Ruffin to Portland (Merged)

[WWBRoyD]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

My attempt at the math... to see if Portland would save money.

I'm going to use "half" of the season, even though there is less than that remaining.

Ike Costs:
$1.45m (half of 2.9)
$5.8m (twice 2.9; luxury tax hit since we are over it by about $8 before this deal)
Total Ike Costs: $7.25m

Ruffin Costs:
$1m (acquisition cost; sent to Sacramento in the trade)
$0.57m (half of 1.14, his "real" salary)
$1.6m (twice 0.8, his "cap" salary as a veteran at the minimum)
Total Ruffin Costs: $3.15m

TOTAL SAVINGS: $4.1m

The cost savings are significant... if we do, say, 40% or 33% the same basic result should occur...

Ed O.

That makes much more sense. Thanks.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Here's the deal... I think.

As I said earlier, there are two reasons to believe that that's not what happened.
1. The report said "in a separate deal"
2. The report said that Ruffin came from the KINGS, not from the Bulls.

So I think that the Bulls sent Ruffin to the Kings along with the others (it works, I checked) in a strictly Kings-Bulls exchange, then the Kings turned round and sent Ruffin to Portland for Ike.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Guys, guys...

It's Ike to CHI for Ruffin straight up. CHI uses 2.9M of their 5.2M Joe Smith exception. We get a 2.9M Exception back, since Ruffin is a vet Min player.

We then waive Ruffin.

It's basically Ike for a 2.9M TE.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b5gxwc

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

My attempt at the math... to see if Portland would save money.

I'm going to use "half" of the season, even though there is less than that remaining.

Ike Costs:
$1.45m (half of 2.9)
$5.8m (twice 2.9; luxury tax hit since we are over it by about $8 before this deal)
Total Ike Costs: $7.25m

Isn't the luxury tax a dollar for dollar thing? So isn't Ike's total cost, with LT, $5.8? Which would need to be pro-rated for the amount of season left.

And same for Ruffin.

 

[alex42083]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Ruffin hasn't played this season because of an achilles injury. Maybe we are hoping to use him as another injury insurance payout.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that was what Canzano said. Insurance will pay part of Ruffin's salary too. But still kind of weird that we've gone from buyers with this good looking RLEC to want to save a few million.

 

[Haakzilla]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

But still kind of weird that we've gone from buyers with this good looking RLEC to want to save a few million.

smoke-screens?!

 

[PapaG]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Wait a second, I thought the luxury tax was imposed at 1:1... it's at 2:1? Or am I just proving myself to be a math dunce?

That's how I understood it as well. Basically, the team pays $1 for every dollar over the cap. In this trade, Portland is already sending out $1 million, so at most $2 million is saved in tax money, correct? Not chump change by any stretch and apparently worth a trade exception, but I have to believe this is a Tom Penn move that sets up another treade. Not using RLEC basically amounts to a cap hit w/out production this year.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Again, confused. Would this be savings against the cap next season?

No... since both are expiring contracts, and presumably Ike would have been renounced, our cap situation should be the same in either case.

We get to save nearly two million bucks of Paul Allen's REAL money, and we get a trade exception that we can use to get a player within the next year.

Ed O.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

And if I need to say it, 2.9M of free money to some teams is gold. We got Rudy and James Jones for about that.

 

[ehizzy3]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

im so confused.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

As I said earlier, there are two reasons to believe that that's not what happened.
1. The report said "in a separate deal"
2. The report said that Ruffin came from the KINGS, not from the Bulls.

So I think that the Bulls sent Ruffin to the Kings along with the others (it works, I checked) in a strictly Kings-Bulls exchange, then the Kings turned round and sent Ruffin to Portland for Ike.

The initial report isn't correct, I don't believe.

Ruffin CANNOT be packaged with others for two months. He needs to be sent on his own or as part of the initial deal.

Ed O.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Oh do you know the Ruffin man,
The Ruffin man, the Ruffin man?
Oh do you know the Rmuffin man,
That lives in Dengy Lane?

Yes I know the Ruffin man,
The Ruffin man, the Ruffin man.
Yes I know the Ruffin man,
That lives in Dengy Lane.

(At the corner of Hinrich blvd.)

 

[MAS RipCity]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

There is always a method to KP AND TP's madness..hell even Wafer turned out to be a tud

 

[The Professional Fan]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

No... since both are expiring contracts, and presumably Ike would have been renounced, our cap situation should be the same in either case.

We get to save nearly two million bucks of Paul Allen's REAL money, and we get a trade exception that we can use to get a player within the next year.

Ed O.

Thanks Ed. I like that answer. Just making sure we aren't trying to free up additional cap space for next season because we're ultimately going to lose the RLEC with nothing in return.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

That's how I understood it as well. Basically, the team pays $1 for every dollar over the cap. In this trade, Portland is already sending out $1 million, so at most $2 million is saved in tax money, correct? Not chump change by any stretch and apparently worth a trade exception, but I have to believe this is a Tom Penn move that sets up another treade. Not using RLEC basically amounts to a cap hit w/out production this year.

Getting a trade exception doesn't do us much good as part of a bigger deal... they can't be combined or packaged with players. It could be used as part of a tandem of deals, but it's tough to make a BIG deal with a $2m side deal that's critical as a component.

And, yes, I messed up with the luxury tax hit in my post previously

Ed O.

 

[ehizzy3]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

so......whens the press conference greeting ruffin to rip city?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Unless KP thinks Ruffin is ready to have a break out year . . . at 32 years old.

Career 1.8 PPG/4 Rbs

HOWEVER, his free throw percentage is almost up to 40% this year. Yeah, he'd fit right in.

 

[MIXUM]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

some are saying ruffin has laready been waived lol????

free up a roster spot????

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Not chump change by any stretch and apparently worth a trade exception, but I have to believe this is a Tom Penn move that sets up another treade. Not using RLEC basically amounts to a cap hit w/out production this year.

I think this is a great move, really. What it does is convert a $3 million expiring contract into $2 million instant savings for another team we trade with. Expirings are nice, but immediate savings are even better.

Combined with the insurance on Raef, Portland can now offer about $6.5 million in immediate cash savings to another team, in addition to plenty of expiring cash. Which is a big deal.

 

[alex42083]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Tough for Ike. Though he was a good sport about not playing and noticed him cheering on his mates a lot during games.

 

[Webster's Dictionary]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

I think it's pretty obvious that this helps set up another trade. Another trade is coming.

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

The championship piece has arrived!

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Getting a trade exception doesn't do us much good as part of a bigger deal... they can't be combined or packaged with players. It could be used as part of a tandem of deals, but it's tough to make a BIG deal with a $2m side deal that's critical as a component.

Are you certain? My understanding is that Chicago would be packaging a trade exception gained from a Joe Smith deal with Ruffin in exchange for Diogu.

 

[WWBRoyD]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

No... since both are expiring contracts, and presumably Ike would have been renounced, our cap situation should be the same in either case.

We get to save nearly two million bucks of Paul Allen's REAL money, and we get a trade exception that we can use to get a player within the next year.

Ed O.

Weren't we supposed to be in that "cap hold" situation with Diogu this summer if we let his contract expire?

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

some are saying ruffin has laready been waived lol????

free up a roster spot????

Actually, this is a pretty good point... we save money and we are able to immediately open up another spot.

We could have waived Ike, but then we wouldn't have been able to make this deal. We've squeezed all of the value out of Ruffin we're going to get, so... byebye?

Ed O.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

I think this is a great move, really. What it does is convert a $3 million expiring contract into $2 million instant savings for another team we trade with. Expirings are nice, but immediate savings are even better.

Combined with the insurance on Raef, Portland can now offer about $6.5 million in immediate cash savings to another team, in addition to plenty of expiring cash. Which is a big deal.

 

[Kaydow]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

I think this is a great move, really. What it does is convert a $3 million expiring contract into $2 million instant savings for another team we trade with. Expirings are nice, but immediate savings are even better.

Combined with the insurance on Raef, Portland can now offer about $6.5 million in immediate cash savings to another team, in addition to plenty of expiring cash. Which is a big deal.

And if you don't come see KP today, he can't save you any money!

 

[hasoos]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

The championship piece has arrived!

We traded for Lebron?

 

[alex42083]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

so......whens the press conference greeting ruffin to rip city?

Press conference? Screw that. We need to throw a big G.O.-like Pioneer Place rally with a parade on the MAX

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Are you certain? My understanding is that Chicago would be packaging a trade exception gained from a Joe Smith deal with Ruffin in exchange for Diogu.

I'm not 100% sure, but I am reasonably so:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q69

There are some common misconceptions about non-simultaneous trades. For one, teams cannot use a Traded Player exception to sign free agents; it can be used only to acquire existing contracts from other teams. For another, teams cannot combine a Traded Player exception with other exceptions (such as the Mid-Level exception or the 125% plus $100,000 margin from another trade) in order to trade for a more expensive player. For example, a team with a $1 million Traded Player exception cannot combine it with their $2 million player to trade for a $3 million player (see question number 72 for more information on combining exceptions).

(Emphasis added.)

Ed O.