has been raped.

And it's nice that you list PHX and Utah there - I'm sure Deron Williams and Steve Nash would be surprised and pleased to be told they have "blazing speed".

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Some quotes on Rubio from people who've probably seen him play a lot more than any of us:

DraftExpress:

Rubio is one of the best pick and roll players you'll find in basketball today, NBA or not. According to Synergy Sports Technology's quantified report, an astounding 62% of his offensive possessions come in this fashion. His ability to deliver crisp, perfectly timed passes directly into the hands of a cutting teammate for an easy basket is uncanny, as he makes the game so incredibly simple, doing everything but put the ball into the net for them. It's exactly this type of court vision and feel for the game that has produced comparisons to Steve Nash, even if their perimeter shooting and defensive skills couldn't be any more different. He has a similar ability to change speeds with the ball and simultaneously see every inch of the court, not hesitating for an instant to deliver a bullet pass underneath the rim for an easy layup.

Jonathan Givony (who may have also written the above):

His 51 point, 24 rebound, 12 assist and seven steal game in the Under-16 European Championship Final is already a thing of legend. His debut in the strongest league in Europe came at age 14. He won the FIBA EuroCup in 2006, and the ULEB Cup in 2008. He was a key cog in helping a Rudy Fernandez-led squad win the prestigious Copa del Rey last year, and was named the top point guard in the ACB a few months later. He held his own against Deron Williams, Chris Paul and Jason Kidd in the Gold medal game of the Olympics this past summer in Beijing. His resume reads longer than most 35-year olds, but somehow he's still only 18 years old, the youngest player in the 2009 draft.

Rubio is rewriting the record books every time he steps on the court. He's in unchartered territory, and no one really knows how far he can go. His knowledge of the game and feel for making plays is really unlike anything we've observed before --he regularly sees things on the floor and executes passes that only a handful of players in the world are capable of even thinking of. The poise and maturity he shows at all times is nothing short of incredible.

"Scouts" talking to ESPN the Magazine last year:

Here's what scouts say about Rubio. Sounds like he's the real deal with a little work left to do—like any 17-year-old.

PROS: Has a good long frame that can carry NBA muscle … Fearless, confident … Acts as coach on floor … In mold of Maravich, Bob Cousy and Steve Nash, has excellent court vision and can make range of passes … Understands defense; loves to get down and deflect … Anticipates very well … Moves well without ball … Plays beyond years.

Aaron Torres:

I was excited, I was overwhelmed. Most of all I was impressed...more than impressed. Heck, I haven't been this excited for anything basketball related since the Isiah Thomas sexual harassment trial began.

At 18, Rubio has a basketball IQ that is absolutely off the charts. Like watching Chris Paul, Rubio has an innate understanding of where his teammates should be, and will be on any given play. When running offensive sets, he seems to have a clear feel for proper spacing, and always seems to make the right pass on the fast break.

While his speed from end-to-end isn't that of Paul or Derrick Rose, Rubio seems to have the deceptive quickness that made Steve Nash a two-time MVP. He always appears able to get where he needs to be on the court, whether it's turning a corner, or simply putting his shoulder down and bulling through a defender. Even in the most chaotic of situations, he always seems to be under control.

And in the open court Rubio's antics were exactly as they've been described to me: Maravich-esque.

The scary part? At 6'3 and just 180 lbs., Rubio is still growing into his body and into his game, and with his long arms is just starting to figure out his defensive capabilities.

He also appears to have something that many Europeans have lacked since they began coming to America in droves about a decade ago: an overwhelming sense of confidence in what he's doing, and in himself.

Henry Abbott's "insider sources":

Synergy Sports' video scouting service has a setting that lets you watch every assist, or pass that could have been an assist, all in a row. As of this moment that file is 164 plays long, and it's magic.

If you had a sports bar, you could just play this video on a big screen TV around the clock, and your customers would be happy. It's blatantly greatness at work. And in that sports bar, every few minutes some drunk guy would point at the screen and say: He's 18!

And that drunk guy would be right, unless it was one of the older clips when he was only 17.

When Rubio has the ball, something sizzling and unexpected could happen at any time, and it often does. He not only makes passes that make you say "wow" but he also does everything imaginable to cleverly get teammates open and then deliver them the ball. He catches defenders snoozing. He beats his man and gets into the paint, and once he gets there, the ball could be going one-handed to the far corner, gently lobbed at the rim for the big man, shoveled at the last instant to an open teammate, or anything else.

One basketball insider says that when there is a fast break, he just about always knows where the ball is going to go. Unless it's a Rubio break, in which case he sees dunks and layups for teammates that are simply not evident earlier in the play. That's vision.

Also worth noting from those highlights: The Joventut big men running their asses off. They know they'll get the ball, thanks to Rubio. Getting big men out on the break is an important skill.
Sometimes 18-year-old prospects don't have any skills that are truly NBA ready. Not a problem here. He has elite ideas about what to do with the ball.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Thanks!

If Memphis is going to give him up, the conversation would at least have to start with Rudy Fernandez UNLESS we were able to get the #5 pick from Washington AND if Jordan Hill dropped to 5, then we could produce some sort of package that included Jerryd Bayless and Hill.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I'm not too familiar with what the Wizards are expecting to receive for the #5 pick. I know they want to cut salary to get below the lux. tax.

We could use Brendan Haywood. We could send a package of Outlaw and Sergio for Haywood and the #5. They could immediately terminate Outlaw's contract and shave Haywood and the #5's salary off the books in place of Sergio's $1.5.

This would save them about $7M next season ($14M if you factor in the luxury tax cost).

 

[SnakeOiler]

Rubio is HYPE. Nothing more.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Rubio is HYPE. Nothing more.

Wow - how are you able to see through it when so many are fooled? What's your secret?