Rudy Gay may be available for S&T

[Chuck Taylor]

I wonder if the Blazers would be interested? He could be the third scorer we're looking for to take some pressure off Broy.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi...0516/grizzlies_might_sign_and_trade_rudy_gay/

 

[hasoos]

Try the second scorer. We currently have a #1 and a bunch of role players.

 

[craigehlo]

I've always liked Rudy Gay's game. He's not a #1 option, but he's a solid #2 scorer that attacks the rim and can shoot from distance. Adding him would make it difficult to double team Roy and LaSoftest in a playoff series.

 

[Minstrel]

Rudy Gay is only slightly better that Travis Outlaw. He just has a better name brand.

I think Outlaw or Gay would be a fine bench scorer, but Gay would want a role and salary appropriate to a star...because he's been hyped as one, despite never producing like one. And Memphis would charge a lot in trade, despite his on-court value not being that high.

So my opinion is definitely pass.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Rudy is looking for a max or close to that kind of contract. With Roy, LA and Oden . . . I don't know if the Blazers can afford to lock up another young player with a long and large contract.

 

[RoyToy]

Rudy Gay is only slightly better that Travis Outlaw. He just has a better name brand.

I think Outlaw or Gay would be a fine bench scorer, but Gay would want a role and salary appropriate to a star...because he's been hyped as one, despite never producing like one. And Memphis would charge a lot in trade, despite his on-court value not being that high.

So my opinion is definitely pass.

You rely on PER too much. By doing so you ignore than Gay is a much more complete player than Outlaw.

Gay would be nice, but at no more $10M, and that might be too steep, idk. It'll be interesting to see what he is offered.

 

[Blazinaway]

No thx, next?

 

[Minstrel]

You rely on PER too much. By doing so you ignore than Gay is a much more complete player than Outlaw.

I'm not ignoring anything. If you mean I rely on statistical data and not just flashy highlights, I agree. Gay is not a very good passer, and he's not a better rebounder than Outlaw. He's probably a worse defender than Outlaw, to boot.

I've watching him play plenty of times, both in college and the pros. I was actually quite high on Gay coming out of college, but he failed to translate potential into reality. I thought he'd be an excellent all-around player and had the tools to be a very good defender....instead, he's just a scorer and not a terribly efficient one.

 

[hasoos]

I'm not ignoring anything. If you mean I rely on statistical data and not just flashy highlights, I agree. Gay is not a very good passer, and he's not a better rebounder than Outlaw. He's probably a worse defender than Outlaw, to boot.

I've watching him play plenty of times, both in college and the pros. I was actually quite high on Gay coming out of college, but he failed to translate potential into reality. I thought he'd be an excellent all-around player and had the tools to be a very good defender....instead, he's just a scorer and not a terribly efficient one.

Actually you are ignoring one thing. Reality. Rudy Gay's offensive game is much more rounded then Travis's ever was. He has a much wider variety of moves and the ability to handle the ball, which gives him a much more versatile offensive game. He isn't limited to a jab step fade away jumper and 3 point shooting. He is also a much better finisher on the break.

 

[RoyToy]

Outlaw is also just a scorer and not a terribly efficient one, but he also doesn't have the ability to get to the hoop like Gay does, and then finish when he gets there. Gay is much better in both of these areas.

Neither are great man to man defenders, but Gay still has the ability to get in the passing lanes and create turnovers(1.5stls last year).

Gay is a much better all around player than Outlaw, something PER won't tell you. PER is just merely one tool of measuring a players ability and not even close to being the be all end all.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Is he still one of the worst defenders in the league?

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think if Batum was given the same scoring opportunities that Gay was given, he would have better stats. The SF in Nate's offense is probably the most underused possition on the floor. Not bashing, just observing

 

[RoyToy]

Let's also not forget you can legitimately play Gay at the SF spot while with Outlaw he has to play PF.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Actually you are ignoring one thing. Reality. Rudy Gay's offensive game is much more rounded then Travis's ever was. He has a much wider variety of moves and the ability to handle the ball, which gives him a much more versatile offensive game. He isn't limited to a jab step fade away jumper and 3 point shooting. He is also a much better finisher on the break.

All true - but is that enough to justify the difference in their price tags? If Gay was a UFA who was available for the MLE, that would be one thing - but Portland would have to give up talent in a trade, AND would be stuck with an (inflated) extension.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Gay is a much better all around player than Outlaw, something PER won't tell you. PER is just merely one tool of measuring a players ability and not even close to being the be all end all.

I agree, PER is seriously flawed. So how about its major competitor, +/-? Let's see, Travis's +/- per minute was .168 (better than everyone except Camby), while Gay's was all of 0.010, good for sixth best of that sorry franchise.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Let's also not forget you can legitimately play Gay at the SF spot while with Outlaw he has to play PF.

What do you mean "legitimately"? Both are poor dribblers for their position. Both can defend it, but only Travis tries.

Gay is a horrible player. Any team that signs him is going to be very sorry. Memphis may be a cheap team, but it wasn't cheapness that led them not to give him a qualifying offer. There's a good reason he's a UFA.

Last but not least, remember this?

 

[RoyToy]

I agree, PER is seriously flawed. So how about its major competitor, +/-? Let's see, Travis's +/- per minute was .168 (better than everyone except Camby), while Gay's was all of 0.010, good for sixth best of that sorry franchise.

All I have to say about that stat.

 

[STOMP]

Let's also not forget you can legitimately play Gay at the SF spot while with Outlaw he has to play PF.

this is a myth that has been debunked many times. There have been several games where Travis has started at the 3 and done well... you can easily look those up

On offense both Travis and Rudy are wings with their games oriented on the perimeter as opposed to the high or low post. On D both are mediocre at best no matter who they guard. That Nate chose to often have TO guarding post players more then perimeter players was usually because he'd want a speed mismatch on the other end... that and Portland didn't have another good backup PF option

STOMP

 

[RoyToy]

What do you mean "legitimately"? Both are poor dribblers for their position. Both can defend it, but only Travis tries.

Gay is a horrible player. Any team that signs him is going to be very sorry. Memphis may be a cheap team, but it wasn't cheapness that led them not to give him a qualifying offer. There's a good reason he's a UFA.

It's hard to take you seriously right now.

 

[Minstrel]

Outlaw is also just a scorer and not a terribly efficient one

It doesn't contradict what I said. I never argued Outlaw was better. In fact, I said Gay was slightly better.

but he also doesn't have the ability to get to the hoop like Gay does, and then finish when he gets there. Gay is much better in both of these areas.

Actually you are ignoring one thing. Reality. Rudy Gay's offensive game is much more rounded then Travis's ever was. He has a much wider variety of moves and the ability to handle the ball, which gives him a much more versatile offensive game. He isn't limited to a jab step fade away jumper and 3 point shooting. He is also a much better finisher on the break.

"More well-rounded offensive game" is meaningless if it doesn't translate to significantly superior on-court production. Steve Nash has a much, much, much more well-rounded offensive game than a prime Shaquille O'Neal, but a prime O'Neal was much, much more effective.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

All I have to say about that stat.

You don't understand why Camby is important?

It's hard to take you seriously right now.

Cogently argued.

 

[RoyToy]

"More well-rounded offensive game" is meaningless if it doesn't translate to significantly superior on-court production. Steve Nash has a much, much, much more well-rounded offensive game than a prime Shaquille O'Neal, but a prime O'Neal was much, much more effective.

In my case I'm comparing a 6-9 F to a 6-9 F. You're comparing a 6-1 PG to a 7-1 C. There's a difference.

 

[RoyToy]

You don't understand why Camby is important?

....

No, the fact that Outlaw was having a down season and still had the best +/- or w/e it was after Camby. Yup, Outlaw was a better player than Roy,Aldridge, and yes, even Oden.

Cogently argued.

It's the truth.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

In my case I'm comparing a 6-9 F to a 6-9 F. You're comparing a 6-1 PG to a 7-1 C. There's a difference.

Rik Smits had a much more well-rounded offensive game than Shaq. Hell, Stanley Roberts had a much more well-rounded offensive game than Shaq, and Shaq even agreed!

 

[RoyToy]

Rik Smits had a much more well-rounded offensive game than Shaq. Hell, Stanley Roberts had a much more well-rounded offensive game than Shaq, and Shaq even agreed!

Smits didn't average more pts than Shaq, have a better career FG%, and get to the line more. Sorry.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

No, the fact that Outlaw was having a down season and still had the best +/- or w/e it was after Camby. Yup, Outlaw was a better player than Roy,Aldridge, and yes, even Oden.

Define "better player". All it shows is that the team did better with him on the floor.

It's the truth.

It may be a true statement about you, but it doesn't say anything about me and it doesn't affect what I've said about Rudy Gay. You seem to think that whether or not you take somebody seriously means something.

 

[Minstrel]

In my case I'm comparing a 6-9 F to a 6-9 F. You're comparing a 6-1 PG to a 7-1 C. There's a difference.

The principle is the same: what matters is what you do...not how you do it. It doesn't matter if Gay has a thousand more ways to score the basketball if, in the end, he's only slightly more efficient in actually putting the ball in the hoop.

Amateur or professional scouting of players, and the "tools" they have, matters when you're evaluating prospects and trying to project them into the NBA. Once they actually have a significant NBA track record, "tools" don't matter...what matters is what they're actually doing. Gay has many more tools than Outlaw...it's a shame that he seemingly isn't able to translate them into being a dynamic all-around player.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Smits didn't average more pts than Shaq, have a better career FG%, and get to the line more. Sorry.

So if there was a 9 foot tall, 500lb giant, who could park himself under the hoop and dunk it every time (and get fouled every time) but couldn't do ANYTHING ELSE, then he'd have a "well-rounded offensive game"?

 

[RoyToy]

Define "better player". All it shows is that the team did better with him on the floor.

And you used the stat to make a case for Outlaw over Gay.

It may be a true statement about you, but it doesn't say anything about me and it doesn't affect what I've said about Rudy Gay. You seem to think that whether or not you take somebody seriously means something.

Sure.

 

[RoyToy]

The principle is the same: what matters is what you do...not how you do it. It doesn't matter if Gay has a thousand more ways to score the basketball if, in the end, he's only slightly more efficient in actually putting the ball in the hoop.

Amateur or professional scouting of players, and the "tools" they have, matters when you're evaluating prospects and trying to project them into the NBA. Once they actually have a significant NBA track record, "tools" don't matter...what matters is what they're actually doing. Gay has many more tools than Outlaw...it's a shame that he seemingly isn't able to translate them into being a dynamic all-around player.

Gay averages 17ppg for his career while Outlaw is still in single digits. I'd say that shows what they're actually doing, and shows that being a more complete player is the reason why Gay starts and get those shots. You can make the playing time/# of shots argument, but this team wasn't a playoff team for the longest time while Outlaw was here and he could never secure the SF spot. Hell, McMillan elected to go with Batum after game 1 of the 2008-2009 season after Outlaw proved once again he isn't worth heavy minutes or a starting spot.