Ron Paul wants to get rid of FEMA

[barfo]

It doesn't bring me happiness. It's well beyond being a nuisance. I honestly remember maybe a handful of times I had direct contact with it that I would call as good a time as going through voicemail hell to speak to some company's human representative. For the most part, any interaction I've had has been a real waste of time, like having an appointment at the DMV only to find I get to wait UN a "special" line for 2 hours with everyone else who waited on the phone for 46 minutes to get the appointment for the same day and time.

It's always fun to get stopped by a cop for doing 40 in a 35 zone while there are cars on the same road as you going faster.

Words I never, ever want to hear are, "I'm here from the government and I'm here to help you."

Those are your problems with government? You have to stand in line at the DMV and you got a speeding ticket?

Those sound pretty minor to me. Certainly not "well beyond being a nuisance". And completely unrelated to the federal government, which is what you mostly seem to rail about.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't at all like that the Feds came into my neighborhood and destroyed the value of my home and all the ones within miles of it. I feel my privacy is invaded by having to provide the Feds with my financial details - right down to my paycheck stub. I don't like it when I fill up the gas tank and the price is inflated by the taxes. I don't like it when the cost of food at the grocery store goes up because they use my tax money to give to farmers to make ethanol instead of food.

That's just the short list.

 

[barfo]

I don't at all like that the Feds came into my neighborhood and destroyed the value of my home and all the ones within miles of it. I feel my privacy is invaded by having to provide the Feds with my financial details - right down to my paycheck stub. I don't like it when I fill up the gas tank and the price is inflated by the taxes. I don't like it when the cost of food at the grocery store goes up because they use my tax money to give to farmers to make ethanol instead of food.

That's just the short list.

Other than the first (and I don't quite know what you mean by the first - did they build a nuke plant in your backyard?) those seem like fairly trivial concerns. Yes, the feds know how much money you make, but so what? Yes, you have to pay taxes. So what? Yes, government sometimes makes dumb decisions. So what?

You haven't provided any examples where the action of the government actually impacts your life in a way that you couldn't just ignore if you were so inclined.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Other than the first (and I don't quite know what you mean by the first - did they build a nuke plant in your backyard?) those seem like fairly trivial concerns. Yes, the feds know how much money you make, but so what? Yes, you have to pay taxes. So what? Yes, government sometimes makes dumb decisions. So what?

You haven't provided any examples where the action of the government actually impacts your life in a way that you couldn't just ignore if you were so inclined.

barfo

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were quasi public government entities that now own enough houses in the whole city that are being sold for less than the homes cost in 2000. They're not very quasi anymore.

I cannot ignore the taxes because they have a bigger army with bigger guns than I could get my hands on.

I cannot ignore what they did to my home value, either, unless I want to further hurt my neighbors by walking away from the mortgage.

 

[barfo]

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were quasi public government entities that now own enough houses in the whole city that are being sold for less than the homes cost in 2000. They're not very quasi anymore.

I cannot ignore the taxes because they have a bigger army with bigger guns than I could get my hands on.

I cannot ignore what they did to my home value, either, unless I want to further hurt my neighbors by walking away from the mortgage.

You think the government caused the housing bubble to crash, but did not cause the housing bubble itself? Interesting viewpoint.

As for the army, that seems both paranoid and contradictory, since you've been in favor of most of our major military adventures. Do you expect that we can invade foreign countries without an army?

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

You think the government caused the housing bubble to crash, but did not cause the housing bubble itself? Interesting viewpoint.

As for the army, that seems both paranoid and contradictory, since you've been in favor of most of our major military adventures. Do you expect that we can invade foreign countries without an army?

barfo

Pretty soon we won't need one. It will all be UAVs and robots!

 

[Denny Crane]

You think the government caused the housing bubble to crash, but did not cause the housing bubble itself? Interesting viewpoint.

As for the army, that seems both paranoid and contradictory, since you've been in favor of most of our major military adventures. Do you expect that we can invade foreign countries without an army?

barfo

Boy do you go off on tangents.

Yes, the government caused the bubble and the crash. Barney Frank is one of the most culpable in the whole mess.

The point about the army is if I ignore the government about taxes, they'll use the army or police and whatever force required to take the money from me.

 

[barfo]

Boy do you go off on tangents.

I'm just responding to what you post.

Yes, the government caused the bubble and the crash. Barney Frank is one of the most culpable in the whole mess.

Ok, so what's the big deal? Prices went up, prices came back down.

The point about the army is if I ignore the government about taxes, they'll use the army or police and whatever force required to take the money from me.

So stop being such a baby and pay your taxes, and they won't come after you.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm just responding to what you post.



Ok, so what's the big deal? Prices went up, prices came back down.



So stop being such a baby and pay your taxes, and they won't come after you.

barfo

Prices went up, prices went down. Millions of people lost their homes and life savings. No big deal.

"Let them eat cake" -- barfo

A must see:

[video=youtube;aIm5Mp-mmRU]

 

[barfo]

Prices went up, prices went down. Millions of people lost their homes and life savings. No big deal.

It's a big deal, but none of those people were innocent. If you bought more house that you could afford, or you paid an inflated price for your house, then that's a bummer, but it's a choice you made. You didn't have to buy into the bubble. Seems like a libertarian should accept responsibility for his own actions.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

People who bought pre-bubble were harmed.

Do you believe that if you bought a house, it's value went up 100%, then fell by 75% that you're still up 25%?

 

[barfo]

People who bought pre-bubble were harmed.

Do you believe that if you bought a house, it's value went up 100%, then fell by 75% that you're still up 25%?

No, I can do math. But I don't believe those numbers you threw out there are in any way representative of reality. You really want to argue that housing prices are half what they were pre-bubble? That's nonsense.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Case in point. A home in Vegas sold for $400K in 2000, peaked at over $800K during the bubble, never had a loan to value over 50%, was purchased with half down, and is now worth $225K.

 

[barfo]

Case in point. A home in Vegas sold for $400K in 2000, peaked at over $800K during the bubble, never had a loan to value over 50%, was purchased with half down, and is now worth $225K.

What do you consider the 'true value' of that house? Is it $225k, $400K, or something else?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

What do you consider the 'true value' of that house? Is it $225k, $400K, or something else?

barfo

No less than $400K. It isn't free market forces that are determining the current value, but govt intervention in the form of them TAKING peoples' homes nearby and selling them at a loss.

 

[barfo]

No less than $400K. It isn't free market forces that are determining the current value, but govt intervention in the form of them TAKING peoples' homes nearby and selling them at a loss.

Well, in that case, you should run out and buy that house at $225K. It's a bargain that the evil government is giving you. Take advantage of it. After all, you are sure it is worth $400K, right?

barfo

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Case in point. A home in Vegas sold for $400K in 2000, peaked at over $800K during the bubble, never had a loan to value over 50%, was purchased with half down, and is now worth $225K.

Dont you think Las Vegas is the most extreme case and also very different since it is tied into the gaming industry so heavily?

 

[Denny Crane]

Dont you think Las Vegas is the most extreme case and also very different since it is tied into the gaming industry so heavily?

No.

 

[Denny Crane]

Dont you think Las Vegas is the most extreme case and also very different since it is tied into the gaming industry so heavily?

Sorry for the terse answer...

I'm quite sure the same scenario is true for places in Florida, California, and Arizona. Among others...

 

[barfo]

Sorry for the terse answer...

I'm quite sure the same scenario is true for places in Florida, California, and Arizona. Among others...

There are of course local variations in housing prices. Overall, however, housing prices are higher than before the bubble.

barfo

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Sorry for the terse answer...

I'm quite sure the same scenario is true for places in Florida, California, and Arizona. Among others...

I could see that. I know in the Phoenix area they were throwing up homes as fast as they could build them. It was not people that were going to be living in the homes that did this and was alot of speculators. Cannot say I really care about that.

Also not having alot of sympathy for the people that got too much house for what they could afford. Even if my house is worth 50% less than what I paid for it, it does not matter. I make the payments on my loan regardless of how much equity is in my home. We also bought a condo for my sister in law while she went to school with the notion that in four years we would sell it. Instead of saving us paying rent for her, we will be taking a loss. Our eggs were not all in one basket though and it has not had any bearing on how we live.