Roy saw this coming

[magnifier661]

He's been known as a leader that leads by example type, right? I find it hypocritical of him to say that the team needs to step it up on defense, yet he himself is not doing what he's preaching. Lead by example and start playing some fucking defense.

He didn't just say "The Team Needed", he say first "He needed to work harder" then "Maybe we all should work harder" How is that him blaming the team only?

 

[PapaG]

He didn't just say "The Team Needed", he say first "He needed to work harder" then "Maybe we all should work harder" How is that him blaming the team only?

Again, the extreme 'Blazermaniacs' will try to drive the truly great players out of Portland. It's self-defeating, and it's fun to watch in a Shakespearean way.

 

[magnifier661]

Again, the extreme 'Blazermaniacs' will try to drive the truly great players out of Portland. It's self-defeating, and it's fun to watch in a Shakespearean way.

The minute the fans drive a player like Roy out of Portland, I will become a Sonics fan!

 

[PapaG]

The minute the fans drive a player like Roy out of Portland, I will become a Sonics fan!

It's already starting.

 

[PapaG]

I read the article where Roy commented that the team needs to put more effort in on defense. He wasn't leaving himself out, but he wasn't talking about his own lack of effort either. If you could, I'd love to read the article where Roy blamed himself first. Even so, I find it stupid for him to talk about putting more effort in on defense when it's clear to me his effort on that end is lacking. As a supposedly lead-by-example type of leader, he should first put some effort in before he talk about it.

Yes, Roy is putting in no effort. Solid observation.

 

[B-Roy]

Nobody is going to drive Roy out of town. Dude's a great player, and we're lucky to have him. It doesn't mean we can't point out his shortcomings, or when he make mistakes.

He didn't say anything wrong though in this situation and you are bashing him for it.

 

[PapaG]

Nobody is going to drive Roy out of town. Dude's a great player, and we're lucky to have him. It doesn't mean we can't point out his shortcomings, or when he make mistakes.

You seem to think it's wrong of the franchise player to call out his entire team, including himself, in public.

I'll take Roy at face value over posters on this board any day of the week.

 

[PapaG]

On defense, yes. Not a whole lot of effort I see from Roy on that end. I thought I was clear I was only talking about defense, but perhaps not? Or are you just being a fucking troll?

How am I trolling? I am commenting on your posts regarding Roy. I could consider those posts a "trolling", I suppose, but I'm not.

 

[PapaG]

Wrong in the sense that the team is lacking effort on defense? Then, no. He's not wrong. Wrong as in he, himself, is probably the biggest culprit in the team's lack of effort on defense? Yes.

Yeah, damn Roy for not containing Carmelo Anthony, who plays a completely different position.

Run him out of PDX!!!

 

[B-Roy]

Wrong in the sense that the team is lacking effort on defense? Then, no. He's not wrong. Wrong as in he, himself, is probably the biggest culprit in the team's lack of effort on defense? Yes.

That's arguable (wrong in my opinion, but that's a different matter), but him saying the entire team (which includes him) needs to step up on defense is not wrong at all. I don't really know what you want...Do you want him to not talk at all? Or come out and say "the team lacks defensive intensity, but I suck the most" or something?

 

[PapaG]

Like I said, I don't recalled Roy specifically calling himself out. Perhaps I just missed it, so a reminder would be appreciated. But I consider it hypocritical for the team leader (supposedly a leader by example type) to say the team is lacking effort on defense when his effort on that end is severely lacking as well.

You already had your reminder. You ignored it. At this point, I have to consider you a troll.

 

[B-Roy]

Like I said, I don't recalled Roy specifically calling himself out. Perhaps I just missed it, so a reminder would be appreciated. But I consider it hypocritical for the team leader (supposedly a leader by example type) to say the team is lacking effort on defense when his effort on that end is severely lacking as well.

The team INCLUDES HIM. People have explained this already. He doesn't have to say "the team and I".

 

[PapaG]

I don't believe you to be lacking reading comprehension. So for you to interpret what I said as saying Roy is "putting in no effort" is trolling. You clearly read that I was only questioning Roy's effort on defense, yet went on to imply that I'm crazy for saying Roy is not giving effort. How the fuck does that compute?

Nothing you are saying in this thread computes to me. Other than you criticizing Roy, of course. That's seems to be your m.o. in this thread.

 

[PapaG]

You clearly just want some e-drama. No, thanks.

I want some perspective. You're not giving me any of it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Yeah, damn Roy for not containing Carmelo Anthony, who plays a completely different position.

Run him out of PDX!!!

But Roy (SG, primarily) WAS guarding Anthony (SF, primarily) along with Miller (PG, primarily) and Outlaw (PF, primarily) for 15 minutes. During which time Anthony scored 24 points.

That means that either a) they weren't good enough defensively to do the job that Webster was doing, and should not have been substituted into that position (coach error), or b) that they were good enough, yet not applying the effort. I'll go along with you and say that each was giving 100% effort on the defensive end. "Completely different position" has absolutely no bearing here, since they WERE playing Carmelo Anthony's position.

 

[B-Roy]

I already acknowledged this.

Yes, and start playing some defense would be nice.

If he's gotta talk, works for me.

You have some crazy expectations for the players on and off the court. Can't even cross the line by a millimeter eh?

Keep in mind though, most players who have to carry Roy's offensive load don't really have the energy to work 100% on the defensive end. It took years for guys like Kobe to figure out the right amount of energy to expend on both ends. Guys like Melo, LeBron, and Wade, who have been in the league for 5+ years, are just starting to get it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I would submit that Roy doesn't HAVE to carry a huge offensive load. Heck, Travis is playing 25mpg and shooting a .444 shots per minute. During those 25min at least, Roy doesn't have to worry about "carrying the offensive load"--and I haven't even brought up LMA, or Webster, or Blake and Miller yet. Heaven forbid Oden gets more than a shot every 5 minutes.

IMHO, part of the blame for the losses and discombobulated play so far is on Roy for not understanding that this team has a bunch of weapons not named Brandon Roy. Perhaps he does and Nate's telling him otherwise. I don't know which. What I hypothesize is that if Roy went balls-to-the-wall on D like Webster's been doing for most of 5 games now, he'll still have sufficient energy to be good on offense--allowing that he might have to utilize other options than his 1-vs.-team more. (though I don't deny that that's been successful in getting some foul calls)

 

[PapaG]

OK. Brian and Ty have convinced me. Roy is to blame for the team's start, and he shouldn't be running his mouth to the media.

 

[B-Roy]

No, I just don't tolerate big talkers very well. I like Roy because he was leading by example. In this case, he's not doing it, but talk big about it.

How is saying "the team needs to get better on defense" him being a big talker? Like suddenly Roy becomes an arrogant bastard for saying such abominations.

True. But Roy played defense last season. He didn't talk much about it, he played it. For some reason, he's regressed on that end this season.

Ha, no he didn't. He looks basically the same on defense this season from last season.

 

[BrianFromWA]

whoa...how did I get lumped in with this?

Do I think Roy's gifted enough to play really tough D? Sure.
Do I think that his actions of "manning up" and playing tougher D would probably supersede his media commentary in having an effect on his teammates' effort level? I do.
DO I care that he's talking to the media? Nope
Do I think he's hypocritical or talking out of his ass? No.

And I'm pretty sure I've stated that I think Nate is way more to blame than any player for the team's start. I don't have any problem with how Roy's handled himself--I have a problem with how the team has played. Roy has a relatively unique ability and position to dial down his isolation offense amount and expend more energy on D, while utilizing other weapons on offense.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

How is saying "the team needs to get better on defense" him being a big talker? Like suddenly Roy becomes an arrogant bastard for saying such abominations.

Not to defend either position, but I think he means big talker in the context of the two player meetings he's had.

 

[B-Roy]

And I'm pretty sure I've stated that I think Nate is way more to blame than any player for the team's start. I don't have any problem with how Roy's handled himself--I have a problem with how the team has played. Roy has a relatively unique ability and position to dial down his isolation offense amount and expend more energy on D, while utilizing other weapons on offense.

I have yet to really see these other weapons (besides LA) play like, well, weapons. Miller, when given the chance, has taken far too many jump shots, and some of his drives have been absolutely horrible. Blake is playing very bad. Rudy, aside from abusing a midgit for 5 minutes, has been unable to get anything going. Outlaw is Outlaw, Joel is Joel. The only person you can make a legitimate case for is Oden.

 

[B-Roy]

Let's just stick with the words I actually used so far, okay? I said "hypocritical" and "stupid". Not "arrogant", not "abominations". If Juwan Howard had said what Roy said, I couldn't give a shit. But what Roy say, I actually gives a shit a little. I set higher standards for the team leader and our best player. To me, it's not good form for him to not give much effort on defense, yet harping about the team to give more of it. Just give more of it himself, and call out whoever is not giving enough effort. Seems straightforward enough to me.

How many times does it need to be said though? He's calling out himself along with the team. It's not hypocritical if he's calling out himself as well.

 

[PapaG]

Yes. Roy is to blame. He's everything wrong with this team. Let's get rid of him. You good with this?

I'm not the poster criticizing him, am I?

 

[B-Roy]

Refer to your suggestion of "the team lacks defensive intensity, but I suck the most" comment.

Refer back to my "your standards are much too high" comment. I can't believe this tiny detail is making you angry. Whatever.

 

[PapaG]

BTW, a link to this would be nice. Sorry, I tend to shy away from reading Quick and Canzano reports, so I probably just missed it.

So, which reports do you read? Or do you just criticize Roy based on your own interpretation of the situation?

 

[B-Roy]

I didn't know I was angry. Did Firefox released an add-on for detecting your emotion? That's awesome!

But what Roy say, I actually gives a shit a little.

Anger? Maybe not the right word, but the fact that you care enough to criticize Roy about this says enough.

 

[blue32]

Nah, I just want to get rid of Roy. However you interpret that, good by me.

 

[Blaze01]

Uncle Ty -

A couple mistakes....fiurst of all don't bother trying to have a civil conversation with Papa G....he is crazy...I am serious...just read his posts again...

Second of all, realize that the "fanboys" dominate this board...and ANY criticism of Roy will be met with hostility and complete blind\devoted defense of whatever he says\does and you will be labeled a hater....

It has gotten that pathetic on this board.....

I agree with you that Roy's defense has not been that great, although I think he is far from the worst culprit on the team....but the bigger point I agree with you is this apparent "I am the franchise player here" attitude the has shown lately....

Roy seems unable\unwilling? to adapt his game to a better\different style of backcourt mate (PG)....

This whole thing of starting Blake over Miller as a "comfort level" thing was a a ridiculous reason\excuse from Roy\Nate in the first place....

Hasn't Roy figured it out yet, that other teams have FIGURED HIM OUT? You know....5-7 seconds on the shot clock...get the ball to Roy and let him "do his thing".....

Uh....memo to Nate and to Roy....Other teams know what our pathetic offense is up to...they know to take the ball out of Brandon's hands....Wasn't that the reason to acquire a guy like Miller in the 1st place? You know, adding another guy who could CREATE for himself and others? So the burden didn't soley fall on Roy? Wasn't that the reasoning to give Rudy more minutes and let him create?

Or was it to NOT utilize those guys strengths in those areas and instead watch Roy struggle with defenses\double teams designed to take the ball out of his hands or make it damm difficult for him to score....and then rely on Steve Blake? to force...err...create a shot with 2 seconds left on the shot clock...or watch Travis Outlaw dribble the ball for 5-10 seconds before forcing up a shot attempt (Fadeaway jumper!!!).....

I mean is that the ultimate plan here? Is Charles Barkley a prophet when it comes to the Blazers or what?

We all understand that Roy is the "franchise" player...but even franchise players have to adapt THIER GAME if they truly want to win an NBA title....Roy doesn't seem to understand that yet....and Nate should know better

 

[PapaG]

I'm "crazy" because I feel that Uncle Ty is being irrational in his criticisms of Roy. That doesn't make a person a fanboi. I didn't make it through the rest of your post because the sentence structure was so poor I couldn't follow the case you were trying to make.