ROY comments on our offense - is there a problem here?

[Blazinaway]

Why does he need to change for the entire team? The team won 54 games with Roy playing like Roy should, and it took Houston to 6 games. It wasn't Roy's fault that Oden and Przy sucked against Houston, Outlaw, Batum, and Rudy disappeared, and Yao dominated the paint.

I want my All-NBA player to play like an All-NBA player. If the players around him don't fit, then that is the fault of the GM. As it stands now, one move has been made over the summer. What was the point of changing the GM, if the team stays pretty much the same?

So Roy can't try to change "somewhat" to fit better with the team mates he has? That's too much too ask? Stars who win championships do adapt to their situation, so now you try to deflect it on the GM (there you go again) and Roy never needs to do anything? Gimme a frickin break

 

[blazerboy30]

Why does he need to change for the entire team? The team won 54 games with Roy playing like Roy should, and it took Houston to 6 games. It wasn't Roy's fault that Oden and Przy sucked against Houston, Outlaw, Batum, and Rudy disappeared, and Yao dominated the paint.

And where is the proof they wouldn't have won 60 games that year with Roy playing a different role?

 

[BGrantFan]

So Roy can't try to change "somewhat" to fit better with the team mates he has? That's too much too ask? Stars who win championships do adapt to their situation, so now you try to deflect it on the GM (there you go again) and Roy never needs to do anything? Gimme a frickin break

HOW DO YOU WANT ROY TO CHANGE?

I want him to be involved more on offense. A usage rate of 26 for an elite guard is bad coaching, IMO. What's your solution?

 

[BGrantFan]

And where is the proof they wouldn't have won 60 games that year with Roy playing a different role?

Where is the proof they wouldn't have won 60 games with Roy having a usage rate of 35?

 

[Blazinaway]

HOW DO YOU WANT ROY TO CHANGE?

Like what was talked about earlier, play off the ball more, have more movement and motion in the offense, get his team mates more involved so it becomes easier for him, which it will. What worked in 08/09 was fine for that very young team, teams and players mature and Roy needs to do that with his game as most successful stars have. We're not asking the moon here, just some modest changes that every great player makes to become a better "overall" player as their game matures.

 

[blazerboy30]

Where is the proof they wouldn't have won 60 games with Roy having a usage rate of 35?

You said they won 54 games with Roy "playing like Roy should". Now you are bringing up a usage rate of 35? Why do you want Roy to play differently, PapaG?

 

[BGrantFan]

Like what was talked about earlier, play off the ball more, have more movement and motion in the offense, get his team mates more involved so it becomes easier for him, which it will. What worked in 08/09 was fine for that very young team, teams and players mature and Roy needs to do that with his game as most successful stars have. We're not asking the moon here, just some modest changes that every great player makes to become a better "overall" player as their game matures.

How do you know that this will improve the team? Roy is already a great offensive player, although a bit underutilized, IMO. He could certainly improve his defense. That's what I'd like to see him work on, instead of having the ball less on offense.

 

[BGrantFan]

You said they won 54 games with Roy "playing like Roy should". Now you are bringing up a usage rate of 35? Why do you want Roy to play differently?

I've already posted why. Read much, "Stanford grad"? LOL

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

One thing to keep in mind when thinking about how effective Roy was in 08/09: He has an additional year of opponents scouting and subsequent gameplanning that he must overcome.

 

[Minstrel]

How do you know that this will improve the team?

We don't know, one way or the other. That's why it needs to be tested.

 

[Tince]

Seems like most everyone is trying to take the interview and mold in to their agenda.

Roy wants to go back to the way the offense was two years ago, where there were more ISO's. His tone didn't make it seem like he was upset with Miller or Nate, but that Nate told him they were going to get him the ball more and that it wasn't about Miller wanting it or not.

Must be a slow news week.

 

[blazerboy30]

I've already posted why.

But you said "Roy playing like Roy should" and then wonder if he should bring his usage rate up. Why do you want Roy to change just because Miller is on the team? Miller has never even been out of the first round.

Read much, "Stanford grad"? LOL

You're so hung up on the Stanford thing. If you're so obsessed with it, come on down and I'll give you a tour. It really is just another school, don't feel so bad about yourself.

 

[Blazinaway]

How do you know that this will improve the team? Roy is already a great offensive player, although a bit underutilized, IMO. He could certainly improve his defense. That's what I'd like to see him work on, instead of having the ball less on offense.

I give up on you, how do I "know"? I know if you don't at least give it a very good try that's a failure I've played and watched sports all my life and the good and especially great players in any team sport adapt their varied skills to to help make the team better. Roy so far has not shown the willingness to do that IMO.

 

[blazerboy30]

One thing to keep in mind when thinking about how effective Roy was in 08/09: He has an additional year of opponents scouting and subsequent gameplanning that he must overcome.

Yep. in 08/09 the 1-4 set was much more effective. Last year, the 1-4 set was usually a disaster as teams have figured out how to defend it easily.

 

[Blazinaway]

We don't know, one way or the other. That's why it needs to be tested.

+1 I don't think we can get this very simple idea thru his very thick head. Unreal.

 

[blazerboy30]

+1 I don't think we can get this very simple idea thru his very thick head. Unreal.

You're not used to the PapaG rampage? He does these pretty often. Keep throwing the same feces at the wall, over and over, and see if it will eventually stick.

It is best to just pet him on the head, smile and nod.

 

[BGrantFan]

We don't know, one way or the other. That's why it needs to be tested.

Why not test it the other way, and get Roy's usage rate up near Bryant's and Wade's? He's not being paid to be an off-the-ball player, IMO.

 

[BGrantFan]

+1 I don't think we can get this very simple idea thru his very thick head. Unreal.

Nate's never tried to increase Roy's usage rate, either. Why not try it that way?

 

[BGrantFan]

Keep throwing the same feces at the wall, over and over, and see if it will eventually stick.

It is best to just pet him on the head, smile and nod.

Get the ball to your best player more = throwing feces at the wall.

Whatever

 

[Blazinaway]

You're not used to the PapaG rampage? He does these pretty often. Keep throwing the same feces at the wall, over and over, and see if it will eventually stick.

It is best to just pet him on the head, smile and nod.

LOL no kiddin! reminds me of Jethro Tull and thick as a brick.

 

[RoyToy]

One thing to keep in mind when thinking about how effective Roy was in 08/09: He has an additional year of opponents scouting and subsequent gameplanning that he must overcome.

IMO that had more to do with Roy playing with Miller instead of Blake. Miller's lack of 3pt shooting just doesn't compliment Roy at all or the rest of the offense really. Teams play off Miller thus resulting in more pressure being put on Roy. Year before when they did that Blake could keep them honest.

People can talk about Miller and Roy having more chemistry this year w/e w/e. Fact is their styles don't mesh well which prohibits the team from reaching its full potential on offense. It's a problem.

 

[BGrantFan]

I give up on you, how do I "know"? I know if you don't at least give it a very good try that's a failure I've played and watched sports all my life and the good and especially great players in any team sport adapt their varied skills to to help make the team better. Roy so far has not shown the willingness to do that IMO.

So, you admit that you don't know, yet I am "thick-headed" for wanting to go the opposite direction, and give Roy even more of a play-making role.

What if Roy's skills are best-used having him decide where the ball needs to go on offense. Seems like you'd like to see him in a subservient role, unless I am mistaken.

 

[BGrantFan]

LOL no kiddin! reminds me of Jethro Tull and thick as a brick.

I don't have your opinion. Hence, I am "thick as a brick". You and the fake Stanford grad should hang out together.

 

[Minstrel]

Why not test it the other way, and get Roy's usage rate up near Bryant's and Wade's? He's not being paid to be an off-the-ball player, IMO.

Usage Rate really doesn't measure play style. Getting more shots will up usage rate. Theoretically, Roy could do nothing but catch and shoot and have a very high usage rate.

Not that I'm advocating that he only catch and shoot, of course, but the ideas of involving him even more and having him play off the ball more than he has aren't incompatible. He may dribble less but shoot more. It would be great if Roy could be both an on-ball threat and off-the-ball threat. This is separate from whether he should have a higher usage rate.

 

[andalusian]

Ya don't think he needs to try and help make everyone else better and work within a system designed to do that?

Where did I say it. I said that it's OK to expand the offensive game plan. That's good. But, I also think Roy needs to handle the ball a lot and be involved in the offense more - I honestly think that when all is said, this team has 2 PGOFTF - Roy on offense and ...? on defense.

ISO ball won't get you out of the first rd, we have found that out, and we can't just decide to change our offense at playoff time. Sorry, but he needs to adjust some, this is not a good sign for happening that IMO.

Give me a freaking break. ISO is good, as long as it is not the only thing that happens. If we want Roy to expand his game, being more of a facilitator as the primary ball handler seems more reasonable than reducing his involvement in the offense. One of Roy's biggest advantages is that he is a fantastic ball handler that is bigger and stronger than most people that have to guard him. More Roy initiated offense is great.

 

[Minstrel]

If we want Roy to expand his game, being more of a facilitator as the primary ball handler seems more reasonable than reducing his involvement in the offense. One of Roy's biggest advantages is that he is a fantastic ball handler that is bigger and stronger than most people that have to guard him. More Roy initiated offense is great.

I think he already does that. I think it would be quite a useful thing if he could learn to be a weapon off the ball in addition. Jordan and Kobe also were fantastic ball-handlers and big and strong...they've both benefited from having plays that run them off screens in order to either catch and shoot or go backdoor to get the ball.

If the Blazers didn't have Andre Miller, that may not work. However, Miller is a very good passer and there's plenty of strategic value to getting your best player open looks through the tricky use of screens, while your point guard pulls some defensive attention with both his passing and driving ability.

With Roy as initiator, Miller is less valuable because he can't shoot from range off a Roy pass. With Miller as initiator and Roy being on the receiving (and, ultimately, shooting) end, everyone's being used in a way that takes advantage of their abilities. Assuming Roy is capable of playing off-the-ball. It's a skill/talent that not everyone possesses. If he doesn't have that ability, then I fully agree: let Roy do what he's good at and let everyone find roles around that.

 

[BGrantFan]

Miller is a very good passer and there's plenty of strategic value to getting your best player open looks through the tricky use of screens, while your point guard pulls some defensive attention with both his passing and driving ability.

With Roy as initiator, Miller is less valuable because he can't shoot from range off a Roy pass. With Miller as initiator and Roy being on the receiving (and, ultimately, shooting) end, everyone's being used in a way that takes advantage of their abilities. Assuming Roy is capable of playing off-the-ball. It's a skill/talent that not everyone possesses. If he doesn't have that ability, then I fully agree: let Roy do what he's good at and let everyone find roles around that.

So, as I read this, it appears to me that Roy should adjust his All-NBA game around what Andre Miller is best at doing? What if Roy is not an off-the-ball player? Nothing I've seen from him in college or the NBA tells me that is his best fit, because until early last year, he's always had the ball in his hands.

If this makes me "thick-headed", so be it. I'll state it again. I want the ball in the hands of my best offensive player, a player who has proven he can pass the ball, as much as possible. It's worked for the Heat, it's worked for the Lakers, and the last Spurs title team had 3 players with a usage rate over 27.

I'm going to throw this out there. If Roy is healthy, then Nate is limiting the potential of his offensive game. Burn his knees out now and try for a title, because there are few players in the entire league who can do what Brandon does on offense.

 

[andalusian]

I think he already does that. I think it would be quite a useful thing if he could learn to be a weapon off the ball in addition. Jordan and Kobe also were fantastic ball-handlers and big and strong...they've both benefited from having plays that run them off screens in order to either catch and shoot or go backdoor to get the ball.

and I am happy he worked on this aspect of his game - but it should be secondary to him handling the ball.

If the Blazers didn't have Andre Miller, that may not work. However, Miller is a very good passer and there's plenty of strategic value to getting your best player open looks through the tricky use of screens, while your point guard pulls some defensive attention with both his passing and driving ability.

Miller is a stop-gap measure - and there is a reason Brandon did work on these aspects of the game - but I am going to suspect that Brandon is going to play a bit more with the big-unit next to Wes and Batum - where he is going to be playing as the primary ball handler. This was, if you remember correctly, the original plan of playing Miller with the 2nd unit and leading it. It did not work - but I suspect you will see the Roy/Miller duo, while starting together, maybe not playing that many minutes together unless they really click.

But, as we have seen even this pre-season, Roy seems to disappear into the background with Miller handling the ball at the start of games (happened like it last year when they started together as well). These guys, for all of their good individual abilities just do not mash that well. Roy is best when he controls the ball and has shooters next to him. Miller is best when he controls the ball and can push the tempo - not Roy's best feature.

At the end of the day, it's an efficiency game - Should Microsoft drop Office in order to make Bing more attractive? If they do it - they are in real danger. Their cash cow is Office, not search, it's OK to spend money on Search, it would be dumb to make Search their primary investment.

With Roy as initiator, Miller is less valuable because he can't shoot from range off a Roy pass. With Miller as initiator and Roy being on the receiving (and, ultimately, shooting) end, everyone's being used in a way that takes advantage of their abilities. Assuming Roy is capable of playing off-the-ball. It's a skill/talent that not everyone possesses. If he doesn't have that ability, then I fully agree: let Roy do what he's good at and let everyone find roles around that.

Roy can play off the ball, but that's not his best feature. Again, it's an efficiency game. Roy should work more with the ball in his hands and improve on this facet of his game. If the team wants more motion offense - work on motion offense initiated with Roy handling the ball with good off the ball shooters like Babbit and Wes at his side, instead of making Roy into something he is not.

 

[BGrantFan]

Usage Rate really doesn't measure play style. Getting more shots will up usage rate. Theoretically, Roy could do nothing but catch and shoot and have a very high usage rate.

That's not Roy's game, though. We've seem him be a willing passer and a willing rebounder, even on the offensive boards. Why is his usage rate lower than the other All-NBA guards? Why do you and others seemingly want him to defer even more than he does already?

I'm asking these questions to you because I do respect your basketball intelligence. I know WHAT could make Roy have a higher usage rate, as you explained, but do you really think that is his game? I think he could be a 25 ppg/7-8 apg/4 rpg player if given the ball more often, and the team would be better off for it. I am "thick-headed" though, so take that into consideration.

 

[Natebishop3]

What's more important to you? Roy being an All-Star/All-NBA, or the team winning in the playoffs?