Ruffin to Portland (Merged) (1 Viewer)

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Tough for Ike. Though he was a good sport about not playing and noticed him cheering on his mates a lot during games.

Yeah, he got hosed here.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

95.5 reporting we through in 1 million cash on this deal. We wanted that trade exception, it wasn't about saving money............

 

[hasoos]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Yeah, he got hosed here.

Ike may be the best guy in the world. He is payed a lot of money, to play basketball, and not even play most of the time. He knows how to party and have a good time, I am sure he will "survive".

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

95.5 reporting we through in 1 million cash on this deal. We wanted that trade exception, it wasn't about saving money............

We save money even if we throw in a million bucks. Without that money, Sacramento might not do the deal.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Actually, this is a pretty good point... we save money and we are able to immediately open up another spot.

We could have waived Ike, but then we wouldn't have been able to make this deal. We've squeezed all of the value out of Ruffin we're going to get, so... byebye?

Ed O.

That's hilarious when you think about it. Thanks for the TE, Mike, now don't bother showing up and continue to enjoy your vacation!

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

I'm not 100% sure, but I am reasonably so:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q69



(Emphasis added.)

His example seems to not be supported by the rule he states. He said exceptions cannot be combined, not that exceptions cannot be combined in trade with players.

You can't use it with the "125% + $100,000" exception, but the rule he states doesn't seem to forbid combining a trade exception with a player in exchange for another player where the salaries match.

Hmm. Interesting. I'm a bit confused. I guess Tom Penn will figure it out.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

His example seems not be supported by the rule he states. He said exceptions cannot be combined, not that exceptions cannot be combined in trade with players.

You can't use it with the "125% + $100,000" exception, but the rule he states doesn't seem to forbid combining a trade exception with a player in exchange for another player where the salaries match.

Hmm. Interesting. I'm a bit confused. I guess Tom Penn will figure it out.

It IS confusing. Both the rule and the FAQ's language.

Ed O.

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

I know we have Tom Penn and he's great and all, but I just can't see the Blazers burning up the phone lines to save a couple million bucks. I can't think of them EVER doing a deal just to save money in the past. I really think it is for a trade exception and something else is brewing.

 

[WWBRoyD]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

95.5 reporting we through in 1 million cash on this deal. We wanted that trade exception, it wasn't about saving money............

Part of it might have been "Christmas in Feb" for the Kings from Santa Paul.

Kings are so cash-poor they have forbidden staff from working overtime, sent out a memo there will be no additional salaries taken on, and even forbidden staff from eating any food at the press buffet table.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

There are some common misconceptions about non-simultaneous trades. For one, teams cannot use a Traded Player exception to sign free agents; it can be used only to acquire existing contracts from other teams. For another, teams cannot combine a Traded Player exception with other exceptions (such as the Mid-Level exception or the 125% plus $100,000 margin from another trade) in order to trade for a more expensive player. For example, a team with a $1 million Traded Player exception cannot combine it with their $2 million player to trade for a $3 million player (see question number 72 for more information on combining exceptions).

Basically, the trade exception can't be used as "filler" to make a trade equal. What if the exception actually fits in to a existing deal and has no impact on the 125% plus $100k?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Guys, guys...

It's Ike to CHI for Ruffin straight up. CHI uses 2.9M of their 5.2M Joe Smith exception. We get a 2.9M Exception back, since Ruffin is a vet Min player.

We then waive Ruffin.

It's basically Ike for a 2.9M TE.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b5gxwc


And if I need to say it, 2.9M of free money to some teams is gold. We got Rudy and James Jones for about that.

Repost. TE's are almost better than Raef, b/c you get to save 2.9M off of 2.9M, not 80%.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

I know we have Tom Penn and he's great and all, but I just can't see the Blazers burning up the phone lines to save a couple million bucks. I can't think of them EVER doing a deal just to save money in the past. I really think it is for a trade exception and something else is brewing.

I assume they're just being efficient. I also think the trade exception was the thing (but then, if it can't be used with players in a trade, which I'm unsure of, it's not useful), but I think the team would be happy to do a deal that doesn't hurt the team and saves cash. To me, an ideal owner-GM relationship would be that the GM tries to optimize costs when he can and the owner pays money when the GM needs him to.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

You set up trades the most advantageous way to both parts. So if we do a 3-for-3 trade, but it's better for the other team to do a 3-for-2 and a TE-for-1, or a 2nd-rounder+TE for one.

 

[e_blazer]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

The deal works just fine if it's a single three-way trade. My guess is that's the case and it's just not being reported correctly.

The question is whether this is just a salary dump to clear more cap space for the summer and save luxury tax and salary this year, or if it's part of a larger move to clear a roster spot.

I love this time of year...except for the MIXUM rants.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Repost. TE's are almost better than Raef, b/c you get to save 2.9M off of 2.9M, not 80%.

The question seems to be whether the TE can be used in combination with players in a trade. Larry Coon's FAQ is hazy on the issue to me. The rule he states doesn't seem to forbid it, but the example he gives does.

 

[MIXUM]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

im sure the TE is part of another deal... has to be

like i said... when ruffin is waived... it will free up roster space for more guys coming back and we get a TE.


its just odd taht all of asudden with less then 24 hours to the deadline... we trade for a TE

 

[ehizzy3]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

from espn

Chad Ford: Two days ago it looked like Blazers GM Kevin Pritchard, armed with Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract, would be the focal point of the trade deadline. However, as of Wednesday afternoon it is still unclear what, if anything, the Blazers are going to do.

Sources say the Bobcats turned down a Blazers offer for Gerald Wallace Wednesday afternoon. Sources also say the Vince Carter-to-the-Blazers talk has cooled considerably.

If Wallace is out and the Blazers are cooling to Carter, that puts the most likely Blazers trade scenario with Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson. The teams have previously discussed swapping Jefferson and Luke Ridnour for LaFrentz and Travis Outlaw.

While there has been significant chatter around the league Wednesday afternoon that Portland was closing in on a deal for Jefferson, sources from both teams insist that it isn't true. In fact, a Bucks source told ESPN.com that Milwaukee hasn't heard from the Blazers in a while.

Another source conceded on Wednesday afternoon that there's now a chance the Blazers might not do anything before the trade deadline. Instead they would take the savings from LaFrentz's contract and try to make a deal in free agency this summer. While the Blazers won't be flush with cash, they should have somewhere between $7-9 million in room depending on where the cap comes in.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

The question seems to be whether the TE can be used in combination with players in a trade. Larry Coon's FAQ is hazy on the issue to me. The rule he states doesn't seem to forbid it, but the example he gives does.

Well, if we use the RJ/Ridnour for RLEC/Sergio/Outlaw deal, a $2.9 million TE still fits into the deal without having to use another exception.

Seems like it would work to me?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cu3bnt

Milwaukee takes in $17.6 million w/out TE, $20.5 million w/TE

Portland takes in $19.7 million regardless. This trade works with or w/out the TE, and no other exceptions are needed.

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

The question seems to be whether the TE can be used in combination with players in a trade. Larry Coon's FAQ is hazy on the issue to me. The rule he states doesn't seem to forbid it, but the example he gives does.

Here's a pretty good article on it, quoting Larry Coon in more depth:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=10274

Ed O.

 

[maxiep]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Tough for Ike. Though he was a good sport about not playing and noticed him cheering on his mates a lot during games.

We're doing him a favor. He gets minutes on a bad team where he can get points and rebounds. It sets him up to get more money next year.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Only time will tell...

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Well, if we use the RJ/Ridnour for RLEC/Sergio/Outlaw deal, a $2.9 million TE still fits into the deal without having to use another exception.

Seems like it would work to me?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cu3bnt

Milwaukee takes in $17.6 million w/out TE, $20.5 million w/TE

Portland takes in $19.7 million regardless. This trade works with or w/out the TE, and no other exceptions are needed.

Perhaps. That could be consistent with the salary cap FAQ. In that case, Portland would be setting up a deal where Portland takes a bit more salary to start with, so that the deal stays within the 125% with or without the TE.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

The West is weak NOW, I want our guys to make it through the firstround, it'll really go along ways in gaining experience..as long as we dont bet the house, we need to make a trade

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

im sure the TE is part of another deal... has to be

like i said... when ruffin is waived... it will free up roster space for more guys coming back and we get a TE.


its just odd taht all of asudden with less then 24 hours to the deadline... we trade for a TE

TE's good for a year. (Like, say, Draft Day). KP can do some GM Magic with 2.9M in free money added to 3M cash.

 

[Blaze01]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

You know, if this is part of a larger deal (which I think it is)...then kudos to Prithcard & Penn for effectively confusing everyone as to what they are up to.....


I am not a big fan of Jefferson....less of Ridnour...Carter, I find appealing, but not for the rumoured ransom that Thorn wants for him...I can't see CHI dealing Deng, even though adding Salmons is a little curious....Hope for Butler....I have no idea...just enjoying the roller coaster ride....

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Here's a pretty good article on it, quoting Larry Coon in more depth:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=10274

Ah ha! Thanks. That clears it up.

So, if Portland traded the TE with RLEC, they'd have two "slots" that they could use to fit incoming players into. Which isn't a problem. Portland wouldn't be using the TE as a way to make salaries match, just as a goodie for the other team. They could trade this TE for some $2.5 million crap the other team has and trade RLEC+more for the actual object of their desire. Portland doesn't need to combine the two "slots."

Result: Portland gets who they want and the other team gets both RLEC (including the 80% cash savings) and the TE (more cash savings).

 

[Ed O]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Ah ha! Thanks. That clears it up.

So, if Portland traded the TE with RLEC, they'd have two "slots" that they could use to fit incoming players into. Which isn't a problem. Portland wouldn't be using the TE as a way to make salaries match, just as a goodie for the other team. They could trade this TE for some $2.5 million crap the other team has and trade RLEC+more for the actual object of their desire. Portland doesn't need to "combine" the two "slots."

Result: Portland gets who they want and the other team gets both RLEC (including the 80% cash savings) and the TE (more cash savings).

Yes!

It allows Portland to sweeten things a bit by taking back crap... but not by giving up less salary than they normally could.

I think I might have just confused myself a bit more. But I know what I mean.

Ed O.

 

[free_lafrentz]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

Ah ha! Thanks. That clears it up.

So, if Portland traded the TE with RLEC, they'd have two "slots" that they could use to fit incoming players into. Which isn't a problem. Portland wouldn't be using the TE as a way to make salaries match, just as a goodie for the other team. They could trade this TE for some $2.5 million crap the other team has and trade RLEC+more for the actual object of their desire. Portland doesn't need to "combine" the two "slots."

Result: Portland gets who they want and the other team gets both RLEC (including the 80% cash savings) and the TE (more cash savings).

The "cash savings" aspect of a trade with Portland HAS to look very appealing. Especially if you're the Bucks.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

It doesn't HAVE to be crap. For instance, our 2.9 exception could get us Joe Alexander added to the RJeff trade.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Ruffin to Portland

The "cash savings" aspect of a trade with Portland HAS to look very appealing. Especially if you're the Bucks.

Yup. It seems like Portland could give a team somewhere between $6.5 - 7 million of instant cash savings. That seems huge right now...especially for a team that is over the luxury tax level by less than that amount.