RIP General H. Norman Schwarzkopf

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I thank god that we have guys like this to protect your right to be pricks

Not one single person of the approximate 1 million persons killed by Schwarzkopf ever posed a threat to me, or to my right to be a prick. Nor have my rights in general persevered because of any killings by the late general. To be quite honest my rights have been steadily eroded, distorted, ignored and confiscated since the day I was born. Almost always during wartime with the protection of national security as a token excuse.

The US military-industrial complex is the only serious and active threat to the Constitutional rights of Real Americans. It's been that way all my life.
 
Surely you can document he killed 1M persons. Do you have a photo of the pile of 1M spent shell casings?
 
Denny, is it Libertarian to back the military-industrial complex? Do you?
 
We don't have a rule against unpopular speech or against people acting like idiots. You don't make it to near 14,000 posts if you aren't at least loyal to the site and community.

Damn it Denny Crane, you nearly brought a tear to my eye. :wub:

We agree on a few (mostly Constitutional/civil rights) issues, disagree on many more government/corporate/revenue/social assistance issues, but we both learn "something" from the often aggravating discussion.

Posters who dismiss others simply because they don't agree, without asking why they don't agree, come away empty-handed (or perhaps empty-headed). :dunno:
 
Surely you can document he killed 1M persons. Do you have a photo of the pile of 1M spent shell casings?

It was a very conservative guesstimate of personal kills and kills by proxy under his command. At first he carved notches in his gunstock but at some point early on that method became too cumbersome.

Hitler didn't personally kill 6 million people either.
 
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It was a very conservative guesstimate of personal kills and kills by proxy under his command.

At first he carved notches in his gunstock but...

It is an absurd exaggeration. Beyond the realm of belief.
 
There are much higher professional estimates for Iran War II.
 
Denny, is it Libertarian to back the military-industrial complex? Do you?

the idea is to bring the troops back home, save hundreds of billions, while still having hundreds of billions for R&D and national defense
 
That sneaky Denny. He posts in favor of war to maximize controversy and hit count, while he really wants no foreign intervention.

What a businessman. A better entertainer than Trump. Deserves his own show.
 
It is an absurd exaggeration. Beyond the realm of belief.

Check out all his wars/campaigns/incursions/interventions over his 40+ years of service to the military-industrial complex. Give me your best guess.
 
Check out all his wars/campaigns/incursions/interventions over his 40+ years of service to the military-industrial complex. Give me your best guess.

In Vietnam? He wasn't one of the major guys. Maybe his men killed in the 4 figures.

In Iraq? 2500 civilians, 15,000 Iraqi soldiers.
 
Denny, is it Libertarian to back the military-industrial complex? Do you?

The idea is to bring the troops home from everywhere. Pay them to guard against sneak attacks from Canada or some other threat to the homeland. Spend all the money we need to assure they're fully equipped to defend us. And that's it.
 
Then why fight the judgments of history by making excuses for wars?
 
Then why fight the judgments of history by making excuses for wars?

I voted for a guy in 2004 who would have brought the troops home right then and there. I bet the guy you voted for didn't make such a promise, nor did he have such convictions.

I think you're bloviating.
 
Dear jlpb&j,

You need to try just a little harder..

jlprk doesn't need to try at all. As usual, he knows his topic inside and out and is probably simultaneously boning up on NASA's next venture online while helping his son with his homework and doing his ex-sister-in-law's taxes just to spite his witch of an ex.

jlprk actually had nearly the same childhood environment that Schwarzkopf had, son of a Colonel growing up on bases all around the world. Also was a member of Mensa, although they bored him so much I think he left them behind.

The main difference between jlprk and the late general (besides a pulse) is jlprk never felt the need or desire to kill strangers.

So I believe jlprk to be the smarter, saner, more humane of the 2, and far more qualified to defend my right to be a prick.
 
In Vietnam? He wasn't one of the major guys. Maybe his men killed in the 4 figures.

In Iraq? 2500 civilians, 15,000 Iraqi soldiers.

I wasn't asking for an average per day. Over 100,000 civilians were killed in Desert Storm. People are still dying today in Vietnam from the effects of Agent Orange.
 
I wasn't asking for an average per day. Over 100,000 civilians were killed in Desert Storm. People are still dying today in Vietnam from the effects of Agent Orange.

100,000 civilians were not killed in Desert Storm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign

The U.S. government claimed the Iraqi government fabricated numerous attacks on Iraqi holy sites in order to rally the Muslim community. One such instance had Iraq reporting that coalition forces attacked the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala. The final number of Iraqi civilians killed was 2,278, while 5,965 were reported wounded.[22]
 
jlprk doesn't need to try at all. As usual, he knows his topic inside and out and is probably simultaneously boning up on NASA's next venture online while helping his son with his homework and doing his ex-sister-in-law's taxes just to spite his witch of an ex.

jlprk actually had nearly the same childhood environment that Schwarzkopf had, son of a Colonel growing up on bases all around the world. Also was a member of Mensa, although they bored him so much I think he left them behind.

The main difference between jlprk and the late general (besides a pulse) is jlprk never felt the need or desire to kill strangers.

So I believe jlprk to be the smarter, saner, more humane of the 2, and far more qualified to defend my right to be a prick.

Someone actually reads my posts!!??!!

<sob> You are better to me than my own brother (the one I sued, don't get conceited). I will forever defend your right to be a prick.

I wasn't asking for an average per day. Over 100,000 civilians were killed in Desert Storm. People are still dying today in Vietnam from the effects of Agent Orange.

I used to have all of 5 cousins. Then the Army lieutenant came home, wrote a top-20 mildly antiwar hit song, and died after 5 years at 35 of an extremely rare brain cancer. It was either Agent Orange or something more conspiratorial...

The big computer in the sky can add a couple of factoids to my bio now.
 
100,000 civilians were not killed in Desert Storm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign

The U.S. government claimed the Iraqi government fabricated numerous attacks on Iraqi holy sites in order to rally the Muslim community. One such instance had Iraq reporting that coalition forces attacked the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala. The final number of Iraqi civilians killed was 2,278, while 5,965 were reported wounded.[22]


An investigation by Beth Osborne Daponte estimated total civilian fatalities at about 3,500 from bombing, and some 100,000 from the war's other effects.
^ a b Robert Fisk, The Great War For Civilisation; The Conquest of the Middle East (Fourth Estate, 2005), p.853.
^ "Toting the Casualties of War". Businessweek. 6 February 2003.
^ Ford, Peter (9 April 2003). "Bid to stem civilian deaths tested". Christian Science Monitor.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War#Civilian
 
Beth Osborne Daponte was a 29-year-old Commerce Dept. demographer in 1992, when she publicly contradicted then-Defense Secretary Richard Cheney on the highly sensitive issue of Iraqi civilian casualties during the Gulf War. In short order, Daponte was told she was losing her job. She says her official report disappeared from her desk, and a new estimate, prepared by supervisors, greatly reduced the number of estimated civilian casualties.

Although Cheney said shortly after the 1991 Gulf War that "we have no way of knowing precisely how many casualties occurred" during the fighting "and may never know," Daponte had estimated otherwise: 13,000 civilians were killed directly by American and allied forces, and about 70,000 civilians died subsequently from war-related damage to medical facilities and supplies, the electric power grid, and the water system, she calculated. In all, 40,000 Iraqi soldiers were killed in the conflict, she concluded, putting total Iraqi losses from the war and its aftermath at 158,000, including 86,194 men, 39,612 women, and 32,195 children.

...That required her to estimate how many Iraqis had died from the war and its aftermath, including the rebellion of Shiites in the South and Kurds in the North (an additional 30,000 deaths, she estimated). Daponte used a 1987 Iraqi census and U.N. figures as her base of comparison. (The Defense Intelligence Agency eventually estimated 100,000 Iraqi military were killed in the war, plus or minus 50,000.)...Her final estimates were higher than her original ones: 205,500 Iraqis died in the war and postwar period, she believes today.

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2003-02-05/toting-the-casualties-of-war

Look at how authoritative sources lie about her estimates.

The estimate for civilian deaths is based on a study conducted by Beth Osborne Daponte, a former Census Bureau analyst and currently a senior research scientist at Carnegie Mellon University (Daponte 1993). With regard to civilian casualties directly attributable to the war, the study builds on earlier research conducted by Humans Rights Watch shortly after the war (HRW 1991). The HRW estimate of 2,500 to 3,000 Iraqi civilians killed in the war was based on eyewitness reports, although no claim was made that the survey was comprehensive. From this source Daponte compiled a database of 2,665 deaths, after removing duplicate reports. Subsequently, she checked this on a province by province basis against the official Iraqi records of 2,278 civilian deaths from the war. Overall it appeared that the Iraqi government had undercounted the civilian death toll, although this was not systematic. In some governorates (provinces), the official count was higher -- and in these cases Daponte added the "excess" cases to the total. The combined total was 3,664. Turning to Iraqi military casualties in the 1990-1991 Gulf War: we conclude that between 20,000 and 26,000 were killed.

http://www.comw.org/pda/0310rm8ap2.html#1. Iraqi civilian fatalities in the 1991 Gulf
 

An investigation by Beth Osborne Daponte estimated total civilian fatalities at about 3,500 from bombing, and some 100,000 from the war's other effects.
^ a b Robert Fisk, The Great War For Civilisation; The Conquest of the Middle East (Fourth Estate, 2005), p.853.
^ "Toting the Casualties of War". Businessweek. 6 February 2003.
^ Ford, Peter (9 April 2003). "Bid to stem civilian deaths tested". Christian Science Monitor.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War#Civilian

If you want to blame "other effects" then you may as well add the 3M that Saddam killed after we left him in power. He used WMDs.
 
In this thread, 1M was mentioned, but then the target was 100,000 civilians. I forgot what it is, you tell me. Anyway, where does the article say 25,000?
 
The last sentence of your previous post:
"Turning to Iraqi military casualties in the 1990-1991 Gulf War: we conclude that between 20,000 and 26,000 were killed."

MARIS61 said:
Not one single person of the approximate 1 million persons killed by Schwarzkopf ever posed a threat to me, or to my right to be a prick.
 
In my first excerpt, she says 40,000 and the DIA says 100,000. In the second excerpt, the authoritative source lies that she says 20-26,000 and leaves out the DIA estimate. My point was that, not only was she fired to silence any professional estimating, not only was her stuff barely reported and then hidden by the controlled media, but that in the few cases it was reported, the numbers were falsely decreased.
 
If you want to blame "other effects" then you may as well add the 3M that Saddam killed after we left him in power. He used WMDs.

Okay, since you like strawmen, we'll agree Saddam murdered more civilians than Schwarzkopf murdered. Hitler murdered more than both combined.

Regardless of the exact body count, it puts these mall and school shootings into perspective. Where's the outcry to disarm the US military?
 

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