Rumor: Blazers discussions with Suns

[MikeDC]

WTF are you even talking about?

1) WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU FORGO TRADING AND GETTING VALUE FOR A GUY WHO WILL LEAVE FOR NOTHING IN 2010?

2) WHERE THE FUCK DID I SAY THAT THE SUNS SHOULD RE-TOOL AROUND SHAQ AND NASH? THEY SHOULD TRADE THEM TOO!

3) What 'blows my theory out of the water', champ? You think building franchises around guys who are a lock to leave in a year and a half is a good way to do business, as opposed to trading that player in question, along with the two players approaching 40, and getting some semblance of value before they leave town for jack shit in 2010, is a good way to run a franchise? That would leave you with a future of Leandro Barbosa, Robin Lopez, Goran Dragic, and Alando Tucker. One mother fucker of a business plan there.

Keyboard broken?

 

[Minstrel]

I'd guess it's very system oriented, but Amare has seen his ORtg decline (117 to 99) at the same time as his usage rate, which suggests he's playing all around worse.

Where are you getting your ORtg data? Basketball Reference has it as:

2007-08: 124
2008-09: 114

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html

So, Amare last year had both a high usage rate and very high offensive rating. This year, both have declined. I'd say that relationship is inconclusive. IMO, he definitely has the ability to be both a volume scorer and an efficient scorer at the same time. Outside of his microfracture surgery year, his usage rate and his offensive rating have had a generally proportional relationship: they've gone up and down together.

I think the issue is more that he's being used poorly by Porter this year.

 

[JE]

Keyboard broken?

???

 

[Reep]

???

He might be commenting on your SHOUTING in the forum.

 

[JE]

He might be commenting on your SHOUTING in the forum.

As long as I'm heard.

 

[Da_O]

I don't know if this has been posted already but I'm going to anyway
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11524

"Let's just be real clear: Portland will listen to any offer Phoenix wants to throw their way. They probably listened when Phoenix threw out the idea of Raef LaFrentz's contract, rookie point guard Jerryd Bayless, forward LaMarcus Aldridge, and possibly picks or draft rights for Stoudemire and maybe some change. General Manager Kevin Pritchard would not be doing his job if he did not listen."

"In short, receiving Stoudemire would kill Portland's flexibility and not address their actual needs. How exactly does that make sense from Portland's perspective? Power forward is not a position of need for them, and Aldridge has great chemistry on offense with Brandon Roy and defense with Greg Oden."

"No matter what you read about this trade scenario, think of this: If it were truly on the table and Portland had presented it, don't you think it would be a done deal by now? And since it's not, doesn't that logically tell you all you need to know about this scenario?"

 

[Minstrel]

My thinking on this has changed since reading about how desperate Sarver sounds. I'm back to wanting Amare without giving up any of the big three. Chicago's deal is supposedly the best and is headlined by Tyrus Thomas. No way LMA should be involved, then.

 

[Reep]

You can easily see this as a bargaining strategy by KP.

Easter GM: "Wow, Portland is going to trade RLEC and have to give away Aldridge too? We can offer them a better deal where they won't have to give up Aldridge and get the savings ourselves."

[Insert slapping sound]

 

[ehizzy3]

My thinking on this has changed since reading about how desperate Sarver sounds. I'm back to wanting Amare without giving up any of the big three. Chicago's deal is supposedly the best and is headlined by Tyrus Thomas. No way LMA should be involved, then.

outlaw is better than thomas....i wonder how much value kopponen has

 

[Reep]

outlaw is better than thomas....i wonder how much value kopponen has

I really dislike Thomas, but he clearly has more value than Outlaw. He has averaged something like 18 pts, 11 reb and 2 blocks in the last month or so. Outlaw couldn't do that no matter how many minutes you gave him.

Having said that, you have to wonder how interested the Suns are in an immature athletic type, when they are trading away the one they have.

 

[ehizzy3]

I really dislike Thomas, but he clearly has more value than Outlaw. He has averaged something like 18 pts, 11 reb and 2 blocks in the last month or so. Outlaw couldn't do that no matter how many minutes you gave him.

Having said that, you have to wonder how interested the Suns are in an immature athletic type, when they are trading away the one they have.

i didn't know he was producing those numbers

 

[rocketeer]

Ellis and Wright is a great starting point, and probably as much talent as they'll get back in an Amare trade. Out of the three wing players GS would likely have to include to make salaries work (Crawford, Jackson, Maggette), Crawford's deal expires first.

i don't think there is a team in the league interested in monta ellis until he proves that he's back to the player he was preinjury. obviously, at an extreme discount teams would have interest but i don't see how golden state could hope to use monta to actually get a better player in return with his huge contract when his play has not been up to par at all.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I have finally figured out the LMA part of the rumor!!!!


It's another joke by HCP, this time he fed it to the national media!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

haha...he called from a blazers phone number and it came up on CBS' caller ID so it must be true!

 

[rocketeer]

I really dislike Thomas, but he clearly has more value than Outlaw. He has averaged something like 18 pts, 11 reb and 2 blocks in the last month or so. Outlaw couldn't do that no matter how many minutes you gave him.

those are his averages for the month of february. the bulls have played 4 games so far this month.

his numbers for the month of january were 11 points, 6 rebounds, 2 blocks, 46% shooting, 29 minutes. decent numbers, but nothing special.

 

[hasoos]

I think Hoopshype and hoopsworld just keep throwing the Blazers out there on their main page so that they will get 8 billion refreshes per day. All that advertising adds up you know!

 

[Reep]

those are his averages for the month of february. the bulls have played 4 games so far this month.

his numbers for the month of january were 11 points, 6 rebounds, 2 blocks, 46% shooting, 29 minutes. decent numbers, but nothing special.

Still better than Outlaw though. I think the feeling is Thomas is starting to break out. I never have liked him wouldn't touch him with a ten foot goal. But, I think people see him as Dennis Rodman with a [small] offensive game. Outlaw is what he is and it probably isn't going to change much from here on out.

 

[rocketeer]

Still better than Outlaw though. I think the feeling is Thomas is starting to break out. I never have liked him wouldn't touch him with a ten foot goal. But, I think people see him as Dennis Rodman with a [small] offensive game. Outlaw is what he is and it probably isn't going to change much from here on out.

one thing i think teams really have to consider when acquiring a guy like thomas(or really just any big man that hasn't proven his exact value) is that as soon as his contract is up whether he has improved any more or not, he's going to want a huge deal.

and i really don't think that thomas can be considered as someone who has even a small offensive game. he shoots 37% on shots that are inside 7 feet but not dunks(or tips where he's even worse). he shoots 35% on shots outside of 7 feet. so basically, all he can do is dunk the ball.

 

[BIG Q]

I really dislike Thomas, but he clearly has more value than Outlaw. He has averaged something like 18 pts, 11 reb and 2 blocks in the last month or so. Outlaw couldn't do that no matter how many minutes you gave him.

Having said that, you have to wonder how interested the Suns are in an immature athletic type, when they are trading away the one they have.

That last month is just the four games he has played in the month of February. He averaged 10.8/5.8 in January, and 9.7/5.3 in December.

 

[MikeDC]

Where are you getting your ORtg data? Basketball Reference has it as:

2007-08: 124
2008-09: 114

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html

Beats me.. I just forgot the numbers when I looked them up somehow and wrote them in wrond.

So, Amare last year had both a high usage rate and very high offensive rating. This year, both have declined. I'd say that relationship is inconclusive. IMO, he definitely has the ability to be both a volume scorer and an efficient scorer at the same time. Outside of his microfracture surgery year, his usage rate and his offensive rating have had a generally proportional relationship: they've gone up and down together.

I think the issue is more that he's being used poorly by Porter this year.

I agree he's been used poorly this year, I was just trying to shed light on the better rating to use. I think ORtg is the right comparison. For most players it's an inverse relationship at least according to guys on APBR.

The fact they haven't been for Amare is evidence of just how good he's been. But there's also reason to believe it might not just be Porter's system. I do have lots of questions about Amare. I really don't know how he holds up over the long run. It could be Porter's system, or it could be that he's losing some explosion. It could be both.

 

[Minstrel]

I agree he's been used poorly this year, I was just trying to shed light on the better rating to use. I think ORtg is the right comparison. For most players it's an inverse relationship at least according to guys on APBR.

Yeah, that makes sense. The fewer possessions you use, the more you can take just the easier opportunities, driving up your success rate. The more you use, the more you have to start taking tougher opportunities, since there are only a limited number of easier chances to score.

Amare's current year prevents him from being a no-risk stud, but I think he should still generally be seen as a pretty major impact player. It's worth noting, though, that he has flaws to his game that might prevent him from being the same performer on every team. I think his range is probably from All-Star reserve to down-ballot MVP candidate. Which Amare you get will have something to do with the personnel around him and the system.

 

[Shapecity]

Ken Berger, CBSSports.com: "The Portland Trail Blazers have made a strong play for Amare Stoudemire, discussing a package that includes LaMarcus Aldridge, Jerryd Bayless, and Raef LeFrentz's $12.7 million expiring contract, a person with direct knowledge of the talks told CBSSports.com Tuesday.

Easily the best offer for Amare up to this point. No way I make this deal if I'm Portland.

 

[Reep]

Right now Amare is 27 and 6 with 3 blocks . . . and a team worst -20 (+/-). That's what scares me about him.

 

[alex42083]

Right now Amare is 27 and 6 with 3 blocks . . . and a team worst -20 (+/-). That's what scares me about him.

Wow... Suns are getting demolished. Mo Williams with 44, on 18-26 FG, 7-9 3-pts.

Phoenix is tanking, and only a matter of time before they start their rebuilding and we get into the playoffs. I don't think we'll be trading for Amare..

 

[Minstrel]

Wow... Suns are getting demolished. Mo Williams with 44, on 18-26 FG, 7-9 3-pts.

Phoenix is tanking, and only a matter of time before they start their rebuilding and we get into the playoffs. I don't think we'll be trading for Amare..

Why? The more they tank, the more likely Sarver is going to demand Kerr dump Amare for salary relief, IMO. I think it increases Portland's chance to snag Amare for a song.

 

[alex42083]

Why? The more they tank, the more likely Sarver is going to demand Kerr dump Amare for salary relief, IMO. I think it increases Portland's chance to snag Amare for a song.

I just don't want him the more I think about it. I'd rather have LaMarcus. But if we were to deal with Phoenix, I'd rather it be a three-way and have us net something else without giving up LMA.

 

[Minstrel]

I just don't want him the more I think about it. I'd rather have LaMarcus. But if we were to deal with Phoenix, I'd rather it be a three-way and have us net something else without giving up LMA.

Yeah, by "for a song" I meant not including LMA. A three-way trade would be ideal. More point guards and small forwards will be in play if we can dangle Amare.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

A little birdie told me that we did make an offer for Amare but it didn't include LaMarcus.

 

[Ed O]

A little birdie told me that we did make an offer for Amare but it didn't include LaMarcus.

Getting Amare without moving Aldridge would be great. We could then move with Amare or Aldridge for a stud PG or SF over the summer... or move one of them for a player like Rubio.

Ed O.

 

[Miksaid]

A little birdie told me that we did make an offer for Amare but it didn't include LaMarcus.

Little birdies can't talk you liar.